Three quick Noah's Ark questions

[Carl Emerson]

Gen 7:19

The water prevailed more and more upon the earth so that all the high mountains everywhere under the heavens were covered.

 

[solid_core]

Like I stated... Christ mentions the six days of creation. He also mentions the flood.. The bible states that it killed "all" life on the earth, that breathed air....

If Christ lied, we can believe nothing He said, when it pertains to the salvation of our soul.

I don't care if the "Scientists" don't admit to evidence of a global flood. Many do.
You speak of "evidence against" things.. You cannot prove a negative.

The bible states that it happened... deny that and you deny that the bible is the word of God.

Are you saying that man is more knowledgeable than the creator that told us how things happened?

Are you saying that God could not have done it?

Christ mentions it because its in the Scriptures. He did not say "it happened in real life exactly as is in the Scriptures".

Biblical stories are there for a reason. The reason is not to teach us science, though.

Similarly today, in our culture, we use fictional works like Matrix, Star Wars or Marvel/DC universe and reference it in our life and talks even when we know its just a movie. But we use the concept it presents.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Evidence for a Flood | Science | Smithsonian

 

[Carl Emerson]

From Josephus...

The Armenians call this place (Apobaterion) The Place of Descent; for the ark being saved in that place, its remains are shown there by the inhabitants to this day.

The Antiquities of the Jews 1.3.5 (92b)


Now all the writers of barbarian histories make mention of this flood and of this ark; among whom is Berosus the Chaldean; for when he is describing the circumstances of the flood, he goes on thus: – “It is said there is still some part of this ship in Armenia, at the mountain of the Cordyaeans; and that some people carry off pieces of the bitumen, which they take away and use chiefly as amulets for the averting of mischiefs.” Hieronymus the Egyptian, also, who wrote the Phoenician Antiquities, and Mnaseas, and a great many more, make mention of the same. Nay, Nicolaus of Damascas, in his ninety-sixth book, hath a particular relation about them, where he speaks thus: – “There is a great mountain in Armenia, over Minyas, called Baris, upon which it is reported that many who fled at the time of the Deluge were saved; and that one who was carried in an ark came on shore upon the top of it; and that the remains of the timber were a great while preserved. This might be the man about whom Moses, the legislator of the Jews wrote.”

The Antiquities of the Jews 1.3.6

 

[Carl Emerson]

180 A.D. Theophilus of Antioch wrote: "And of the Ark, the remains are to this day to be seen in the Arabian mountains"

4th cent A.D. Bishop Epiphanius of Salamis: "Do you seriously suppose that we are unable to prove our point, when even to this day the remains of Noah's Ark are shown in the country of the Kurds? Why, were one to search diligently, doubtless one would also find at the foot of the mountain the remnants of the altar where Noah, on leaving the Ark, tarried to offer clean and fatly animals as a sacrifice to the Lord God"

4th cent A.D. John Chrysostom: Do not the mountains of Armenia testify to it, where the Ark rested? And are not the remains of the Ark preserved there to this very day for our admonition"

610 A.D. Isidore of Seville: "Ararat is a mountain in Armenia, where the historians testify that the Ark came to rest after the Flood. So even to this day wood remains of it are to be seen there".

620 A.D. Byzantine Emperor Heraclius. The historian Elmacin recorded in the 13th Century that in the 7th Century the Byzantine Emperor Heraclius had climbed Jabal Judi in order to see the place where the Ark had landed.

628 A.D. Archbishop Isidore of Seville drew the drawing below in 628 A.D.

1245 A.D. Jehan Haithon, a monk wrote: "Upon the snows of Ararat a black speck is visible at all times: this is Noah's Ark"

1269 A.D. The explorer Marco Polo reported finding the Ark after a 3-day climb in the "snowy reaches of a very high mountain. At the bottom of a summit, not at the peak."

1633 A.D. Adam Olearius wrote: "The Armenians, and the Persians themselves, are of opinion that there are still upon the said mountain some remainders of the Ark, but that Time hath so hardened them, that they seem absolutely petrify'd. At Schamachy in Media Persia, we were shown a Crosse of a black and hard Wood, which the Inhabitants affirmed to have been made of the Wood of the Ark".

1829 A.D. Frederick Parrot reported seeing wood relics made from the Ark at the base of Mt. Ararat in a cathedral that was destroyed in an earthquake in 1840.

1856 A.D. This is an unsubstantiated account. The newspaper story has never been found.
In 1952, Harold Williams wrote a story told by Haji Yearam, an Armenian Christian, in 1916. According to the story, Yearam as a boy helped guide three English scientists to the ark in 1856. Upon finding the ark sticking out of a glacier near the summit, the scientists, "vile men who did not believe in the Bible," flew into a rage and tried futilely to destroy it. Then they took an oath to keep the discovery a secret and murder anyone who revealed it. About 1918, Williams saw a newspaper article giving a scientist's deathbed confession, which corroborated Yearam's story.

Haji said; "It was an unusually hot summer, so the snow and glaciers had melted more than usual. The Armenians were very reticent to undertake any expedition to the Ark because they feared God's displeasure, but the father of Haji thought that possibly the time had come when God wanted the world to know the Ark was still there and he wanted to prove to those atheists that the Bible story of the Flood and the Ark is true.

"They went inside the Ark and did considerable exploring. It was divided up into many floors and stages and compartments and had bars like animal cages off today. The whole structure was covered with a varnish or lacquer that was very thick and strong, both outside and inside the ship. The ship was built more like a great and mighty house on the hull of a ship, but without any windows. There was a great doorway of immense size, but the door was missing. The scientists were appalled and dumbfounded and went into a Satanic rage at finding what they hoped to prove nonexistent. They were so angry and mad that they said they would destroy the ship, but the wood was more like stone than any wood we have now. They did not have tools or means to wreck so mighty a ship and had to give up. They did tear out some timbers and tried to burn the wood, but it was so hard it was almost impossible to burn it.

"They held a council, and then took a solemn and fearful death oath. Any man present who would ever breathe a word about what they had found would be tortured and murdered"


1883 A.D. The Turkish government reported that an expedition located the Ark at 14,000 feet and saw animal cages and stalls.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Ed Davis, a US army sergeant based at Hamadan in Iran during World War II, reported that he had climbed Mt. Ararat with his driver's family in 1943. After three days' climbing, the group camped 100 feet above the Ark and was able to look down into it but not to approach closely. According to Davis's description, it had broken into two pieces, which had been pushed some distance apart by glaciers. Its description roughly matched Hagopian's, judging by Elfred Lee's paintings. Lee also interviewed Ed Davis and created a painting based on Davis's descriptions. The structures in the paintings appear to match.

 

[ewq1938]

I like the Ark's face

 

[Lulav]

• Where did he build it?

It is hard to say today for two reasons:

1. Since it was built before the flood the landmarks have changed drastically
2. Soon after the flood the continents split and moved to basically what we see today.
This was in Pelegs day.

• where did it land?

Just above present day Iran in western Turkey.

• and when did it happen?

Adding up the generations from Adam to Noah and then from there to the current era (AD or CE), it was in around 2344bc, give or take. From Creation I believe it was 1656.

 

[Steven Beck]

Then how were there giants alive after the flood?



Maybe lets have a conversation without personal insults?

There was no insult and the giants came from Canaan's lineage probably from a faulty gene from Ham's wife.

 

[Anguspure]

Did Noah descend from the Abel line or the Cain line?

Seth, the replacement.
Adam-Seth-Enosh-Kenan. Mahalel-Jared-Enoch-Methuselah-Lamech-Noah
Man-Appointed-Mortal-Sorrow. The blessed God-Shall come down-Teaching-His death will bring-Thoese who mourn-Peace.

 

[Anguspure]

I guess Christ's death and resurrection could also be an "interpretation of various passages"... eh?

The bible is pretty clear that, even if you don't think that it was global... it states that all beings that breath air, died..... So... If you want the people of Australia to be those with gills or other respiration... that's up to you.

Conversely: “Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men.

If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion.”

— St. Augustine, De Genesi ad litteram (The Literal Meaning of Genesis) Vol 1 Ch 19

 

[JacksBratt]

I think what is meant is more important than how it "sounds". It "sounds" like Cain was driven into outer space too but we know he wasn't so the language used can mean non-global.

We know the Ark wasn't big enough for all the animals around the world and we also know that many giants were still alive after the flood further proving the flood wasn't global nor did it kill all life. It was a localized flood meant to kill most of the giants in the localized area where Noah lived ie: his "world".

The giants showed up after the flood because it was only Noah and his line that was "perfect in his generations". Noah had to pick three women for his sons. These women were not "perfect in their generations". Therefore the nephilime gene was in them..

Canaan was the one who was cursed by Noah... From his line came the giants.

Genetically speaking, all the "kinds" of animals were on the ark.

You are a Christian, I pray some day that God opens your eyes to the methods of the biblical account to such an extent that you can see the deception of Satan and his desire for you to cling to the words of mere men... men who hate God.. and their "science" that contradicts the truth of the history of this world.

 

[JacksBratt]

Christ mentions it because its in the Scriptures. He did not say "it happened in real life exactly as is in the Scriptures".

Biblical stories are there for a reason. The reason is not to teach us science, though.

Similarly today, in our culture, we use fictional works like Matrix, Star Wars or Marvel/DC universe and reference it in our life and talks even when we know its just a movie. But we use the concept it presents.

So, God wrote all this down, had men pen these stories... for entertainment?

Now that's funny...

The scriptures are true. The story of Christ is woven throughout the history of the OT.

Have you not heard "In the OT Christ concealed, In the New Christ revealed"?

All of these are true facts... To say otherwise is only following the foolishness of the created trying to say they know more than their creator..


AGAIN, I will ask... Could God not do these things?

 

[Steven Beck]

the biblical account of endless rain sounds just like a modern monsoon season

a freak monsoon season somehow extending from India to Iraq doesn't really sound so fantastical

turned an annual flood into a super flood?

The Earth's crust split and the split can be seen today which goes through the middle of the Atlantic ocean (The Atlantic Rift) and middle of the Pacific ocean. The earth's crust floated (yes floated) on water above the mantle. So when the crust split we now have super heated water being forced upwards and into the atmosphere.Of course this turned into steam somewhere on its journey through the crust. As the now super heated steam traveled upwards through the atmosphere it naturally started cooling and turned into rain and this process lasted 40 days. The force of the crust being split apart created the tectonic plates. There is a brilliant paper written by a geologist explaining it all but I can't find it unfortunately.

 

[Steven Beck]

See post 191

Some people have very strange interpretations don't they. It is a phrase meaning he was exiled not going into space. (facepalm).

 

[dqhall]

the biblical account of endless rain sounds just like a modern monsoon season

a freak monsoon season somehow extending from India to Iraq doesn't really sound so fantastical

turned an annual flood into a super flood?

There are Mesopotamian stories about God delivering a family from a flood by giving advance warning. In these stories it rained a long time before the water rose. Monsoonal flooding was common along the Indus River in Pakistan near the border of India. The flood story is Mesopotamian, but I wondered if it were from a place to the east. Iraq is a desert.

 

[JacksBratt]

The Earth's crust split and the split can be seen today which goes through the middle of the Atlantic ocean (The Atlantic Rift) and middle of the Pacific ocean. The earth's crust floated (yes floated) on water above the mantle. So when the crust split we now have super heated water being forced upwards and into the atmosphere.Of course this turned into steam somewhere on its journey through the crust. As the now super heated steam traveled upwards through the atmosphere it naturally started cooling and turned into rain and this process lasted 40 days. The force of the crust being split apart created the tectonic plates. There is a brilliant paper written by a geologist explaining it all but I can't find it unfortunately.

Walter Brown did a great amount of research on this. He has a "Hydroplate theory" Which is support for YEC which means it gets hammered and rebuked by anyone with any other Darwinian, evolutionary mindset

 

[solid_core]

So, God wrote all this down, had men pen these stories... for entertainment?

Now that's funny...

The scriptures are true. The story of Christ is woven throughout the history of the OT.

Have you not heard "In the OT Christ concealed, In the New Christ revealed"?

All of these are true facts... To say otherwise is only following the foolishness of the created trying to say they know more than their creator..


AGAIN, I will ask... Could God not do these things?

God did not write it. Ancient men did. In their language, according to their culture and in their standard way of writing.

The question is not "Could God do...", but "Did God do literally what is written in a mythological/symbolical text?" Science says "no".

 

[JacksBratt]

God did not write it. Ancient men did. In their language, according to their culture and in their standard way of writing.

The question is not "Could God do...", but "Did God do literally what is written in a mythological/symbolical text?" Science says "no".

God doesn't care about "science".

Also, God did write it. He inspired men to pen what He wanted them to say. The original text of the bible is a myriad of codes and puzzles even beyond the literal words that are written down. The deeper you want to look, the more will be unraveled and revealed.

Not only that, but most of the Torah was dictated by God to Moses..

One more thing. The history of the creation and early events were not passed down from generation to generation as some believe.
Adam was alive when Lamech was alive and Lamech knew Shem. Shem was alive to know Jacob..

So, as you can see, this was not some story passed down my myth and campfire lore... It was told by those that witnessed it to those who are much closer in history.

 

[solid_core]

God doesn't care about "science".

Nonsense. God cares about everything. Science is just discovering God's natural laws with some incorporated rules of self-correction and logic.

Also, God did write it.

No. Biblical writers had their own personality, inspiration is not dictation. They used their own vocabulary, cultural themes and their standard way of writing - mythology. They did not care about science, not God.

Adam was alive when Lamech was alive and Lamech knew Shem....

Yes, in this old Jewish story. But as we know, genealogies in those days were never precise, ancient nations (Sumer, Babylonia, Egypt, China, India etc) gave their kings and patriarchs huge (and virtual) life spans.