There is no Rapture

[JLB777]

There is the coming of Jesus in John 14:2-3 that Jesus promised to come and receive his followers to himself. That is the rapture/resurrection event for them looking for him to be taken to heaven where Jesus has prepared a place for us.

And there is another coming of Jesus commonly called the Second Coming. Which is His coming in Revelation 19 and Zechariah 14.

1. coming for the rapture/resurrection.
2. coming a second time to Jerusalem, i.e. Jesus's return, His Second Coming.

Totally and completely false.


There is one coming of the Lord, it’s called the Second Coming of Christ, because He came once already.


so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28


At His coming, the resurrection of the dead, and rapture of the Church takes place, as well as the destruction of the antichrist and the wicked.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-4


again


Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-8

Again these three things occur at His coming: in order


The resurrection of the dead in Christ
The rapture of the Church
The destruction of the wicked including the antichrist.



JLB

 

[Juan777]

That is obviously what you have done. 1 Thess 4:16-17 does not say that heaven is the destination. It was the place Jesus came from.
YOU have 'wrongly interpretated' heaven the be the destination.

It's heavily implied where it says "so shall we ever be with the Lord", and if we go by using scripture to interpret scripture, then Revelation 19 brings some insights that certain events will be happening in heaven when the bottom is falling off on Earth. There is a Marriage Supper of the Lamb and also Jesus is returning on a White Horse along with an army of Saints which would include the saints who were Raptured before the Tribulation.

Even so, on a technical level, if you are meeting the Lord in the air, that is still the first (out of the three) heavens. There are also other things to consider.

A general resurrection, or any body change to anyone other than the GT martyrs, is not in the scriptures.
Your mindset seems to be: 'float me up to heaven', despite the fact of 4 verses that say we must endure until the end.

Please Douggg, you only degrade yourself by making such wacky comments.
Jesus did come; the first Advent, He will Return as King,\
No other actual comings.

Those verses are not referenced in 1 Thess 4 where the Rapture is discussed. People die everyday. Unless people somehow magically have unlimited life-spans and are able to be alive until the "end", I don't see a difference between death or the Rapture as being "the end" for an individual. Any arguement using the Rapture as a means of escape can be said the same of someone dying before that time (not because of suicide).

 

[oikonomia]

One fact from Scripture completely refutes the idea of a pre-rapture. That fact is that the Antichrist will defeat and execute Christians.

That does not necessitate that there cannot be any rapture.
That only means all Christians are not raptured at the time Christ intended all to BE so raptured.

This fact is stated several times in the Book of Daniel and Revelation (Daniel 7:21, Revelation 13:7, Revelation 20:4). If Christians are persecuted and killed during the reign of the Antichrist, then there can be no pre-rapture. That would otherwise be a clear contradiction.

Once again - the fact that some or even a majority of Christians suffer under the persecution of Antichrist does not mean that there could not have been a rapture pre-tribulation. It only implies it was not universal.

And THAT fact has nothing to do with the security of the eternal redemption of those who missed being raptured before the great tribulation.

Jesus will only return once and that is at the end of the reign of the Antichrist.

Jesus can snatch away secretively and suddenly some off the earth who are fulfilling to requirement to watch and be ready.
And then He can come at a latter time publically non-secretively with great manifestation to touch down on the surface of the earth.

I don't know of any church father who believed in a pre-rapture, nor do I know anyone who believed in dispensationalism.

The Lord said the Holy Spirit will lead the believers into all the truth.
It is not necessarily that all the truth they be led into in one period of time.

That rapture is clearer to believers of a latter time than it was to believers at an earlier time is not illegitimate.

That truth right there in the Scripture receives clearer understanding at some latter time than it had at some earlier time is not impossible.
Justification by Faith was rather obsured and hidden for near a thousand years!
The verses were aways there. Luther didn't add something new to the text.

It is the same with rapture.
That latter generations were led into this truth is not impossible.
Nor is it impossible that STILL there may be aspects of it that are not clearly understood by many.

So I have a heavenly bone to pick with you on this. Praise the Lord.
I hope our examination will be mutually edifying.
Now am I on to something here?

I started a quiet thread on Rapture of a "critical mass" but no one has commented. sniff!

 

[Timtofly]

I begin assuming that God is a rational God, who does not practice magic,and that everything He does is determined by or is in terms of a pre-existing law; just because things are beyond humane comprehension doesn't mean they are not according a rational, or even mathematical Law.


Genesis was written about 2000 years after the fact by Moses; I wonder what the purpose of the Adam story and the Creation story is; it is too abstract to take literally; so I treat them as parables. Our minds require a beginning and an end; Genesis is a beginning and Revelation an end. It would be wrong to assume there was not an infinite period preceding Genesis where the Gods that we are the image of existed.


Adam was made from the dust of the earth in the first place, as we are. Are angels made from the dust of the earth, not likely; but they can appear as men.

Moses was told directly by God, the history of God.


Is God then a parable made up by Moses, in your logical conclusion?

 

[Douggg]

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

"To those who eagerly wait for Him". People who use this verse to imply Jesus's return, don't take into account - the above verse applies only to Christians who are expectant of the rapture/resurrection event.

The Second Coming is a popularized term, that has become wide spread.. It actually refers to Jesus' Return. But, them who are post trib mistakenly use that verse to imply that the rapture/resurrection event takes place at the Second Coming, i.e. Jesus's Return.

At Jesus's Return, popularly called The Second Coming, it is to execute judgment on the wicked. It is not for the rapture/resurrection event, and nothing is said about the rapture/resurrection event in Revelation 19 chapter of the day that Jesus Returns. Which it should have, if it were to occur then, because in Revelation 20, it does highlight the resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-8

Again these three things occur at His coming: in order


The resurrection of the dead in Christ
The rapture of the Church
The destruction of the wicked including the antichrist.

The order in 2Thessalonians 2:1-8 is...

1. The gathering to Christ. The rapture/resurrection event.
2. The beginning of the Day of the Lord, triggered by the Antichrist going into the temple sitting, claiming to be God.
3. The destruction of the Antichrist at Jesus's Return.

 

[Juan777]

That does not necessitate that there cannot be any rapture.
That only means all Christians are not raptured at the time Christ intended all to BE so raptured.

Once again - the fact that some or even a majority of Christians suffer under the persecution of Antichrist does not mean that there could not have been a rapture pre-tribulation. It only implies it was not universal.

And THAT fact has nothing to do with the security of the eternal redemption of those who missed being raptured before the great tribulation.

Jesus can snatch away secretively and suddenly some off the earth who are fulfilling to requirement to watch and be ready.
And then He can come at a latter time publically non-secretively with great manifestation to touch down on the surface of the earth.



The Lord said the Holy Spirit will lead the believers into all the truth.
It is not necessarily that all the truth they be led into in one period of time.

That rapture is clearer to believers of a latter time than it was to believers at an earlier time is not illegitimate.

That truth right there in the Scripture receives clearer understanding at some latter time than it had at some earlier time is not impossible.
Justification by Faith was rather obsured and hidden for near a thousand years!
The verses were aways there. Luther didn't add something new to the text.

It is the same with rapture.
That latter generations were led into this truth is not impossible.
Nor is it impossible that STILL there may be aspects of it that are not clearly understood by many.

So I have a heavenly bone to pick with you on this. Praise the Lord.
I hope our examination will be mutually edifying.
Now am I on to something here?

I started a quiet thread on Rapture of a "critical mass" but no one has commented. sniff!

Agreed. This is also includes people who will get saved after the Rapture. The Rapture is a big public relations promotion for Christianity because it validates a major prophecy within the bible, especially for unbelievers and worldly/lukewarm Christians who know about this and then find out about the missing people on CNN (or whatever app or channel) after the fact. There are also 144,000 inspired Jews who will also evangelize the Jews and the world during that time. Plus it takes a while from the anti-christ to be introduced and consolidate power so in the interim Christianity will likely explode on a level not seen today or before since the Early Church.

 

[Juan777]

"To those who eagerly wait for Him". People who use this verse to imply Jesus's return, don't take into account - the above verse applies only to Christians who are expectant of the rapture/resurrection event.

The Second Coming is a popularized term, that has become wide spread.. It actually refers to Jesus' Return. But, them who are post trib mistakenly use that verse to imply that the rapture/resurrection event takes place at the Second Coming, i.e. Jesus's Return.

At Jesus's Return, popularly called The Second Coming, it is to execute judgment on the wicked. It is not for the rapture/resurrection event, and nothing is said about the rapture/resurrection event in Revelation 19 chapter of the day that Jesus Returns. Which it should have, if it were to occur then, because in Revelation 20, it does highlight the resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints.


The order in 2Thessalonians 2:1-8 is...

1. The gathering to Christ. The rapture/resurrection event.
2. The beginning of the Day of the Lord, triggered by the Antichrist going into the temple sitting, claiming to be God.
3. The destruction of the Antichrist at Jesus's Return.





View attachment 324160

The chart shows a mid-Trib Rapture rather than a pre-Trib Rapture.

The key issue is if the anti-christ will be revealed before the Rapture. The Pre-Trib position is that Christians will be removed before the anti-christ is revealed because there is something right now preventing this person (ie who is likely alive and is an adult concecreated to the devil), from being revealed into the world stage where you can put a face to a name. Until the Rapture happens he will not be able to show himself. (2 Thess 2:7) In fact, he/it is so evil that he is cast ALIVE into the lake of fire and are the first inhabitants of the lake of fire. (Rev 19:20). Something so evil can't be revealed until after the Rapture.

 

[dfw69]

I have given scriptures that plainly show us the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming and are one event.

• that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

• There is only one coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. It’s called the Day of the Lord.

But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2



The resurrection of the dead in Christ, and the rapture are one event that occurs at His coming.


Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds


It’s plain and clear that the raptured ones, will be caught up together with them resurrected ones, at His coming.



JLB

Yes the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the transformation into children of god will take place at his coming for the church

it is not to be confused with the day of the lord when he comes to rule in Jerusalem which is a different appointment a different time and season

 

[Timtofly]

There is no Rapture!!! The two witnesses will be taken up, but I see no Biblical reason for those of the first resurrection to be taken up into the clouds and even if they were it would only to come down again as the new Jerusalem.

I wonder what happens if a person is wrong; if one believed in the Rapture and was wrong, would one loose his salvation? If one believed there was not a rapture, and was wrong, would one loose his salvation? Or could either loose or gain salvation.


I believe it is time wasted that could have been better used.

The Second Coming is at the 5th and 6th Seal. This is the final harvest.

If you are not harvested, then you will go to the LOF.

That is the hard truth, many here reject.

After the Church is removed, Israel is removed. Then the nations are removed, the wheat will live on the earth, and the tares burned up assumingly in the LOF. The only humans left will be destroyed in the winepress of God's wrath. There is no post trib harvest of redeemed. Only if some are beheaded, will they be physically resurrected to live on the earth. If you choose to wait and chop your head off, you will not be part of the glorified church in Paradise. You will live on earth for 1,000 years waiting for the church to come down as the New Jerusalem.

Revelation 19 is not the Second Coming to the Mount of Olives per Zechariah 14. The Second Coming to the Mount of Olives happens at the 6th Seal. At the 7th Trumpet, it will be determined if Satan gets 42 months. It is quite possible, that no one will be left to choose beheading over the mark. If that is the case there will be no 42 months, period. Revelation 13, 15, 16, 17, 18, and 19 will not even happen. Satan will still be bound for 1,000 years, because he and his angels were just defeated by Michael and cast out of heaven. But Satan will not have 42 months and no Babylonian empire with a FP and beast, if there is no human to be beheaded at the confirmation of the Atonement Covenant per Daniel 9:27.

Many accept the worse case scenario. There is a best case scenario where the week is not split in half. It seems Satan has deceived many in to spending time with him on the earth, instead of with the Lord in Paradise. The same wisdom he offered Eve to get kicked out of Paradise. You all really should tell Satan to get out of your head and ideology, and let him know you are going to Paradise, and not enjoying the tribulation with him.

 

[Douggg]

The chart shows a mid-Trib Rapture rather than a pre-Trib Rapture.

The chart shows the rapture window (highlighted in blue) as being anytime between today and the day that the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God.

It could be pre-trib (pre-70th week in pre-trib terminology). Or it could be after the 70th week begins.

The key issue is if the anti-christ will be revealed before the Rapture. The Pre-Trib position is that Christians will be removed before the anti-christ is revealed because there is something right now preventing this person (ie who is likely alive and is an adult concecreated to the devil), from being revealed into the world stage where you can put a face to a name. Until the Rapture happens he will not be able to show himself. (2 Thess 2:7) In fact, he/it is so evil that he is cast ALIVE into the lake of fire and are the first inhabitants of the lake of fire. (Rev 19:20). Something so evil can't be revealed until after the Rapture.

Well, the pre-trib view has some misuse of terms. When they say "pre-trib", they mean pre-70th week because they consider the entire 7 years 70th week as "the tribulation".

And when they say before the Antichrist is revealed - they mean to know for sure who he is by his confirming of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 to begin the 7 years. Which they hold to be a peace treaty.

 

[Juan777]

Revelation 19 is not the Second Coming to the Mount of Olives per Zechariah 14.

It sounds like they are talking about the same thing in both Chapters. I'll even throw in the end verses of Revelation 12 for good measure. The mountain is split in Zech 14 creating an earthquake that wipes out the armies described in Revelation 19.

if there is no human to be beheaded at the confirmation of the Atonement Covenant per Daniel 9:27.

Just because it's not mentioned does not mean it doesn't happen. What is mentioned is that's called the Abomination that Jesus tells everyone to flee Israel (Matt 24:15-16, Revelation 12:6 are referring to the same event as Daniel 9:27), and by deducation that would include (Matt 24:15, 2 Thess 2:4 -- which points to Rev 13:15).

 

[Juan777]

The chart shows the rapture window (highlighted in blue) as being anytime between today and the day that the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God.

It could be pre-trib (pre-70th week in pre-trib terminology). Or it could be after the 70th week begins.





View attachment 324161


Well, the pre-trib view has some misuse of terms. When they say "pre-trib", they mean pre-70th week because they consider the entire 7 years 70th week as "the tribulation".

And when they say before the Antichrist is revealed - they mean to know for sure who he is by his confirming of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 to begin the 7 years. Which they hold to be a peace treaty.

When the 70th week begins it means the Gentile church age is over and the Jewish time-clock starts to the last week. The Rapture is the point where its the end of the Church age dispensation.

Also to be technical, the anti-christ himself is not revealed in the Temple, it's an image of the anti-christ or statue that is brought to life by the false prophet that is inside the temple. The actual anti-christ is revealed to the world at least 3.5 years before that and I'm sure people, especially those left behind from the Rapture will be fully aware of who he is.

 

[dfw69]

When the 70th week begins it means the Gentile church age is over and the Jewish time-clock starts to the last week. The Rapture is the point where its the end of the Church age dispensation.

Also to be technical, the anti-christ himself is not revealed in the Temple, it's an image of the anti-christ or statue that is brought to life by the false prophet that is inside the temple. The actual anti-christ is revealed to the world at least 3.5 years before that and I'm sure people, especially those left behind from the Rapture will be fully aware of who he is.

The thing I like to add to this is that after the rapture the false messianic age is gonna begin
The temple will be built
And a messiah king of Jerusalem anointed and many messiahs and false prophets come during the false messianic age and 10 tribes of Israel form

After years of ruling that is when the final antichrist rises over the 10 tribes of Israel to fight and destroy mystery Babylon

 

[Timtofly]

I have studied Paul's teachings for many years and i do not see anywhere that he says: we Christians will be taken to heaven. He may have been. but not that he went to live there, or that we will go there too.
Paul did prophecy a transportation when Jesus Returns, initially into the atmosphere, then to Jerusalem, where Jesus will be. 1 Thess 4:17, Matthew 24:31
It is purely by assumption, conjecture and supposition, that people think there will be a 'rapture'.

Do you think Paul did not have a near death experience? Why would his soul switch to a new body in a near death experience?

2 Corinthians 12:2-5

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth)

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

Paul associates the third heaven with Paradise. This would be some part of the firmament. Paradise was occupied at the Cross, when Abraham's bosom was emptied.

This experience would have happened to Paul in Acts 14:19-20

19 And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.

20 Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe.

If Paul was stoned to the point they thought he was dead, would this not be what Paul wrote about? God was not finished with Paul at that point. Paul did not get a new body in Paradise, but his soul entered back into Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

Paul saw what he would be in Paradise, but was not allowed to be, because God still had work for him to do on earth. He could glory in that future body and even write about it, 2 Corinthians 5:1. But he was glad he could suffer in his current flesh waiting for the day he would pass from this body to the one in Paradise.

Paul was not waiting after physical death. Paul only waited as long as he was alive and remain. That was over 1900 years ago. Paul is not waiting in the grave somewhere. He is enjoying that physical body in Paradise, a part of the firmament. He has been there since the first century.

Either you don't accept Paul's writings, or call him a liar. Paradise is where the tree of life is. Paradise is where the thief went to be with the Lord the very day he physically died. His soul is not waiting in Abraham's bosom. Abraham's bosom is empty. There are currently billions in Paradise, a multitude John could not number from every nation and tongue on earth. Gathered in Abraham's bosom for over 2,400 years. Gathered directly at the time of physical death for 1992 years.

At the Second Coming in the 5th and 6th Seals gathered from all over heaven/Paradise. In the Olivet Discourse called heaven, because at the Cross, the point of Atonement, it was officially called Paradise.

Paul claims that at the Second Coming, Jesus will bring them with Him. They come from heaven/Paradise. They meet those alive (from the earth) in the air. Then they are forever with the Lord. Paul never states they follow Jesus to the Mount of Olives. Paul is not concerned where Jesus is going. Paul is writing about where the glorified church is headed, with the Lord in Paradise.

The 144k are not representative of billions of glorified church members on the earth. John sees the church in Paradise. The 144k are sealed on the earth to be on the earth during the Trumpets and Thunders, ie the final harvest, the time of Jacob's trouble, the GT.

The Woman in Revelation 12 is not dealing with the church. That is Israel who faces Satan and is protected. When Israel is sealed as the 144k, the Lord is not waiting for 144k professions of faith. The angels sealed those souls giving those 144k no choice in the matter. They are now disciples of Jesus whether they want to be or not. None of them are described as Judas who turned against Christ. This ministry as servants of Christ the King will not be as open ended as the original 12 disciples in the first century. The original 12 kept Adam's dead corruptible flesh. These 144k will be changed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh, and given God's permanent incorruptible physical bodies. That is the symbolism of being sealed by an angel. Just like the raptured church from earth is changed in mid air, those 144k will be changed on the earth. Revelation 7 is contrasting the 144k on earth with the glorified church with God in Paradise. The scene is not about billions hiding out in the desert, serving God in His temple day and night. It is in Paradise. They are currently with the Lamb now. They have been for 1992 years.

 

[Douggg]

Also to be technical, the anti-christ himself is not revealed in the Temple, it's an image of the anti-christ or statue that is brought to life by the false prophet that is inside the temple. The actual anti-christ is revealed to the world at least 3.5 years before that and I'm sure people, especially those left behind from the Rapture will be fully aware of who he is.

The 2Thessalonians2:4 "act" is the transgression of desolation act of Daniel 8:12-13. That act reveals that the Antichrist, thought-as-the messiah by the Jews, shows him not to be the messiah after all. They will reject him at that point and turn to Jesus.

The statue made that you are speaking about in Revelation 13, will be the abomination of desolation image of the beast setup on the temple mount. It is not made until after the revealed man of sin (in 2Thessalonians2:4) is killed and brought back to life as the beast.

The order of sequence is this...

1. Following Gog/Magog event, the prince who shall come (the little horn person) shall be anointed the king of Israel, making him the Antichrist.
2. About three years later, the Antichrist commits the 2Thessalonians2:4 transgression of desolation act. Triggers the Day of the Lord's beginning.
3. Then, God in anger over his claim of being God, brings strangers against him, in Ezekiel 28:1-10, to assassinate him.
4. Then, his soul in hell, while his body is in a casket, is returned to his body by God in disdain for him. The world will be flabbergasted.
5. At which time, the spirit of the garden of eden serpent comes out of the bottomless pit to posses him - now the person has become the beast.
6. Then the false prophet has the statue made of the beast, and placed on the temple mount. The abomination of desolation. The great tribulation begins.

 

[keras]

We Christians will not and cannot be physically removed from this earth. Heaven is a place for Spirit beings and 'rapture to heaven' believers, of whatever timing; know this, so their answer to that is: we are 'changed' and made immortal at the moment of rapture. This ignores the plain scripture of Revelation 20:11-15, of how it is only at the Great White Throne Judgement, that immortality is conferred to those whose names are found in the Book of Life. The 'change at the twinkle of an eye', in Corinthians 15, is a prophecy about what happens at the GWT, AFTER the Millennium.

Re: the word 'escape' in Luke 21:36. This is rendered as 'pass safely through' in the Revised English Bible.
Although 'escape' is one way of translating the Greek word there, to do that is to directly conflict with the context of the immediately preceding verse 35, that says what will happen; 'will come upon everyone the whole world over'. The REB correctly renders Luke 21:34-36.

Certainly, verse 36 does not even hint of a rapture to heaven; that has to be imposed onto the text.

Re; Revelation 3:10. Being 'kept from', doesn't mean taken away from. The 3 men in the fiery furnace weren't taken out of it, they were protected in it. Noah went thru the Flood, people today face persecution; it’s simply illogical and totally unscriptural to even think that suddenly God will allow His people to 'escape, away from’, trials and testing, let alone take them all up to heaven before Judgement!

The other aspect of a 'rapture to heaven', is what does God really want of His people? We have the Great Commission. Matthew 28:19 When did, or when will, God rescind that?



So what will the Lord do for His faithful people?
Most will know that I point out how the Lord's holy people, that is: every faithful Christian, will be gathered into all of the holy Land, Psalm 107, Ezekiel 34:11-16, where they will be the people God always wanted in His Land, being His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-15


I have plenty of Biblical proofs of this. It is what will happen, any other belief is deception.

 

[Douggg]

Also to be technical, the anti-christ himself is not revealed in the Temple, it's an image of the anti-christ or statue that is brought to life by the false prophet that is inside the temple. The actual anti-christ is revealed to the world at least 3.5 years before that and I'm sure people, especially those left behind from the Rapture will be fully aware of who he is.

We will be able to know who the person is - ahead of him becoming the Antichrist. We will be able to know who he is - in his little horn stage, when he becomes leader over a group of ten EU leaders. He must be a Jew, and his religion Judaism.

I have an eye on Zelenski. And also on the Yanuka, as the possible false prophet.

 

[Timtofly]

Once we understand that the resurrection and rapture take place at His coming, it’s easy to see that the resurrection and rapture take place on the last Day, after the great tribulation.

There is no "last Day after the tribulation". That is your imagined made up scenario without Scripture.

If you are referring to Revelation 20:4, that is not a resurrection of all the dead in Christ. That is a resurrection of those beheaded in the AoD. The Second Coming does not take place in Revelation 20:4.

The Second Coming does not take place in Revelation 19 either.

 

[dfw69]

We Christians will not and cannot be physically removed from this earth. Heaven is a place for Spirit beings and 'rapture to heaven' believers, of whatever timing; know this, so their answer to that is: we are 'changed' and made immortal at the moment of rapture.

Why is this so impossible to believe? Jesus did it …he’s in heaven now ..he was a man born of a woman

 

[oikonomia]

God already showed saints can be removed physically from the earth.

Enoch was removed - set aside to where for now. He was removed.
Elijah was removed - set aside to where for now. He was removed.
Even Phillip the evangelist was removed - to somewhere else on earth, yes, but still removed.
And of course our Lord Jesus Christ was removed.

We may add the apostle Paul was removed, though he is not sure whether it was physical or just in spirit.

I do agree that changing does something to make those raptured to the third heavens suitable to appear there not naked but clothed with
a glorified body.