Three quick Noah's Ark questions

[JacksBratt]

Its always about evidence. Christ's miracles are evidenced by His deity and His deity is evidenced by our Holy Spirit and His resurrection and His resurrection is evidenced by the church etc.

That is all circular...

There is no evidence of a global flood, 6,000 years old universe or 6 literal days of creation. Actually, plenty both logical (millions of species on one ark, civilizations without any flood interruption etc) and natural evidence (geology, paleontology, cosmology etc) against it.

Thats why.

There is no evidence or scientific explanation for Christ walking on water or healing lepers or any of these.... anymore than there is for the creation of the universe or the flood....

If it is His deity that is the proof.. then you must accept it all because Christ is the one who created everything.

 

[solid_core]

That is all circular...

Do you know what circular means? It means that you end where you started.

There is no evidence or scientific explanation for Christ walking on water or healing lepers or any of these.... anymore than there is for the creation of the universe or the flood....

If it is His deity that is the proof.. then you must accept it all because Christ is the one who created everything.

There is also no evidence against it. But plenty of evidence against the literal reading of Genesis.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Friends how many are aware that Josephus the Jewish Historian in Jesus time records that it was common in those days for folks to make pilgrimage to the Ark and he even mentioned the name of the tribe who were appointed it's guardians...

 

[JacksBratt]

Do you know what circular means? It means that you end where you started.



There is also no evidence against it. But plenty of evidence against the literal reading of Genesis.

Like I stated... Christ mentions the six days of creation. He also mentions the flood.. The bible states that it killed "all" life on the earth, that breathed air....

If Christ lied, we can believe nothing He said, when it pertains to the salvation of our soul.

I don't care if the "Scientists" don't admit to evidence of a global flood. Many do.
You speak of "evidence against" things.. You cannot prove a negative.

The bible states that it happened... deny that and you deny that the bible is the word of God.

Are you saying that man is more knowledgeable than the creator that told us how things happened?

Are you saying that God could not have done it?

 

[Emmylouwho]

Friends how many are aware that Josephus the Jewish Historian in Jesus time records that it was common in those days for folks to make pilgrimage to the Ark and he even mentioned the name of the tribe who were appointed it's guardians...

I did not know that.

 

[JacksBratt]

Friends how many are aware that Josephus the Jewish Historian in Jesus time records that it was common in those days for folks to make pilgrimage to the Ark and he even mentioned the name of the tribe who were appointed it's guardians...

There are a couple of books that hold the accounts of historical events that parallel the bible... Great information.. that many will dismiss.

 

[ewq1938]

It does say that every being on the earth, that breaths through it's nostrils (has lungs or breaths air above water) died... That's "EVERY" being in the world.

It doesn't automatically mean that. It can also mean "every being on the LAND" which is not the entire planet but a localized area. That is the most common meaning of erets.

 

[Rick Groomes]

Where did he build it, where did it land, and when did it happen?

Thank you for posting this question! Seems you got quite a discussion going. I really made me thing and I like that!

 

[JacksBratt]

It doesn't automatically mean that.

Really? What, then, does it mean?

It can also mean "every being on the LAND" which is not the entire planet but a localized area. That is the most common meaning of erets.

OK, so you answered my question in the second half of your post..

I don't know if I can agree... God makes it pretty clear what was killed. Take a look. He's pretty clear on this subject. He goes into a bit of detail and ends with the only things alive being what was on the ark....:

Genesis 7:21-23

And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:


All in whose nostrils [was] the breath of life, of all that [was] in the dry [land], died.


And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained [alive], and they that [were] with him in the ark.
But, I have seen this before... Solid, simple, descriptive words used to describe an event.. by the creator Himself and author of the bible.

Yet.... men believe men..... over God. Why? Because men are proud and arrogant... they think that the created knows more than He who created them.

Another scripture tells of the result of this arrogance:

1 Corinthians 3:19 King James Version (KJV)

19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

This passage even leans toward a foreshadowing of the foolishness of evolution...IMO.

Romans 1:20-23 King James Version (KJV)
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

 

[JacksBratt]

It doesn't automatically mean that. It can also mean "every being on the LAND" which is not the entire planet but a localized area. That is the most common meaning of erets.

I am glad to see that you are a republican, however.... Kudos.

 

[ewq1938]

OK, so you answered my question in the second half of your post..

I don't know if I can agree... God makes it pretty clear what was killed. Take a look. He's pretty clear on this subject.

It seems clear especially when the view was held all one's life and others through history but that doesn't make it correct.

Here's the same word used:

Gen 4:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

"thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth" same word used in relation to the flood yet we know Cain wasn't driven into outer space before coming back to the Earth. He only was driven out of the localized area of land where he lived with his family. So "Earth" does not automatically mean the whole planet. Part of the Earth was flooded and ALL died in that flood but it's all of a part not all of all.

A non-global flood is very supportable by scripture. We understand why global flood supporters believe as they do, the language at first glance seems to support the idea but there are clues that show there is reason to see it as non-global.

 

[Emmylouwho]

It seems clear especially when the view was held all one's life and others through history but that doesn't make it correct.

Here's the same word used:

Gen 4:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

"thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth" same word used in relation to the flood yet we know Cain wasn't driven into outer space before coming back to the Earth. He only was driven out of the localized area of land where he lived with his family. So "Earth" does not automatically mean the whole planet. Part of the Earth was flooded and ALL died in that flood but it's all of a part not all of all.

A non-global flood is very supportable by scripture. We understand why global flood supporters believe as they do, the language at first glance seems to support the idea but there are clues that show there is reason to see it as non-global.

Does this sound non-global?

21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

 

[ewq1938]

Does this sound non-global?

I think what is meant is more important than how it "sounds". It "sounds" like Cain was driven into outer space too but we know he wasn't so the language used can mean non-global.

We know the Ark wasn't big enough for all the animals around the world and we also know that many giants were still alive after the flood further proving the flood wasn't global nor did it kill all life. It was a localized flood meant to kill most of the giants in the localized area where Noah lived ie: his "world".

 

[Steven Beck]

The flood wasn't global so whoever lived in Australia were unaffected by the flood.

Sorry to bust your bubble but scripture says every living land creature died in the flood. Maybe you should read scripture occasionally.

 

[Erik Nelson]

There were settlements in the Negev and Sinai during the Early Bronze Age. These were abandoned with the onset of dryer conditions.

The monsoons in the Indus River Valley near the Indian Ocean were much greater than any rain in Iraq. Dams built in Turkey and Iran along the Euphrates and Tigris and their tributaries have interrupted flood patterns that were observed in the 19th century.

the biblical account of endless rain sounds just like a modern monsoon season

a freak monsoon season somehow extending from India to Iraq doesn't really sound so fantastical

turned an annual flood into a super flood?

 

[ewq1938]

Sorry to bust your bubble but scripture says every living land creature died in the flood.

Then how were there giants alive after the flood?

Maybe you should read scripture occasionally.

Maybe lets have a conversation without personal insults?

 

[Carl Emerson]

The mountains of Ararat are very high. From a rational point of view for a boat to end up there would have to mean a global flood...

 

[ewq1938]

The mountains of Ararat are very high. From a rational point of view for a boat to end up there would have to mean a global flood...

The mountains of Ararat are various sizes in height. We don't know which one it rested upon. We also can't say even how high up the Ark rested. This is a theory that cannot be proven without knowing exactly how high the Ark was.

 

[coffee4u]

It "sounds" like Cain was driven into outer space

Lol, where does the Bible make it sound like that?

 

[ewq1938]

Lol, where does the Bible make it sound like that?

See post 191