the worst foreign policy debacle since the Vietnam War.

[RDKirk]

First, sending military who had no clear mission into the middle of a civil war; one that started in 1975, but we didn't go in until 1982. Next, failing to provide proper security for the barracks in an area of the world which was known to use car/truck bombs -- and again, in the middle of a civil war. That failure looks even worse, considering that six months earlier the US Embassy had been attacked, with 17 Americans killed, by a van packed with explosives. Last, while the American military was to secure a section of Beirut near the airport, the general had not been allowed to maintain a secure perimeter -- part of the reason the truck bomb could make it into the sector (but still leaves the issue of why he easily broke through the barracks defensive perimeter).

It is worth noting that the marines left Beirut, other than a handful to protect the US embassy, just four months after the bombing -- despite the civil war still being fought, it wouldn't end until 1990. It begs the question, since we where there for the middle year of a 15 year long civil war, what were doing and what did we accomplish?

That attack had slipped my mind, but I agree that it takes the lead of debacles since the Vietnam war.

 

[durangodawood]

First, sending military who had no clear mission into the middle of a civil war; one that started in 1975, but we didn't go in until 1982. Next, failing to provide proper security for the barracks in an area of the world which was known to use car/truck bombs -- and again, in the middle of a civil war. That failure looks even worse, considering that six months earlier the US Embassy had been attacked, with 17 Americans killed, by a van packed with explosives. Last, while the American military was to secure a section of Beirut near the airport, the general had not been allowed to maintain a secure perimeter -- part of the reason the truck bomb could make it into the sector (but still leaves the issue of why he easily broke through the barracks defensive perimeter).

It is worth noting that the marines left Beirut, other than a handful to protect the US embassy, just four months after the bombing -- despite the civil war still being fought, it wouldn't end until 1990. It begs the question, since we where there for the middle year of a 15 year long civil war, what were doing and what did we accomplish?

Ah. Thanks for the reminder. I think that qualifies as a debacle, and worse than the Afg withdrawal.

It's also worth reiterating RDs point that the worst outcomes of our Afg withdrawal were baked into the situation. There was no withdrawal option that would have prevented Taliban taking control of the entire country. Telling that the trump administration's primary negotiating counterpart was the Taliban, and not the Afg government.

 

[Pommer]

Except that prior to Biden doing this our military advisors said Mr President do not do what you want to do, it will cost American lives, Afghani lives, leave our allies in a difficult potion, hurt our image throughout the world and encourage and embolden our enemies, but making political points was much more important to Biden so he did what he wanted to do.

How do you come by these internal Administration deliberations?

 

[Pommer]

No I am not an astrophysicist either but I recognize the sun when I see it.

You’re not alone on that one!

 

[disciple Clint]

And yet, nowhere near as bad as the failure in Vietnam. It's ridiculous to say so.

But only you have said so.

Nothing like this happened in Vietnam.
Unprecedented Dishonor: UK Holds Biden in Contempt for 'Shameful' and 'Catastrophic' Afghanistan Withdrawal
"the British Houses of Parliament decided to hold Biden’s handling of the situation in contempt, with lawmakers condemning his withdrawal plan as “catastrophic” and “shameful,”
Members of parliament from across the political spectrum were forceful in their rebuke of Biden.
“The American decision to withdraw was not just a mistake — it was an avoidable mistake, from President Trump’s flawed deal with the Taliban to President Biden’s decision to proceed, and to proceed in such a disastrous way,” Liberal Democrat Leader Sir Ed Davey said.
“The Biden government have just come in and, without looking at what is happening on the ground, have taken a unilateral decision, throwing us and everybody else to the fire,” Mahmood said. Lord Howard, a former Tory leader, described Biden’s withdrawal as “a catastrophic mistake which may well prove to be the defining legacy of his presidency.”
UK Parliament Makes Unprecedented Decision to Hold Biden in Contempt

 

[RDKirk]

Nothing like this happened in Vietnam.
Unprecedented Dishonor: UK Holds Biden in Contempt for 'Shameful' and 'Catastrophic' Afghanistan Withdrawal
"the British Houses of Parliament decided to hold Biden’s handling of the situation in contempt, with lawmakers condemning his withdrawal plan as “catastrophic” and “shameful,”
Members of parliament from across the political spectrum were forceful in their rebuke of Biden.
“The American decision to withdraw was not just a mistake — it was an avoidable mistake, from President Trump’s flawed deal with the Taliban to President Biden’s decision to proceed, and to proceed in such a disastrous way,” Liberal Democrat Leader Sir Ed Davey said.
“The Biden government have just come in and, without looking at what is happening on the ground, have taken a unilateral decision, throwing us and everybody else to the fire,” Mahmood said. Lord Howard, a former Tory leader, described Biden’s withdrawal as “a catastrophic mistake which may well prove to be the defining legacy of his presidency.”
UK Parliament Makes Unprecedented Decision to Hold Biden in Contempt

You clearly don't remember the Vietnam War and all the shameful events that happened during the war, including the self-inflicted and continuing deaths caused by Agent Orange. You clearly have not traced the names of people you know from the Vietnam War Memorial wall.

Shrill hooting by a Tory Brit is irrelevant.

 

[disciple Clint]

Last, I checked, Trump is the only sitting president who had to take a “Cognitive Test” to prove that all his faculties are there. Keep in mind, it wasn’t Democrat who made Trump take the “Cognitive Test” , it was Trumps own doctor suggested to take the test, and then Trump went to media to brag about how he passed the “Cognitive Test”- Person , camera , Woman , TV !

Lets not leave this as a half truth. Trump was being cast by the liberal media as being impaired. He requested the test (not his doctor),he completed the test with a perfect score and the liberal media received the slap in the face that they earned.

 

[disciple Clint]

How do you come by these internal Administration deliberations?

they are part of a public hearing reported on in the media and televised, it is available to everyone who cares to stay informed.

 

[disciple Clint]

You clearly don't remember the Vietnam War and all the shameful events that happened during the war, including the self-inflicted and continuing deaths caused by Agent Orange. You clearly have not traced the names of people you know from the Vietnam War Memorial wall.

Shrill hooting by a Tory Brit is irrelevant.

I did not miss that one either. AND at no point in time in the past has any of our presidents been held in contempt by parliament, that is a distinction that only Biden could accomplish.

 

[Pommer]

they are part of a public hearing reported on in the media and televised, it is available to everyone who cares to stay informed.

Great, Post the link to these videos please!

 

[durangodawood]

People have utterly abandoned perspective in their zeal for politics.

Party first. Country second. Reality third. Or tenth.

 

[disciple Clint]

Great, Post the link to these videos please!

something wrong with your Google search engine?

 

[Pommer]

something wrong with your Google search engine?

Thanks.
It sure got interesting @49:20 when General McKenzie stated that he thought they’d need at least 4000 troops to safely evacuate way back in the fall of 2020 when Biden was standing in his basement.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Nothing like this happened in Vietnam.
Unprecedented Dishonor: UK Holds Biden in Contempt for 'Shameful' and 'Catastrophic' Afghanistan Withdrawal

Maybe because the British weren’t involved in Vietnam...

 

[disciple Clint]

Maybe because the British weren’t involved in Vietnam...

That does not limit their Parliament's ability to hold someone in contempt

 

[Pommer]

Nothing like this happened in Vietnam.
Unprecedented Dishonor: UK Holds Biden in Contempt for 'Shameful' and 'Catastrophic' Afghanistan Withdrawal

Maybe because the British weren’t involved in Vietnam...

That does not limit their Parliament's ability to hold someone in contempt

Parliament didn’t hold anybody “in contempt” over Vietnam because their Nation wasn’t involved in the conflict, but they could have?!?
Mercy!

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

That does not limit their Parliament's ability to hold someone in contempt

In contempt of what, exactly?

 

[durangodawood]

That does not limit their Parliament's ability to hold someone in contempt

Why didnt Trump include the UK in withdrawal negotiations with the Taliban?

 

[Arcangl86]

That does not limit their Parliament's ability to hold someone in contempt

Which didn't actually happen. But what importance are facts in this discussion.

 

[disciple Clint]

Why didnt Trump include the UK in withdrawal negotiations with the Taliban?

What makes you think that he didnt?