Third temple being build in Jerusalem right now

BABerean2

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James proves you are correct in the passage below, by addressing his letter to "the twelve tribes", who were his "brethren" in the "faith".

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

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eclipsenow

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If you accept this, then this is your belief system, not mine. You know more about it than I do.
I think he's asking to explain how this isn't the logical outworking of your belief system? If you believe x, then y follows. Please explain how you hold God to still have certain plans for national Israel and not be genetically universalist.
 
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Timtofly

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I think he's asking to explain how this isn't the logical outworking of your belief system? If you believe x, then y follows. Please explain how you hold God to still have certain plans for national Israel and not be genetically universalist.
Revelation 20:4

Matthew 25:31-33

The sheep and goats are of national Israel.

The parable of the tares and wheat are of all other Gentile Nations.

All these will die. It does not matter about current genetics if the old body is turned to dust and the soul is given a new incorruptible body. Does the soul carry the genetic code that a body is fashioned after, or does God just know what the new body needs to make it Nationally recognizable?

If you go by Genesis 11, God changed people's language to divide them up in groups. How do you think genetics worked after that point? Seems it was the environment and adaption within a group separate from all other groups. But that was old physical genetics.

How does any one know how the new incorruptible body genetics works?

You all are basing things on current standards. Most of the OT prophecies claim a resurrection of some kind that restores. Who God restores will be determined during the Trumpets and Thunders by the earthly ministry of the Lamb on the earth after the Second Coming.

It is not even the Resurrection of the dead in sheol. The angels are present to remove a soul from a living body and place it in the New body in Revelation 20:4. That is why the angels come to earth in the 6th Seal. Revelation 20:4 is the first resurrection of those chosen during the Trumpets and Thunders, and those beheaded, after the sounding of the 7th Trumpet.

The first resurrection has already happened to the OT church at the Cross. The NT church is ongoing. The Second Coming is the living church changed while alive. Those souls in the Trumpets and Thunders are moved through time, because they do not get their incorruptible bodies until after Armageddon.

Those in sheol remain in sheol until the GWT.

You all can fight over who gets restored, but I will stick with Jesus' words. How you define them is up to you. Jesus claims He will be physically present on earth, you claim it is in some kind of courtroom. Some refuse to see that the geography of the world changes at the 6th Seal.

"every mountain and island was moved from its place".
 
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eclipsenow

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Revelation 20:4
Absolutely not anything to do with Israel but is an indication that Amillennialism is correct as this is a symbol of being IN HEAVEN - it's the same thrones we saw in Revelation 4. It's got nothing to do with 'Israel'.

Matthew 25:31-33 The sheep and goats are of national Israel.

.......And you've just undone 2000 years of Christian salvation and gospel theology.

"40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’"
It's about how we live in relationship to our fellow humans reflects where our relationship with Christ is. It's a story of personal salvation, or personal deceit. It's about being ready for when Christ returns - and how we are meant to be living now. He's JUST TOLD us that he will return like the days of Noah - when everyone's partying and planning their futures. He just told us he will return like a thief in the night, like a master whose servants have been both good and bad, like a bridegroom to see if the bridesmaids welcoming party is ready to go into the hall to celebrate, like a financial master with lots of money. These stories ALL focus on our own personal responsibility to be ready, and simply don't really imply anything about Israel or other nations - it's all to do with our own individual status before the Lord.

The only time the 'sheep' might reflect all the non-Jewish people in the world is in John 10 where Jesus has been rebuking the pharisees as the 'hired hands' but the good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. Then Jesus says "“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep." and there you have it - the gospel is going to go out to ALL nations, the kingdom of God is going to make people from every nation, tribe, tongue, language, ethnicity into the one nation, a holy nation, a people belonging to God all gathered around his spiritual Mount Zion.

You all are basing things on current standards. Most of the OT prophecies claim a resurrection of some kind that restores.

No no no! I'm basing my theology and concepts on how the OT is fulfilled AND INTERPRETED by the NT. Jesus and the apostles make the gospel events BIGGER than your gospel because Jesus fulfils all ideas of nation, kingdom, king, priest, temple, sacrifice, law, people, faithfulness, shepherd, leader, salvation, scapegoat, judge, land, etc. And fulfils this in eschatological tension looking forward to the New Heavens and New Earth. EG: Jesus is reigning from heaven right now and defeating Satan and binding him as the gospel goes forth, and God's kingdom is now in all the land's of the earth - but not yet consummated in his physical rule. That will be fulfilled at His Return in the New Heavens and New Earth.

Think of an hourglass where the top is the nation of Israel and then there's the exile and various disciplining and destroying of Israel in the OT and the hourglass - the kingdom of God - shrinks. Then in the middle it becomes ONE MAN, the perfect Israel, Jesus. Then the other side everyone in the kingdom of God - whatever their ethnicity - must be in Jesus. There's neither male nor female, Jew nor Greek, for all are one in Christ now. We're a holy nation because of him.

I don't believe in 'Replacement' theology, as if national Israel was one dispensation of God's deal and then the church is the next deal. I believe in Covenant theology - that it was always one Covenant of Grace that was expressed in National Israel and the sacrificial system in eschatological tension as it looked forward to the New Covenant. The church doesn't 'replace' Israel - it brings Israel into right relationship with her King as was always the plan. It's not like God tried one thing, gave up, and then tried another. Anyone who has read the NT enough times - especially Romans, Hebrews and Galatians, can see the Covenant was all about being fulfilled in the gospel all along.

Anyone that denies this is denying how God was always going to bless the entire world through Abraham and is destroying the gospel itself.
 
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Timtofly

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I don't believe in 'Replacement' theology, as if national Israel was one dispensation of God's deal and then the church is the next deal. I believe in Covenant theology - that it was always one Covenant of Grace that was expressed in National Israel and the sacrificial system in eschatological tension as it looked forward to the New Covenant. The church doesn't 'replace' Israel - it brings Israel into right relationship with her King as was always the plan. It's not like God tried one thing, gave up, and then tried another. Anyone who has read the NT enough times - especially Romans, Hebrews and Galatians, can see the Covenant was all about being fulfilled in the gospel all along.
Is not "expressed" just another form of "dispensation"?

The only thing that changed is the Cross, "got physical". There was a church prior to the Cross and the same church post Cross. How can those humans before the Cross see the church the same way as those since the Cross?

The answer is both had to trust God. Only Jesus' generation were allowed the first hand experience.

The Nation of Israel has little to do with the church. You deny a physical Kingdom either way. Do you deny that at one time the Hebrews thought they had kings? Should David had rejected any notion to make him a king over his people? Was David sinning by accepting a throne?

God said He would set up a kingdom under the name of David. Jesus Christ is the only one of that lineage who is God. But that kingdom was not going to be a spiritual one in a totally different reality. Jesus told His disciples to pray for a coming kingdom, not a coming church or fellowship of believers. The church should still be praying for a coming kingdom. When did Jesus tell the church to stop praying that way?

When is the will of God going to be the only will on earth? It certainly has not been the last 5990 years. King David has been waiting a lot longer than the NT church for God's will to be done on earth. King David was also looking for the restoration of life, as it was, before sin entered the world. The Cross did introduce to the world the means of the end, but the time of the Gentiles would come first. Then the Lord's Day.
 
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BABerean2

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The Nation of Israel has little to do with the church.

Why did Peter address the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2:36, on the Day of Pentecost, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ?

Why did Jesus send His disciples to Israel in Matthew 10:5-7?

What did Paul declare himself an Israelite in Romans 11:1?

Why was the Book of Hebrews written to Hebrew Christians?

Why did James address his letter to "the twelve tribes", who were his "brethren" in the "faith"? (See James 1:1-3.)

.
 
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eclipsenow

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There was a church prior to the Cross and the same church post Cross.
The meeting of God's people occurred in the context of the faithful family of Israel which turned into the faithful theocracy under the Judges of Israel which turned into those faithful to the kingdom of Israel which turned in the exile into those faithful to the memory and prophets of Israel which turned in the NT into those faithful to the TRUE Prophet, Priest, and King of Israel - Jesus. It was always about God's grace to God's chosen people in a covenant of loving care, trusting in God's actions to save humanity. It was always leading to the cross. It was always leading to faith in Jesus - it's just in the OT they didn't know who it was they were trusting in yet.

But now, the physical kingdom is where ever God's people meet in the church - throughout the whole world. Then it will become a physical kingdom when the Lord Jesus returns on Judgement Day which is the New Heavens and New Earth and lasts not for a trifling 1000 years, but forever.

How can those humans before the Cross see the church the same way as those since the Cross?
How can you make a square circle? I've got no idea what point you're trying to make.

The answer is both had to trust God. Only Jesus' generation were allowed the first hand experience.
True, but this leans more towards Covenant theology than whatever you believe in.

The Nation of Israel has little to do with the church.

The MODERN nation of Israel has little to do with the church - unless we're discussing the church within the geographic confines of that rather strange Middle-Eastern nation that fled persecution in WW2 and now runs the largest concentration camps in the world!

But the ANCIENT nation of Israel is the foundation of the church.

HEBREWS 1
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.​

You deny a physical Kingdom either way. Do you deny that at one time the Hebrews thought they had kings? Should David had rejected any notion to make him a king over his people? Was David sinning by accepting a throne?
Now you're just being weird. You're referring to individual random events but they're not contributing to a cohesive argument.

God said He would set up a kingdom under the name of David. Jesus Christ is the only one of that lineage who is God. But that kingdom was not going to be a spiritual one in a totally different reality.
Remember I said the church universal? I did ask you to read the link. You're arguing against theology that is thousands of years old. You simply haven't understood the definitions.

DEFINITION
The universal church is a heavenly and eschatological assembly of everyone—past, present, and future—who belongs to Christ’s new covenant and kingdom. A local church is a mutually-affirming group of new covenant members and kingdom citizens, identified by regularly gathering together in Jesus’ name through preaching the gospel and celebrating the ordinances.
SUMMARY
The New Testament word translated into English as “church” (ekklesia) means assembly, and the New Testament envisions two kinds of assemblies: one in heaven and many on earth. These two kinds are the universal and local church, respectively. To become a Christian is to become a member of the universal church, whereby God raises us up with Christ and seats us in the heavenly place. Yet membership in the heavenly assembly must “show up” on earth, which Christians do by gathering together in the name of Christ through the preaching of the gospel and mutually affirming one another as belonging to him through the ordinances. The heavenly universal church, in other words, creates earthly local churches, which in turn display the universal church. Christians throughout history have sometimes emphasized the local or the universal church to the neglect of the other, but a biblical posture emphasizes both. Such a posture entails pursuing one’s individual discipleship in a local church, but a local church that partners with other churches.

Two Uses of the Word “Church”
What exactly is the church? A brand-new Christian who begins reading the Bible might find him or herself initially confused trying to answer that question. On one page, Jesus says that he will build his church, and that the gates of hell will not prevail against it (Matt. 16:18). The new Christian considers how Jesus uses the word “church” here and rightly conclude that he intends the church to be something broad, comprised of vast numbers of members from around the globe and over centuries of time. Then, a couple pages later, the young believer encounters Jesus telling the disciples they should address unresolved sin by telling it “to the church” (Matt. 18:17). Now he or she wonders if a church isn’t in fact a specific group of people located in one place.

Turning to Paul’s epistles similarly reveals two different uses of the word. In one moment, Paul talks about “coming together as a church,” like it’s an assembly (1Cor. 11:18). In the next he writes that “God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers,” like it is something much bigger (1Cor. 12:28).

What the young believer is discovering, of course, is how the Bible uses the word “church” in both a universal and a local sense.

At the most basic lexical level, the Greek word ekklesia, which English Bibles translate as “church,” means assembly. Yet Scripture employs the word to refer to two kinds of assembly: a heavenly one and an earthly one. Christians refer to these as the universal church and the local church, respectively.

More here....

The Church: Universal and Local - The Gospel Coalition


[/QUOTE]
 
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Timtofly

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Why did Peter address the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2:36, on the Day of Pentecost, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ?

Why did Jesus send His disciples to Israel in Matthew 10:5-7?

What did Paul declare himself an Israelite in Romans 11:1?

Why was the Book of Hebrews written to Hebrew Christians?

Why did James address his letter to "the twelve tribes", who were his "brethren" in the "faith"? (See James 1:1-3.)

.
Why do we give the Gospel to any one?
 
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eclipsenow

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Why do we give the Gospel to any one?
Why don't you answer the questions put to you in real, concrete terms with verses that back them up rather than try and distract all the time?
 
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Timtofly

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Why don't you answer the questions put to you in real, concrete terms with verses that back them up rather than try and distract all the time?
You have symbolized the nation of Israel into the church. The church has some of Isreal in it, but not all of Israel. You have physical Israel that has nothing to do with Adam's fallen nature. Why is Israel not a concrete reality to you? If you do not spiritualize the actual literal OT kingdoms that had nothing whatsoever to do with the church, why would you conflate physical Israel with the church today?

You are demanding God only has one plan. What if God has a thousand plans? Are God's plans just symbolic?
 
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BABerean2

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You have symbolized the nation of Israel into the church. The church has some of Isreal in it, but not all of Israel. You have physical Israel that has nothing to do with Adam's fallen nature. Why is Israel not a concrete reality to you? If you do not spiritualize the actual literal OT kingdoms that had nothing whatsoever to do with the church, why would you conflate physical Israel with the church today?

You are demanding God only has one plan. What if God has a thousand plans? Are God's plans just symbolic?

You seem to be promoting the Two Peoples of God/ Two Plans of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology, which is less than 200 years old.

The original source of this modern doctrine is found below in this video I produced for YouTube.

Genesis of Dispensational Theology

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eclipsenow

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You have symbolized the nation of Israel into the church.
I didn't, the bible did.

The church has some of Isreal in it, but not all of Israel.
Jesus said sons of Abraham from stones, sheep and goats, etc.


You have physical Israel that has nothing to do with Adam's fallen nature.
? Gibberish.

Why is Israel not a concrete reality to you?
Because the New Testament including Jesus and the Apostles interpret the Old Testament, not the other way round.

If you do not spiritualize the actual literal OT kingdoms that had nothing whatsoever to do with the church, why would you conflate physical Israel with the church today?
Gibberish - I think you're just playing with words now.

You are demanding God only has one plan.
He told us, in the bible, in the New Testament - that there is only one people, Jesus sheep, even those sheep from other pastures. One chosen people, holy nation, people belonging to God.

What if God has a thousand plans?
Yeah, like what? Budda, Krishna, Orange People, Jonestown, that guy that calls himself Jesus reincarnated up in Queensland Australia?

Are God's plans just symbolic?

Is this just symbolic or real? Peter is speaking to all Christians here.

1 PETER 2:9
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.​
 
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Is this just symbolic or real? Peter is speaking to all Christians here.

1 PETER 2:9
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
It is in Paradise, where they have permanent incorruptible bodies. You even deny that fact. You deny your own proof.

There is a physical Kingdom in Paradise. There is going to be a physical Kingdom on earth. Right now the physical Kingdom in Paradise is the main event. The Second Coming will end the church. Paradise will be made complete. Then God will set up the physical Kingdom on earth. It will not be the church. If you read the Bible instead of symbolize all of Scripture, it is right there in black and white.

If you take away any physical aspect of a Nation on earth, you are replacing the earthly Covenant with the Atonement. The first century Hebrews needed that explained to them symbolically. After 2000 years of Gentiles trodding all over the Holy Land, that should not be hard to figure out literally.

The Law was not the Covenant. The Law was as Paul put it a school master pointing out how bad sin is. The Atonement covered the church from Abel, through the time of the Law of Moses, to Christ, until now. The church had nothing to do with Jacob being called out as a physical Nation on earth while the church was a Nation in Paradise. Most of the citizens accept Enoch, Elijah, Moses, had to sit in sheol in Abraham's bosom until the Cross. Then Paradise was opened physically for all of the church to enter.

How you all interpret or see that is besides the point. You are stuck in the views presented by a pagan, theologically driven point of view that a harlot religion passed down century after century, or Jewish mysticism. God did not replace the church, with Jacob as a Nation, nor did He then turn around and replace the Nation of Israel, with the church. The church has been around since Enoch. Cain killed the church, but God brought her back.

The Nations were the Steward of the vineyard. Then Jacob was the Steward, and finally the church was the Steward. If you do not want to apply the parable of Jesus with historical fact, no one is forcing you to.

Being a Steward is not a spiritual dispensation. It is being responsible for God (the Gospel) being spread throughout the earth. All major religions today came from the Babylonian captivity, and Daniel influenced all of them. Like the theory of evolution of today, denying God's Word, the religions will claim they evolved over the span of human history. Nope, they all started with the influence of one man, named Daniel. Daniel was shown the political and religious development of all time after Babylon. The Hebrews gave the whole world their belief system. What the world did with that is history, and no one wanted God to dictate their lives.

The church is now fractured in millions of more ways than the original Hebrew influence birthed. The "church" is, in the last 400 years, responsible for all forms of Government as well. What the church binds and looses does happen and more times for the bad than the good.

Yes, Israel has been set aside. That is a fact. No where does the Bible say permanently. The church is not the regathering of national Israel. The church is the gathering of Adam's family, not Jacob's. What God does with Israel is not the concern of the church.

25 “Now his older son (the church) was in the field. As he (the church) came close to the house, he (the church) heard music and dancing.
26 So he (the church) called one of the servants and asked, ‘What’s going on?’
27 The servant told him, ‘Your brother (Israel) has come back, and your father has slaughtered the calf that was fattened up, because he has gotten him (Israel) back safe and sound.’
28 But the older son (the church) became angry and refused to go inside.

“So his (the church's) father came out and pleaded with him (the church).
29 ‘Look,’ the son (the church) answered, ‘I have worked for you all these years, and I have never disobeyed your orders. But you have never even given me a young goat, so that I could celebrate with my friends.
30 Yet this son of yours (Israel) comes, who squandered your property with prostitutes, and for him (Israel) you slaughter the fattened calf!’
31 ‘Son (the church), you are always with me,’ said the father, ‘and everything I have is yours (the church's).
32 We had to celebrate and rejoice, because this brother of yours (Israel) was dead but has come back to life — he (Israel) was lost but has been found.’”
 
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BABerean2

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Yes, Israel has been set aside. That is a fact. No where does the Bible say permanently. The church is not the regathering of national Israel. The church is the gathering of Adam's family, not Jacob's. What God does with Israel is not the concern of the church.

Your attempts to separate the church from faithful Israel fall apart in the scripture below.


Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Testing of Your Faith
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.


.
 
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eclipsenow

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It is in Paradise, where they have permanent incorruptible bodies. You even deny that fact. You deny your own proof.

Rubbish - I've read a number of commentaries on 1 Peter and he is telling his audience of Christian readers how to live and why. Indeed, part of the rebuke of 1 Peter 2 seems to be to the Jews who did NOT believe! They are NOT in the nation. Check it out!

1 Peter 2
2 Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. 2 Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, 3 now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.

4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For in Scripture it says:

“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.”

7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,

“The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”

8 and,

“A stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.”

They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.

9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.​

Christians are to live a certain way BECAUSE they are now (and back then 2000 years ago) the "Holy Nation". Everyone else has been rejected.
 
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Timtofly

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Your attempts to separate the church from faithful Israel fall apart in the scripture below.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Testing of Your Faith
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
Why are you separating faithful Israel from unfaithful Israel?

It is your case, not mine.

There was a church before Jacob was born. There was a church during the OT kingdom period. There has been a church since then.

Was every human a part of both Israel and the church? Was all of Israel part of the church?

The church has been the faithful since Adam sinned. Israel was not even around for all of history. Israel has never ruled all the Nations. The church has never ruled all the Nations.

The church makes up the population of Paradise. Israel will rule on earth. Not past Israel. Not even current living Israel. We are talking about dead souls being given new incorruptible bodies who populate earth. This does not and cannot apply to current conditions.

Where in Scripture does it claim the New Jerusalem will be abandoned as a dwelling place?
 
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eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
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Why are you separating faithful Israel from unfaithful Israel?
Because that's what the bible does in about a thousand places.
(See what I did there with the number 1000? I do not mean that literally, but in the Psalm 50 sense where it means "heaps!")

It is your case, not mine.
Um, I think you'll find it's the bible's case.

There was a church before Jacob was born. There was a church during the OT kingdom period. There has been a church since then.
IF by that we mean a gathering of God's people - the elect - who remain faithful when others do not, then yes there was a 'church' before Jacob was born. But that's just a semantic game. One could as easily say 'faithful Hebrew' or 'faithful Jew'.

Was every human a part of both Israel and the church? Was all of Israel part of the church?
That's just a semantic game. One could as easily say 'faithful Hebrew' or 'faithful Jew'.

Israel was not even around for all of history. Israel has never ruled all the Nations. The church has never ruled all the Nations.
So?
Jesus reigns now from heaven during this '1000 years' and his gospel is advancing. Who says WE get to reign over political structures? Remember, "My kingdom is not of this world" and then he died and rose again. Then the martyrs die and are before the thrones of earlier Revelation, which are in heaven.

The church makes up the population of Paradise.
Wrong! I've linked to the article that defines the church universal - did you bother to read the whole thing? It explains a lot of the key bible verses that show us how the bible views the church.

Israel will rule on earth.
That would be awful given how they treat other religions and the Palestinians! It's also completely unnecessary from a biblical point of view.

We are talking about dead souls being given new incorruptible bodies who populate earth. This does not and cannot apply to current conditions.
The OT verses that picture Paradise see it through the lens of Jewish faithfulness in a perfect temple on perfect Mount Zion etc. But in the NT that is all spiritualised by Jesus and the apostles themselves.

Where in Scripture does it claim the New Jerusalem will be abandoned as a dwelling place?
What? Huh? Wow. Talk about putting up a strawman.
The New Jerusalem itself is picture language for the New Heavens and New Earth - 12,000 stadia which is the people of God (12 tribes, 12 apostles) times a gazillion bajillion! Yup, that's how Jewish number symbolism multiplied out works. That's also why the 144,000 is not literal. It's Israel multiplied by a gazillion bajillion!
 
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