There is no Hell!

[Zecryphon]

In regards to our bibles: Are more interested in interpretations, or correct translations? If you only want the pure word of God, then you should spend time studying the translation of certain words.

I agree. But this raises an interesting question. When we then quote from our Bibles, should we insert the proper word where we see Hell?

 

[TheLivingWater]

When I say I dont believe in hell, I mean the place. The punishment for sin is death, but not for those who are saved. The dead are cut off from life for all eternity. The word "hell" was introduced into scripture in place of the words "pit" and "grave". I believe that it is a sin to join Pagan beliefs to the word of God, our bibles.

"Where theyr worm does not die" Michael

 

[james415]

"For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead" (2 Cor. 5:14). How can one who is dead find God? Impossible! Why should Paul connect the love of Christ with the fact that ALL WERE DEAD? Simply because it is the love of God in the Christ which is accomplishing this work, in His sovereign way, of bringing the whole world back to life and to God. Again we read in Eph. 2:12 "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world." Ah. this is really a desperate situation And all mankind was in a place like that. All of us were absolutely dead to God and without God in the world. One of the most enlightening passages along this line is found in Jn. 1: IO. "He was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and THE WORLD KNEW HIM NOT." How can anyone seek after the Lord if they don't know Him? How clear that mankind was in a dilemma. We could not direct our own steps or order our way before the Lord. We were without God and we were dead. And now John declares that Jesus came and walked in the midst of the people He had created, AND THEY DID NOT KNOW HIM! What chance did men have to return to God EXCEPT GOD HELP THEM?
The prophet Jeremiah declared, "O Lord, I know that the WAY OF MAN IS NOT IN HIMSELF; IT IS NOT IN MAN THAT WALKETH TO DIRECT HIS STEPS" (Jer. 10:23). God had been saying through the prophet that His people were scattered, His pastors had become brutish and His tabernacle was destroyed, so it was obvious that the way of man is not in himself. This being true, man cannot direct his steps or set his pathway. This is the condition in which God began His redemptive work with man. If it was not in us to direct our steps, then we could not direct our steps back to God. This ability was not a part of the make-up of man. In the beginning the first man deliberately, and according to the plan of God, directed his steps away from God and, hopelessly lost, man has walked that way ever since. Mankind was made blind and couldn't see his way back to God, even though, as Paul said to the Athenians, surely God is not far from any one of us. How we thank God that He sent one Man into this world who did know the way hack to the Father! This Man knew how to order His own step, and also how to order our steps, when we could not direct them ourselves. We can see it so plainly in a little child. Even after the child learns to walk, it does not know where or how to walk to keep out of danger and harm. Its way must be directed by an adult. Without any fear it would run onto a highway filled with speeding cars. It does not know how to order its way. Just so, mankind does not know how to direct its way!
"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all" (Rom. 11:32). "Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience (the) many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall (the) many be made righteous" (Rom. 5:18-19). "For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order" (I Cor. 15:21-23). It would be a most beautiful thing if all the saints of God could have an open vision that would enable them to understand the simple and obvious truth that if the first Adam could do something which the last Adam could not undo, then the first Adam had more power than the last Adam. In other words, if Adam could put ten people into sin and death, and the Christ could take only nine out, then Adam would have greater influence and power than the Christ. But whether we believe it or not, ALL POWER HAS BEEN GIVEN UNTO THE CHRIST.
With the foregoing truth in mind let us read a most remarkable and significant statement in Jn. 12:31. "NOW is the judgment of this world." What a volume of truth is contained in those few short words! The word "judgment" literally means A DECISION. We know that any judgment is a decision. Jesus was saying that now is THE DECISION of this world, or now is the time the world is going to decide what it is going to do. At the time He uttered these words Jesus was preparing to be sacrificed on behalf of the people of the world. He came to taste death for every man. He was speaking just prior to His crucifixion and the world was soon to make a momentous decision. The world would decide just what it would do with the Christ. It should be clear to every honest heart that the world at that or any other time, WAS NOT CAPABLE OF TURNING TO GOD, or of MAKING A DECISION FOR ITSELF THAT WOULD CAUSE IT TO RETURN TO GOD. There was absolutely no desire, no will, nor any purpose on the part of mankind to return to God. The people of Israel, with the Gentiles, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord and His Anointed. They wouldn't have "this man" to rule over them. They were finished with Jesus, the Son of the living God. So Jesus declared that the world must decide what it would do, yet it was in no condition to decide!
This condition is again mirrored in the lives of our children. In the life of a child, there are times when decisions must be made, and the child is not capable of deciding, SO SOMEONE ELSE MUST DO IT FOR HIM. The parent, or other responsible person, must make the decision. Here in chapter twelve of John we see a whole world that is estranged from God and dead in trespasses and sins, without God and without hope. Here was a world whose ears were stopped, whose eyes were blinded, and understanding had been taken from their hearts. Yet this world was going to be required to make a decision!
Another profound statement, freighted with meaning, accompanies the statement by Jesus that we have previously quoted. He said, "NOW shall the prince of this world be cast out" (Jn. 12:31). Christ proclaims two great truths which cannot be separated. "NOW is the judgment (decision) of this world: NOW shall the prince of this world be cast out." The world had come to the crossroads and must make a decision, but was not capable of doing it. So Jesus said that the prince of this world would be cast out and that He, Jesus, the last Adam, the representative of the whole human race, would decide for the whole human race, just as the first Adam, the first representative man, decided for us all. If the first Adam, as a representative man was able to decide or all the world and put us all into sin and death, then the last Adam, the Christ of God, as the representative man could decide to take all of us out of sin!
How meaningful, then, the inspired words of the apostle Paul, "For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son..." (Rom. 5:10). According to all human reasoning this is an impossibility - that my enemy could be reconciled to me by the death of my own son. But Paul argues that the death of Jesus reconciled us, the enemies of God, unto God. By the death of the Son of God was this wrought. Naturally, an enemy would refuse to be reconciled. He would have nothing to do with it. Nevertheless, God sent His Son, and by the dying of that Son, reconciled T-H-E W-0-R-L-D unto Himself (2 Cor. 5:19). God did not consult with the world, did not ask the world whether it wanted to be reconciled. He just went ahead and did it! God knew from the beginning that we would not be capable of deciding for ourselves. We would be so bound by the fetters of sin, so bound by out pride and ignorance, our minds so twisted by the illusions of this world, our reasoning so warped by the god of this world, that we could not decide. So God decreed that He would seal up all humanity in unbelief, conclude all under sin, stop up their ears that they could not hear, blind their eyes that they could not see, and take understanding front their hearts that they could not understand. He would send His own Son as a representative man to make the decision for us, to lead us all back to Himself, since we were notable to direct our path or order our way. He concluded us all in unbelief and then let JESUS DECIDE FOR US. This, God did!
BY ONE MAN! Dare we believe it? Dare we embrace the simple but glorious truth that "...as by the offense of one judgment came upon ALL MEN to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life" (Rom. 5:18)? Are the blessed words of the apostle Paul too good to be true, wherein he states, "God was in Christ RECONCILING T-H-E W-0-R-L-D unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation" (2 Cor. 5:19)? Ah - the destiny of the whole race was settled in one man, even Jesus. He was both the sacrifice and the new federal head of the race who would gather us all up into His loving arms and bring us back to God. He would lead all into salvation. Oh! how I rejoice that God did not permit the world to decide the eternal question, but that He sent His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, to do it for us. What matchless love! And in God's own good time, as the orderly procession of the ages run their course, all will be worked out for His glory.
In view of the marvelous, glorious, majestic and all-inclusive work of the last Adam - what good would it do for man to be a FREE MORAL AGENT? God has overruled the will of man, anyway. Oh, no, beloved, man is not a free moral agent. JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY MAN WHO IS A FREE MORAL AGENT. And He made the right choice, the one and only right decision. And HE MADE IT FOR US ALL! Praise His name! And we, the FIRSTFRUITS of His redemption, are the proof, the guarantee, that God is both willing and able to save ALL. Thank God! Man is NOT a free moral agent!

Excellent post Ben.

 

[Nadiine]

Excellent post Ben.

It would be if it were applied correctly to biblical principles & teachings we're clearly given (repeatedly and in lengthy detail)... and if it were true...

Just because God is love doesn't remove His attribute of pure Holiness, righteousness and justice... God is continually reduced by people who pick & choose which Attributes they'll focus on.
They all operate together in perfect harmony and it's GOD who informs us how He acts and reacts - not us making up our doctrines to put God in our little designated boxes.

 

[GuardianShua]

"Where theyr worm does not die" Michael

When reading a parabol, it helps to not be to literal. I know a parabol when I see one. My hobby is studying the parabolic words of the bible. Read Lk 24:25.

 

[Nadiine]

When reading a parabol, it helps to not be to literal. I know a parabol when I see one. My hobby is studying the parabolic words of the bible. Read Lk 24:25.

That's not entirely true tho... a parable is a LIKENESS in meaning using something else that isn't literal...
so the worm isn't necessarily literal, BUT SOMETHING/someone NEVER DYING IS THE POINT of the parable.
Something (a shoe, a person's leg, a piece of paper, a dog, a leaf) doesn't DIE. What is it?
THEIR __________[blank] doesn't die. What doesn't die?

Parables aren't disconnected from the true meaning being relayed; they enhance & simplify it and are usually similar - even tho not literal. Analogies work the same way in principle.

Look at the prodigal son parable - we can use the unreal characters to relay God's love for us and taking us back when we are unfaithful to Him (as we know from the book of Hosea).
Mark 10:25
" It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

The camel isn't literal - the principle is the point... the principles are what carry thru.

 

[GuardianShua]

That's not entirely true tho... a parable is a LIKENESS in meaning using something else that isn't literal...
so the worm isn't necessarily literal, BUT SOMETHING/someone NEVER DYING IS THE POINT of the parable.
Something (a shoe, a person's leg, a piece of paper, a dog, a leaf) doesn't DIE. What is it?
THEIR __________[blank] doesn't die. What doesn't die?

Parables aren't disconnected from the true meaning being relayed; they enhance & simplify it and are usually similar - even tho not literal. Analogies work the same way in principle.

Look at the prodigal son parable - we can use the unreal characters to relay God's love for us and taking us back when we are unfaithful to Him (as we know from the book of Hosea).
Mark 10:25
" It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

The camel isn't literal - the principle is the point... the principles are what carry thru.

Quote: That's not entirely true tho... a parable is a LIKENESS in meaning using something else that isn't literal... /// Did you mean to say: somthing else that is literal.../// And do camel's truly pass through an eye of a needle. Pardon me; It should be, a parabol is something else that is not literal.

 

[drstevej]

If there is no hell,
Where did Windows Me come from?

 

[Nadiine]

If there is no hell,
Where did Windows Me come from?

OH please don't bring up hellacious nightmares for me... I'm still trying to recover from my dark past.

 

[Nadiine]

Quote: That's not entirely true tho... a parable is a LIKENESS in meaning using something else that isn't literal... /// Did you mean to say: somthing else that is literal.../// And do camel's truly pass through an eye of a needle.

I was viewing it as, "camels do not literally go thru eyes of needles"... but we get the principle of something being nearly impossible... so in that way, I said the camel isn't literal; as in, literally going thru a literal needle....

We also have to be careful that we don't study something so closely that we study it to a complete DEATH of meaning. I've seen some people do this with alot of word study and turn illogical and start ignoring common sense & context.

 

[GuardianShua]

I think Ill take a

 

[drstevej]

parable

 

[Ben12]

It would be if it were applied correctly to biblical principles & teachings we're clearly given (repeatedly and in lengthy detail)... and if it were true...

Just because God is love doesn't remove His attribute of pure Holiness, righteousness and justice... God is continually reduced by people who pick & choose which Attributes they'll focus on.
They all operate together in perfect harmony and it's GOD who informs us how He acts and reacts - not us making up our doctrines to put God in our little designated boxes.

Yes all you pick and choose is eternal torture; no mercy for billions.

 

[Nadiine]

Yes all you pick and choose is eternal torture; no mercy for billions.

I pick ALL the verses together that teach the same thing without me having TWIST THEM to suit my theory (what you want God to do - vs.what HE says He will do).
Keep this in mind when you decide for God - were YOU the one that died that horrible death that Jesus did? Did you take every punch? Every scourge? every thorn in your skull? Carry that cross for miles...
Since you didn't, how can you POSSIBLY decide that God just lets everyone in on His Son's literal back.
Love or not, that cost God plenty.

Here's one other concept that may have escaped you too:

Matthew 10:37
" He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.​

38"And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.​

& what did Jesus Himself say about the number ratio??

Matthew 7:13
"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. ​

What part of these aren't clear? (tack that on with Mat. 7:21-23 -not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom. He will tell MANY "depart from Me you who work iniquity, I NEVER KNEW YOU.").

We cannot trample on God's mercy He's given us right now in the age of Grace.

Heb 10:
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. ​

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? ​

You'de have me believe that Jesus' command, "you MUST be born again" is a mere suggestion, and instead, you can trample on the grace of God and live any old way you want and God just opens up the gates for everybody?
The Bible does not teach this, it's an insult to His majesty and sacrifice.

 

[GuardianShua]

Yes all you pick and choose is eternal torture; no mercy for billions.

Ben, you know that I dont believe in hell, because it was introduced into the bible. However, I do believe that the condemed lose their lives as a result of their choice. Because the words for a eternity are use repetedly, and in different ways, it would be logical to conclude that it is final. unless you can provide scripture that shows a different outcome. This question is asked provided it is that you believe no one is lost. So I ask; do you believe that no one is lost for all eternity?

 

[zeke37]

out of all the parables, which ones use peoples names, not titles but names?

 

[GuardianShua]

out of all the parables, which ones use peoples names, not titles but names?

I dont want to take the time to look up all of the names, but if you want to, feel free to do so.

 

[PeacaHeaven]

out of all the parables, which ones use peoples names, not titles but names?

None of them I know of zeke. I don't believe Luke 16 is a parable but its a hot debate and I don't think anyone can really prove which one it is.
I believe that what it teaches is very obvious and the people that try to turn the meaning into something else are purposely ignoring the obvious.

 

[Ben12]

Reconcile: 2643 katallage (kat-al-lag-ay');from 2644; exchange (figuratively, adjustment), i.e. restoration to (the divine) favor: KJV-- atonement, reconciliation (-ing).

I will Add God is going to reconcile the unjust as well as the just according to Strong’s 2643 the unjust will be restored to Devine favor

1 Corin 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Note this says the world not just those in Christ.


1 Corin 5: 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (Again no mentioned that you have to be just or born again)

Imputing: 3049 logizomai 3056; to take an inventory, i.e. estimate (literally or figuratively): KJV-- conclude, (ac-) count (of), + despise, esteem, impute, lay, number, reason, reckon, suppose, think (on).


"For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life." [Romans 5:10]. The thorough change is wrought in us via the operation of His cross.
Herein is a ministry of mercy and grace! "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, NOT IMPUTING THEIR TRESPASSES UNTO THEM." [2 Cor. 5:19].
Not condemning them to a pagan hell for eternity; not charging them with guilt, to heap upon them loads of condemnation, but simply to give the GOOD WORD, namely, that GOD LOVES THEM, forgives them, and is ready to receive them back to Himself. All is well, come home forsake your wayward course, the Father waits to forgive and receive you. No word of condemnation, not imputing a list of sins against you, but a word of hope, of grace, of love.

Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ. This word "for" is the same word as used later "in Christ's stead." In behalf of Christ, as though God did beseech by us, "we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God." [2 Corinthians 5 :20]. God is going to beseech the whole creation through the Christ (anointed) company of which The Christ is the Head. The word "beseech" is a strong word, bespeaking of laying hold in earnestness. This company will be filled with divine compassion, "for the love of Christ constraineth us." [2 Corinthians 5:14]. And will this ministry be effective?

As, yes, "And I heard every created thing in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea and all that is in it, crying out together, To Him Who is seated on the throne and to the Lamb be ascribed the blessing and the honour and the majesty (glory, splendor) and the power (might and dominion) forever and ever." [Revelation 5:13, Amplified].

Yes, He purposes in His sovereign will that all human history shall be consummated in Christ. Everything that exists in heaven and earth shall find its perfection and fulfillment in Him. AII things shall "center in and tend to consummate and to end in Him." [Romans 11:36, Amplified].

Though the ages run their course, and the time seems long; though the judgments are required and the discipline is severe; though there be many paths washed with tears, and the valley be deep, yet God hath purposed that all shall be fully restored, and the great age of jubilee shall see a universe redeemed from the tyranny of change and decay, delivered into the glorious liberty which rightfully belongs to the children of God, and the whole purpose of the ages shall rebound to the glory of God. We bow to worship HIM who truly "doeth all things well."

The blood of Jesus will reconsile all of God's people back to his devive favor

 

[Ben12]

Ben, you know that I dont believe in hell, because it was introduced into the bible. However, I do believe that the condemed lose their lives as a result of their choice. Because the words for a eternity are use repetedly, and in different ways, it would be logical to conclude that it is final. unless you can provide scripture that shows a different outcome. This question is asked provided it is that you believe no one is lost. So I ask; do you believe that no one is lost for all eternity?

We are all over the place on these debates; I have shown this scripturally in so many ways; in so many posts. Here are a couple verse that declare it and I just posted as well as look at the post on reconciliation.

Luke 3: 6 (amp) And all mankind shall see (behold and [a]understand and at last acknowledge) the salvation of God (the deliverance from eternal death decreed by God).

Clearly it is written, "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in His own order; Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming." (I Cor. 15:22-23). There is no doubt concerning the totality of salvation for every man-- whatever was affected by death through Adam, shall be MADE ALIVE THROUGH CHRIST. The triumph of Christ is far greater than the sin of Adam. But the point that is before us is that of TIMING-- with "every man in his own order." There is DIVINE ORDER in this NEW CREATION that is being brought forth, as God gathers one by one a people unto Himself. From Calvary until this present time, God has been working in what is rightly termed "HIS FIRSTFRUITS." We who are living at the ending of this age (web ed. note: which still could be a long ways away) are still being drawn into this "firstfruits order." But never forget, the firstfruits of a harvest are the PROMISE that all the rest of the harvest will follow in its time.

Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)​

It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.​

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