"This is the Beginning of the End of the Pandemic" - NJ Hydroxycholoroquine Study a "Game Changer"

[Subduction Zone]

It's posted in response to a thread you started about the no no no it's not effect thread...you can see a sample of yesterdays accumulated news sources on your own thread.

Yes, and they are all anecdotal. No real evidence.

 

[Zanting]

Oh my! I love it when people don't know what they posted.

You have an unfounded belief that HCQ is some sort of cure. Right now that is only supported by bad statistics and worse reasoning. It can cause a run on the drug which could not only possibly harm those taking it, it could also greatly harm those that need it.

Are you referring to the positive language surrounding HCQ...and all the data that supports it??? Is that what you mean by approach.

 

[Zanting]

Yes, and they are all anecdotal. No real evidence.

Indeed...according to some experts...but not all...why is that???

 

[ZNP]

Yes, and they are all anecdotal. No real evidence.

Anecdotal is real evidence, it is simply not the most reliable evidence.

A doctor tries this on sick patients, they get better, surely he should report that. The experience of the doctor and the patients is definitely something that would be recorded as "evidence", not proof, but certainly warrants further study and perhaps experimentation and clinical trials by other doctors.

It may not be the best study, it may not be "proof", but you should never make "the best" the enemy of "better".

Now if you had many, many anecdotal reports that using this treatment was harmful I could see the alarm in it. But without that you have no real evidence to be alarmed.

 

[sfs]

Anecdotal is real evidence, it is simply not the most reliable evidence.

That depends. Sometimes it's no evidence at all.

A doctor tries this on sick patients, they get better, surely he should report that.

Not if lots of other patients also get better. What you want is evidence that a treatment makes it more likely that the patient will get better. Observing that some patients got better by itself doesn't tell you that. Do you think a doctor should report that, say, some sick patients who were facing east got better?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Are you referring to the positive language surrounding HCQ...and all the data that supports it??? Is that what you mean by approach.

That appears to be just hype and hope. There is no real support.

Please do not treat medicine like magic.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Anecdotal is real evidence, it is simply not the most reliable evidence.

A doctor tries this on sick patients, they get better, surely he should report that. The experience of the doctor and the patients is definitely something that would be recorded as "evidence", not proof, but certainly warrants further study and perhaps experimentation and clinical trials by other doctors.

It may not be the best study, it may not be "proof", but you should never make "the best" the enemy of "better".

Now if you had many, many anecdotal reports that using this treatment was harmful I could see the alarm in it. But without that you have no real evidence to be alarmed.

We do have evidence of at least one death caused by this. And of course there is the potential harm of unneeded run on the medicine for people that needed it. Did your local grocery stores run out of toilet paper? That should tell you something of human nature.

 

[Zanting]

Anecdotal is real evidence, it is simply not the most reliable evidence.

A doctor tries this on sick patients, they get better, surely he should report that. The experience of the doctor and the patients is definitely something that would be recorded as "evidence", not proof, but certainly warrants further study and perhaps experimentation and clinical trials by other doctors.

It may not be the best study, it may not be "proof", but you should never make "the best" the enemy of "better".

Now if you had many, many anecdotal reports that using this treatment was harmful I could see the alarm in it. But without that you have no real evidence to be alarmed.

So yes...this is exactly how proof is attained that goes beyond anecdotal evidence.

Propose a theory (ie HCQ+ z-pack are an effective treatment for covid-19)
gather evidence (big or small studies, case studies, survey's etc.)
Analyze evidence from these studies.
If theory is significantly supported with replication...it is proof.
And these kinds of studies are being done in many different countires, and all bring evidence forward to provide proof.
As already stated...this data is coming in on a daily bases and is accummulating rapidly providing more and more support for the meds.

And for all those who want more and more and more evidence to claim proof...more and more and more is coming and in the meantimes, there is enough evidence to support it's use as an effective treatment.

 

[wing2000]

No...this has to do with being able to treat my most vulnerable family members who are at a real risk of not overcoming covid-19. It's unfortunate some can only look through the lens of politics...it skews perspective completely...and it's evident that politics is driving the negative narrative and they don't seem to want anyone to think they can help those they love with this treatment.

"It has to do" with the POTUS repeatedly ignoring the advice of his senior expert on the subject at his daily briefings.

I prefer a "narrative" based on science.

 

[Zanting]

That appears to be just hype and hope. There is no real support.

Please do not treat medicine like magic.

That appears to be just hype and hope. There is no real support.

Please do not treat medicine like magic.

Again, evidence has been provided and demonstrated coming in from that wonderful world of science and medicine, from so many countries, from all different studies indicating that HCQ and Z-pack are effective in treating covid-19.

Medicine a toll to cure the ill, magic has noting to do with it.

If you fear it as a treatment...then don't take it.

Other then frontline healthcare workers and/or those participating in studies...Covid-19 medication should only be a perscribed to those at high risk or develop severe symptoms.

 

[Zanting]

"It has to do" with the POTUS repeatedly ignoring the advice of his senior expert on the subject at his daily briefings.

I prefer a "narrative" based on science.

What...??? that makes no sense at all...studies are being conducted all over the world...this isn't about President Trump...it's about a treatment for a "world wide pandemic"...he has nothing to do with any of these studies...he's not a doctor or scientist and he isn't doing their job so why on earth are you making it about him.

The world is shut down, people all over the world are suffering and dying. Doctors and scientist are working day and night to provide the people of the WORLD with treatments...and they are being very successful...using SCIENCE.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So yes...this is exactly how proof is attained that goes beyond anecdotal evidence.

Propose a theory (ie HCQ+ z-pack are an effective treatment for covid-19)
gather evidence (big or small studies, case studies, survey's etc.)
Analyze evidence from these studies.
If theory is significantly supported with replication...it is proof.
And these kinds of studies are being done in many different countires, and all bring evidence forward to provide proof.
As already stated...this data is coming in on a daily bases and is accummulating rapidly providing more and more support for the meds.

And for all those who want more and more and more evidence to claim proof...more and more and more is coming and in the meantimes, there is enough evidence to support it's use as an effective treatment.

Not quite. One tries to refute it as well. The successes tend to be in people with a high chance to get better. Test it on an at risk group and see if there is a statistical change. That is a faster way to test it. That is what happened in the example I linked. It did not help.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Again, evidence has been provided and demonstrated coming in from that wonderful world of science and medicine, from so many countries, from all different studies indicating that HCQ and Z-pack are effective in treating covid-19.

Medicine a toll to cure the ill, magic has noting to do with it.

If you fear it as a treatment...then don't take it.

Other then frontline healthcare workers and/or those participating in studies...Covid-19 medication should only be a perscribed to those at high risk or develop severe symptoms.

No, weak and cherry picked examples are really not evidence. And you are treating this as magic. I can show you how:

Explain how HCQ works to fight off the virus.

 

[trunks2k]

Heh. My wife just came downstairs complaining about all the patients she's talked to this morning asking her to prescribe them hydroxycholoroquine so they don't get covid19

 

[wing2000]

What...??? that makes no sense at all...studies are being conducted all over the world...this isn't about President Trump...it's about a treatment for a "world wide pandemic"...he has nothing to do with any of these studies...he's not a doctor or scientist and he isn't doing their job so why on earth are you making it about him.

The world is shut down, people all over the world are suffering and dying. Doctors and scientist are working day and night to provide the people of the WORLD with treatments...and they are being very successful...using SCIENCE.

Can you explain why the POTUS is misrepresenting just one potential treatment -- repeatedly for several days?

Can you explain why the President would not let Dr Fauci answer a direct question yesterday?

Anthony Fauci was asked his thoughts on the effectiveness of the anti-malaria drug in treating coronavirus patients, and President Donald Trump interrupted before the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases could answer.

“He’s answered that question 15 times,” said Trump, who had spent much of the news conference touting the drug's potential.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/06/coronavirus-trump-interrupts-fauci-hydroxychloroquine-question/2952931001/?utm_source=azcentral-Arizona Politics Now&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=baseline&utm_term=hero

 

[Zanting]

Not quite. One tries to refute it as well. The successes tend to be in people with a high chance to get better. Test it on an at risk group and see if there is a statistical change. That is a faster way to test it. That is what happened in the example I linked. It did not help.

Actually...yes quite...that is the scientific method no matter what the hypothesis is...the fastest way to test it, is to use it...which is what is happening all over the world now....with people recovering from the most severe symptoms in less than 24 hours.

So where is all this contradictory evidence you have to support your claim...much has been provided to support HCQ as an effective treatment...even for people with underlying health conditions...so where is all the opposing evidence...and are those studies comparable sample wise?

 

[Zanting]

No, weak and cherry picked examples are really not evidence. And you are treating this as magic. I can show you how:

Explain how HCQ works to fight off the virus.

Nothing cherry picked at all...it's accumulative evidence that provides proof.

The only cherry picking going are those trying to find evidence to the contrary, which from the ones I've seen don't compare because they are modeled very differently and aimed for other results entirerly.

For the most part, those studies do support the findings already supporting HCQ+ treatment in that they have the greatest success when used as soon as more severe symptoms arise. Furthermore, and as already pointed out...people who take HCQ for Lupus are not gettig sick...and those who simply took HCQ are not getting sick.

So as you can see, (unless you don`t want to) there is more than sufficient evidence to support the safe use of this treatment for covid-19.

 

[Zanting]

Can you explain why the POTUS is misrepresenting just one potential treatment -- repeatedly for several days?

Can you explain why the President would not let Dr Fauci answer a direct question yesterday?

Anthony Fauci was asked his thoughts on the effectiveness of the anti-malaria drug in treating coronavirus patients, and President Donald Trump interrupted before the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases could answer.

“He’s answered that question 15 times,” said Trump, who had spent much of the news conference touting the drug's potential.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/06/coronavirus-trump-interrupts-fauci-hydroxychloroquine-question/2952931001/?utm_source=azcentral-Arizona Politics Now&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=baseline&utm_term=hero

I don`t care one iota what kind of politcal slant or twist anyone wants to put on this treatment...the evidence is there for those who choose to acknowledge it and seek it out. Many of us have loved ones who may be vulnerable and at risk.

 

[wing2000]

I don`t care one iota what kind of politcal slant or twist anyone wants to put on this treatment...the evidence is there for those who choose to acknowledge it and seek it out. Many of us have loved ones who may be vulnerable and at risk.

I care. My spouse relies on this medication for her existing condition. Once more, she is also at greater risk.

So here is my message to the President: Shut up and defer medical treatment questions to your experts.

 

[Zanting]

I care. My spouse relies on this medication for her existing condition. Once more, she is also at greater risk.

So here is my message to the President: Shut up and defer medical treatment questions to your experts.

Those taking this medication altready are NOT getting sick...and it`s been treid as a preventative medication and those who have taken it are NOT getting sick...so you wife is very fortunate to be on this medication.

So here`s my message to you...stop spreading fear and dismay and look at the facts instead of politcal slants and twists.