"This is the Beginning of the End of the Pandemic" - NJ Hydroxycholoroquine Study a "Game Changer"

[Ophiolite]

I know there are lots of studies (albeit not hundreds of thousands) underway studying lots of drugs, including the ones in question. What I'm asking is which studies have reported results that lead to the conclusion in your last sentence.

Sadly, I'm not sure everyone understands that an informed and measured question merits an informed and measured answer.

 

[Zanting]

I know there are lots of studies (albeit not hundreds of thousands) underway studying lots of drugs, including the ones in question. What I'm asking is which studies have reported results that lead to the conclusion in your last sentence.

Excuse me, but your tag team friend already explained that you are a disease expert...so that means you know, or at least should know that these drugs are proving effective. It appears you and your friend would rather spread fear and dismay over hope and recovery...like others who seem to feel the need to promote the negative narrative associated with this very effective treatment...instead of all the positive results that have been accumulating and reported...the positive, full of hope and promise narrative around this "unofficial cure".

 

[ZNP]

Excuse me, but your tag team friend already explained that you are a disease expert...so that means you know, or at least should know that these drugs are proving effective. It appears you and your friend would rather spread fear and dismay over hope and recovery...like others who seem to feel the need to promote the negative narrative associated with this very effective treatment...instead of all the positive results that have been accumulating and reported...the positive, full of hope and promise narrative around this "unofficial cure".

I think the problem is simply the language being used. The fact that one person recovered is anecdotal evidence, but not the gold standard of a double blind placebo study. By all means doctors need to use every tool at their disposal to treat their patients and if they do have success they need to publish that so that others can also learn from that. However, these successes should not in any way be characterized as a cure until the appropriate studies have been done.

Also, as promising as some of these drugs may be there is always a number of dangers to avoid. Will people take the medicine unnecessarily? Will medicine that is proven to help certain people be used up and become unavailable because of the herd mentality? Are these claims of a cure the claims of a snake oil salesman?

 

[essentialsaltes]

While discussing the latest on hydroxychloroquine this weekend, an exasperated [trade adviser Peter] Navarro lashed out at Dr. Anthony Fauci, one of the advisers who has urged caution about the drug, a person familiar with the meeting told CNN.

Navarro had brought a stack of paperwork with him into the Situation Room on the drug, arguing it was proof that it could work to treat coronavirus, which Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert, disagreed with because it was not data.

"What are you talking about?" Fauci asked -- a question that set Navarro off.

Navarro claimed he was qualified to engage and disagree with Fauci on coronavirus treatment despite not being a medical doctor.

"Doctors disagree about things all the time. My qualifications in terms of looking at the science is that I'm a social scientist," Navarro said. "I have a Ph. D. And I understand how to read statistical studies, whether it's in medicine, the law, economics or whatever."

Experts do not suggest taking hydroxychloroquine as a preventive for Covid-19 because there is no evidence yet to suggest it protects against contracting the virus.

"They say take it," said Trump, without citing any experts or sources. "I'm not looking at it one way or the other, but we want to get out of this. If it does work, it would be a shame if we didn't do it early. But we have some very good signs."

Trump also said the US Food and Drug Administration gave hydroxychloroquine "rapid approval," but in fact, the FDA has not approved it for the treatment of Covid-19.

 

[iluvatar5150]

But Rudy tweeted about it. That is almost as good as Trump tweeting about it.

Wow, I'd completely forgotten about Rudy in all of this.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Wow, I'd completely forgotten about Rudy in all of this.

Late last night I read in the Washington Post that it appears that Rudy is Trump's science advisor. A lot of Trump's statements mirror Rudy's tweets.

 

[sfs]

Excuse me, but your tag team friend already explained that you are a disease expert...so that means you know, or at least should know that these drugs are proving effective.

Well, I can't know that until I see the evidence. I haven't seen good evidence elsewhere, and you haven't provided any. "If you were a real scientist you'd know it was true" is bluster, not evidence.

It appears you and your friend would rather spread fear and dismay over hope and recovery...like others who seem to feel the need to promote the negative narrative associated with this very effective treatment...instead of all the positive results that have been accumulating and reported...the positive, full of hope and promise narrative around this "unofficial cure".

I'd love for this treatment to be highly effective -- I'd really like to be able to go back to work and go to the grocery store without fear of dying, for example. But I'm not accustomed to believing things just because I'd like them to be true. So far all I've seen is two or three really crappy studies that say it works and one equally crappy study that says it doesn't.

 

[ZNP]

Well, I can't know that until I see the evidence. I haven't seen good evidence elsewhere, and you haven't provided any. "If you were a real scientist you'd know it was true" is bluster, not evidence.

I'd love for this treatment to be highly effective -- I'd really like to be able to go back to work and go to the grocery store without fear of dying, for example. But I'm not accustomed to believing things just because I'd like them to be true. So far all I've seen is two or three really crappy studies that say it works and one equally crappy study that says it doesn't.

Your survival of an infection depends on the viral lode as well as your underlying health condition and treatments available at the hospital. They are investigating a number of promising treatments, and practicing social distancing will reduce the viral lode if you do get infected. So be at peace, the situation is improving every day.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Late last night I read in the Washington Post that it appears that Rudy is Trump's science advisor. A lot of Trump's statements mirror Rudy's tweets.

oh boy

 

[Ophiolite]

oh boy

In the country of the blind, the guy with the megaphone is King.

 

[Zanting]

I think the problem is simply the language being used. The fact that one person recovered is anecdotal evidence, but not the gold standard of a double blind placebo study. By all means doctors need to use every tool at their disposal to treat their patients and if they do have success they need to publish that so that others can also learn from that. However, these successes should not in any way be characterized as a cure until the appropriate studies have been done.

Also, as promising as some of these drugs may be there is always a number of dangers to avoid. Will people take the medicine unnecessarily? Will medicine that is proven to help certain people be used up and become unavailable because of the herd mentality? Are these claims of a cure the claims of a snake oil salesman?

It is all about the language...you are absolutely correct...one negative, promoting fear and anxiety, and no no no...this treatment isn't "proven" to be effective...and another that's positive promoting hope and a treatment that is proving effective in many different countries, with data to back up those claims.

No snake oil cure. It's already being stated as an "unofficial cure" with many positive case by case samples, studies completed and ongoing research in over 30 countries coming up with even more consistent data positive...and it's accumulating daily as more and more patients are being treated and studies complete.

Indeed, it's been acknowledged that people with Lupus who have been taking hydroxycholoroquine aren't getting sick, nor are others who have taken it. This opened another area of research to determine if it can in fact be used as a preventative drug, especially for front line workers and those at risk.

Those promoting hope recognize that reliable data and a concenses from 1000's of doctors from numerous countries stating that hydrocholorquine with z-packshould be used as a treatment for covid-19, as soon as symptoms warrent it's application. Furthermore, data comes in everyday because more and more individuasl are treated with these meds.

It seems those who promote negativity keep making the claim that this medication isn't effective. I have yet to see any clinical studies that support that claim. The only real danger is that the drug will be hoarded. For example, a doctor in Utah perscribed these meds to one of his patients only to have the pharmacy deny the perscription for that patient.

It's also very apparent who uses which language, here and elsewhere.

 

[Zanting]

Well, I can't know that until I see the evidence. I haven't seen good evidence elsewhere, and you haven't provided any. "If you were a real scientist you'd know it was true" is bluster, not evidence.

I'd love for this treatment to be highly effective -- I'd really like to be able to go back to work and go to the grocery store without fear of dying, for example. But I'm not accustomed to believing things just because I'd like them to be true. So far all I've seen is two or three really crappy studies that say it works and one equally crappy study that says it doesn't.

I'm so sorry are one of the less than 1% of the general population at high risk then...but you can opt for this very effective treatment...if you wish.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It is all about the language...you are absolutely correct...one negative, promoting fear and anxiety, and no no no...this treatment isn't "proven" to be effective...and another that's positive promoting hope and a treatment that is proving effective in many different countries, with data to back up those claims.

No snake oil cure. It's already being stated as an "unofficial cure" with many positive case by case samples, studies completed and ongoing research in over 30 countries coming up with even more consistent data positive...and it's accumulating daily as more and more patients are being treated and studies complete.

Indeed, it's been acknowledged that people with Lupus who have been taking hydroxycholoroquine aren't getting sick, nor are others who have taken it. This opened another area of research to determine if it can in fact be used as a preventative drug, especially for front line workers and those at risk.

Those promoting hope recognize that reliable data and a concenses from 1000's of doctors from numerous countries stating that hydrocholorquine with z-packshould be used as a treatment for covid-19, as soon as symptoms warrent it's application. Furthermore, data comes in everyday because more and more individuasl are treated with these meds.

It seems those who promote negativity keep making the claim that this medication isn't effective. I have yet to see any clinical studies that support that claim. The only real danger is that the drug will be hoarded. For example, a doctor in Utah perscribed these meds to one of his patients only to have the pharmacy deny the perscription for that patient.

It's also very apparent who uses which language, here and elsewhere.

No, those appear to be just bad statistics. Where I live I could find all sorts of "cures" using that approach. I don't know anyone that eats bacon that has caught the disease so bacon is a cure.

The problem with this approach is that it can cause on a run on a product needed by some and of no benefit to others. Tell us how HCQ works on a virus and we might believe it.

 

[wing2000]

It's also very apparent who uses which language, here and elsewhere.

Yes, Zanting, it's obvious you are pushing a political narrative.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm so sorry are one of the less than 1% of the general population at high risk then...but you can opt for this very effective treatment...if you wish.

Again, where is the evidence that it is effective?

 

[Zanting]

No, those appear to be just bad statistics. Where I live I could find all sorts of "cures" using that approach. I don't know anyone that eats bacon that has caught the disease so bacon is a cure.

The problem with this approach is that it can cause on a run on a product needed by some and of no benefit to others. Tell us how HCQ works on a virus and we might believe it.

What approach???

 

[Zanting]

Yes, Zanting, it's obvious you are pushing a political narrative.

No...this has to do with being able to treat my most vulnerable family members who are at a real risk of not overcoming covid-19. It's unfortunate some can only look through the lens of politics...it skews perspective completely...and it's evident that politics is driving the negative narrative and they don't seem to want anyone to think they can help those they love with this treatment.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What approach???

Oh my! I love it when people don't know what they posted.

You have an unfounded belief that HCQ is some sort of cure. Right now that is only supported by bad statistics and worse reasoning. It can cause a run on the drug which could not only possibly harm those taking it, it could also greatly harm those that need it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No...this has to do with being able to treat my most vulnerable family members who are at a real risk of not overcoming covid-19. It's unfortunate some can only look through the lens of politics...it skews perspective completely...and it's evident that politics is driving the negative narrative and they don't seem to want anyone to think they can help those they love with this treatment.

Nope, you are the only one bringing politics into this.

And it is not a treatment yet.

 

[Zanting]

Again, where is the evidence that it is effective?

It's posted in response to a thread you started about the no no no it's not effect thread...you can see a sample of yesterdays accumulated news sources on your own thread.