The Veil

[LittleLambofJesus]

We wear hijab because we are ordained by God. We wear it with pride as an act of faith and worship. It is not oppression! We are honouring God! Do you walk up to a Nun and talk to her the way you talk here?

Good point.

 

[Exegete12]

Hello Sis AlHannah.

Maybe this may help a little.



From http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/w_islam/veil.htm

By the way, covering the entire face is not required for Muslim women.

BUT, it is still man made religion to do that, God has not ordained it to be so, otherwise in the beginning when he dressed Adam and Eve, he would have done that.

No where in the Law of Moses does it say for women to be dressed this way, so here the Jews were again putting their own religious observances and practices on to them less educated.

 

[Exegete12]

Peace:

How can this topic possibly be 8 pages long??

I am a Muslimah and on the 2nd or 3rd page of this thread I explained exactly why we wear Hijab. It is not complex, there are no conspiracies, there are no ulterior motives. We wear hijab because we are ordained by God. We wear it with pride as an act of faith and worship. It is not oppression! We are honouring God! Do you walk up to a Nun and talk to her the way you talk here? She wears her habit for the same reasons...an act of faith and worship. My aunt, a Nun, looked wonderful in her habit and not once did I think she was oppressed. I have an enormous amount of respect for her for her display of devotion and love of God. And yet, you look at us wearing a simple piece of cloth and call us oppressed and God knows what else.

Which part of that do you not understand?

Why do you critisize us for covering while Paul tells women to cover your head in church or have your hair shaved off, and yet, you don't do it!! Don't condemn us for following our holy book while you do not.

It's a piece of cloth representing our love and devotion to Allah, swt, as ordained in the Qur'an. And it is worn with absolute pride in our devotion to our faith.

Ask yourself, if God almighty came to you today and told you to take a piece of cloth and cover as a symbol of your faith and modesty...would you do it or tell Him no? WE believe we are told to do it. WE are obeying what we believe is the word of God. Please tell me what is so horribly wrong with that?

With peace,
Kathaleen

Peace Kathaleen.
It is great to have a muslimah on board, I wondered where they all were.

I have no problem with a woman so wishing to wear hijaab. That is there choice, but women in Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia – they do not have the choice whether they will wear it or not. They HAVE to. You don't HAVE to, you live your Islamic faith in a western country. If you lived your Islamic faith in an Islam country, things would be very different, for a start you probably wouldn't even be able to read or write. No offence intended, I am just trying to show you how we perceive the veil in the west and how we do perceive it as a sign of oppression for woman who have to wear it in Islamic countries.

Don't you know they get a flogging in Afghanistan if it accidently falls off. Don't you know a woman in Afghanistan can never really appreciate real colour as she had to see it through a gauze in her burqa. No blue skies for her, just gray skies. She could only wear her burqa off at home, and even some homes the woman had to keep their burqa on, because the older jealous wives get jealous of the young wives, so they make sure they keep their burqa on even in their own home. Now you tell me that isn't oppression?????

 

[ammuslim]

Bismillah:

Peace Kathaleen.
It is great to have a muslimah on board, I wondered where they all were.

I have no problem with a woman so wishing to wear hijaab. That is there choice, but women in Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia – they do not have the choice whether they will wear it or not. They HAVE to. You don't HAVE to, you live your Islamic faith in a western country. If you lived your Islamic faith in an Islam country, things would be very different, for a start you probably wouldn't even be able to read or write. No offence intended, I am just trying to show you how we perceive the veil in the west and how we do perceive it as a sign of oppression for woman who have to wear it in Islamic countries.

Don't you know they get a flogging in Afghanistan if it accidently falls off. Don't you know a woman in Afghanistan can never really appreciate real colour as she had to see it through a gauze in her burqa. No blue skies for her, just gray skies. She could only wear her burqa off at home, and even some homes the woman had to keep their burqa on, because the older jealous wives get jealous of the young wives, so they make sure they keep their burqa on even in their own home. Now you tell me that isn't oppression?????

I am sorry but have you been to these places to make your judgment? And even if there are some Islamic countries forcing women to wear Hijab, this is have nothing to do with Islam. You cannot compare Islam with what individual people do or what Muslim society does.

Who is forcing the Muslim women to wear Hijab in America, UK, Australia, France, and all other European countries?

We normally give the answer according to Islam and not according to some Muslim countries. Islam is based on 2 sources, The Qur'an and the sunnah of our beloved prophet, so stick to these 2 sources.

Salam
Wael.

 

[Kathaleen]

Peace Kathaleen.
It is great to have a muslimah on board, I wondered where they all were.

I have no problem with a woman so wishing to wear hijaab. That is there choice, but women in Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia – they do not have the choice whether they will wear it or not. They HAVE to. You don't HAVE to, you live your Islamic faith in a western country. If you lived your Islamic faith in an Islam country, things would be very different, for a start you probably wouldn't even be able to read or write. No offence intended, I am just trying to show you how we perceive the veil in the west and how we do perceive it as a sign of oppression for woman who have to wear it in Islamic countries.

Don't you know they get a flogging in Afghanistan if it accidently falls off. Don't you know a woman in Afghanistan can never really appreciate real colour as she had to see it through a gauze in her burqa. No blue skies for her, just gray skies. She could only wear her burqa off at home, and even some homes the woman had to keep their burqa on, because the older jealous wives get jealous of the young wives, so they make sure they keep their burqa on even in their own home. Now you tell me that isn't oppression?????

Peace:

First, there are no truly Islamic countries in the world, there are predominately Muslim countries, but not one country abides only by the Laws of Sharia.

That being said, are there some governments that operate and enforce laws not found in the Sharia....yup, absolutely. Do some of them oppress their people...not only women...definitely!! Are women forced to wear a burqua in some countries...yes. However, that is not Islam. For example, Saudia Arabia comes the closest to implementing the laws of Sharia, but they have man made laws and they are also governed by a Royal Family which itself is not within the folds of Islam. Forcing women to cover is not Islamic, forcing men to the mosque to pray is not Islamic. You have to seperate the true teachings of Islam from these governments. Islam is perfect, it's followers are not.

That being said, I know many, many women from Saudi Arabia, (and men too), that are totally against these man made laws, but none I have met is willing to remove their Hijab in protest. Wearing the hijab IS part of Islamic teachings and they would proudly wear it, many love the Burqua and would continue to wear it as well, just as many sisters love to wear the face covering. What they don't like is going outside the teachings of Islam and implementing laws that do not exist. This too is forbidden in Islam.

I stayed in a predominately Muslim country for over a month when I was a Christian and no one tried to force me to do anything and as a matter of fact I was asked on many occassions if I wanted to go to the church to pray.

Living in the west and not having a complete understanding of Islamic teachings, I understand how it is difficult to seperate the true teachings of Islam from what you see on CNN or the stories you might hear. But, you do have to be very careful to seperate the two. Just because a country is predominately Muslim, does not mean it is an Islamic country.

There are many countries that call themselves a "democracy" that forbid the wearing of the Hijab or showing anything that would represent faith, ie a cross on a necklace. Would you say this is a true democracy? Democracy and freedom is what the USA, for example, tries to promote. France claims they are, but forbids these things. So are they true representatives of the freedom democracy claims to have?

With peace,
Kathaleen

 

[Fares]

Peace Kathaleen.
It is great to have a muslimah on board, I wondered where they all were.

I have no problem with a woman so wishing to wear hijaab. That is there choice, but women in Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia – they do not have the choice whether they will wear it or not. They HAVE to. You don't HAVE to, you live your Islamic faith in a western country. If you lived your Islamic faith in an Islam country, things would be very different, for a start you probably wouldn't even be able to read or write. No offence intended, I am just trying to show you how we perceive the veil in the west and how we do perceive it as a sign of oppression for woman who have to wear it in Islamic countries.

And even in the west. This girls have brothers, fathers and cousins. A muslim girl is never free she always has what they call "Wali amer", a protector or something like that.

Don't you know they get a flogging in Afghanistan if it accidently falls off. Don't you know a woman in Afghanistan can never really appreciate real colour as she had to see it through a gauze in her burqa. No blue skies for her, just gray skies. She could only wear her burqa off at home, and even some homes the woman had to keep their burqa on, because the older jealous wives get jealous of the young wives, so they make sure they keep their burqa on even in their own home. Now you tell me that isn't oppression?????

Afghanistan is a pretty special place.
So lets not take it as an example.

I am sorry but have you been to these places to make your judgment? And even if there are some Islamic countries forcing women to wear Hijab, this is have nothing to do with Islam. You cannot compare Islam with what individual people do or what Muslim society does.

I live in Palestine/Israel, I see this daily.
The Sharia itself commands women to wear the hijab, so it has everything to do with Islam. Well yes we can when the majority of muslims are doing this things, it show what the religion is. If all this are not real muslims why then do you also say "Islam is the fastest growing religion" ? Why the double standart ? Either this majority are muslims, either they aren't.

Who is forcing the Muslim women to wear Hijab in America, UK, Australia, France, and all other European countries?

Brothers, fathers, cousins, the muslims society in those same countries. Have you never heard of honor killing ? Go ahead and tell me those to are not muslims.

We normally give the answer according to Islam and not according to some Muslim countries. Islam is based on 2 sources, The Qur'an and the sunnah of our beloved prophet, so stick to these 2 sources.

The sharia tells you that women must wear the hijab.
Its not an option but a command.


To this sudden appear of a muslimah especially on the veil subject, I find it very weird.
Coincidence ? I doubt it.
And as I showed in another thread, muslims have the right and duty to lie to promote Islam,
wich make me doubt her and her words even more.

So I will repeat it again, their is a very small minority that freely ( No pressure from the society or family ) wears the hijab and we must respect their dicisions, but we must help this majority forced to wear the hijab to break out free from this oppression called Islam.

PS: If all this muslims are not true muslims, if all this muslim countires are not Islamic countries, then why do you call the USA invading Iraq and Afghanistan a crusade against muslims and Islam ? Double standart.

Dont you love when you catch them lieing ?

 

[Exegete12]

Bismillah:


Who is forcing the Muslim women to wear Hijab in America, UK, Australia, France, and all other European countries?
Salam
Wael.[/COLOR]

Precisely my point. Your interpretation of the Koran is only achieved in western based societies, not Islamic ones.

 

[Fares]

Precisely my point. Your interpretation of the Koran is only achieved in western based societies, not Islamic ones.

Even then they are not free of their muslim society.
The only women who are really free are the converts.
They have no muslim brothers/fathers, no one is forcing them, yet they wear it.

 

[kit]

The purpose of hijab is contradicted in Western society. If a woman wears extremely distinctive covering then she invites attention rather than escaping it. Wearing conservative unrevealing dress would fit the spirit of hijab better in Western countries.

 

[SedjmNeter]

P.E.A.C.E and Blessings...

God has not ordained it to be so, otherwise in the beginning when he dressed Adam and Eve, he would have done that.

What kind of logic is that, if God had got it right at the beginning then there would have been no need for Jesus.

SHEM HETEP

 

[Asherz]

The purpose of hijab is contradicted in Western society. If a woman wears extremely distinctive covering then she invites attention rather than escaping it. Wearing conservative unrevealing dress would fit the spirit of hijab better in Western countries.

I've always thought the same thing. Everyone just stares at the Muslim women who wear the hijaab. I live in the middle of a desert so even those who do not wear a head covering but long pants and long sleeved clothes attract weird looks.

 

[akulion]

And even in the west. This girls have brothers, fathers and cousins. A muslim girl is never free she always has what they call "Wali amer", a protector or something like that.

yes, most do have a father and/or brother to protect them. how is that bad? you assume freedom means she should be able to go out in tube tops and mini skirts. a muslimah and her family have more respect towards women than that.

Afghanistan is a pretty special place.
So lets not take it as an example.

yes, it is a very special place.

I live in Palestine/Israel, I see this daily.
The Sharia itself commands women to wear the hijab, so it has everything to do with Islam. Well yes we can when the majority of muslims are doing this things, it show what the religion is. If all this are not real muslims why then do you also say "Islam is the fastest growing religion" ? Why the double standart ? Either this majority are muslims, either they aren't.

bring the specific law commanding that.

Brothers, fathers, cousins, the muslims society in those same countries. Have you never heard of honor killing ? Go ahead and tell me those to are not muslims.

yes, heard of it and it has nothing to do with Islam. It happens in tribal areas in many different places not just amongst muslims. ask a hindu women in India about disfigurement and honor killings.

The sharia tells you that women must wear the hijab.
Its not an option but a command.

as i said...bring the law.

To this sudden appear of a muslimah especially on the veil subject, I find it very weird.
Coincidence ? I doubt it.
And as I showed in another thread, muslims have the right and duty to lie to promote Islam,
wich make me doubt her and her words even more.

again, bring your proof. show the verse. are you accusing someone without proofs? are you so confused by what she said that your only response is to question her gender? looool

So I will repeat it again, their is a very small minority that freely ( No pressure from the society or family ) wears the hijab and we must respect their dicisions, but we must help this majority forced to wear the hijab to break out free from this oppression called Islam.

talk is cheap, show the statistics and the authenticity of how they were collected. did you personally interview the majority of sisters wearing hijab?

PS: If all this muslims are not true muslims, if all this muslim countires are not Islamic countries, then why do you call the USA invading Iraq and Afghanistan a crusade against muslims and Islam ? Double standart.

maybe because Muslims live there????

Dont you love when you catch them lieing ?

don't know, i haven't caught one yet, but we do see someone pretending to have knowledge with no proof to back one word said. what Islamic school did you attend and what degree did you acquire? what area of the shariah law did you specialize in? what school of thought do you prefer and why is that?

aku

 

[yaqovzadeek]

I've always thought the same thing. Everyone just stares at the Muslim women who wear the hijaab. I live in the middle of a desert so even those who do not wear a head covering but long pants and long sleeved clothes attract weird looks.

And what about those who bear their breasts and butts don't they get weird look or are they the norm where you live.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka james the just

 

[kit]

At one time in our (Western) culture the term "show a little ankle" could drive men wild with desire. When they didn't ever see women's anatomy it hightened their sense of desire. If we see other people's bodies they become normal and we don't lust so much after what we already know.

 

[Fares]

What kind of logic is that, if God had got it right at the beginning then there would have been no need for Jesus.

This is not the topic.
But you missed the point of Jesus on earth.
He is not here to correct things, he was here to give us a hand.

And what about those who bear their breasts and butts don't they get weird look or are they the norm where you live.

Let me guess you know a girl who goes to church every sunday that walks with her breats and butts out ? Lol.
This was never the norm anywhere but in porn/mtv.
Not our problem/fault you are 24/7 stuck to this films.
Grow up, stop generaliazing.

Plus I thought you had no time to refute my claims ?

And even in the west. This girls have brothers, fathers and cousins. A muslim girl is never free she always has what they call "Wali amer", a protector or something like that.

yes, most do have a father and/or brother to protect them. how is that bad? you assume freedom means she should be able to go out in tube tops and mini skirts. a muslimah and her family have more respect towards women than that.

Again you are talking out of ignorancy.
A woman was born free and should die free.
What she does, is not of your bussness.
God is the only judge.
You have no authority on no one but yourself.
This is not self respect but backward ideas, primitive ideas.

Afghanistan is a pretty special place.
So lets not take it as an example.

yes, it is a very special place.

I am so happy you agree with me.

I live in Palestine/Israel, I see this daily.
The Sharia itself commands women to wear the hijab, so it has everything to do with Islam. Well yes we can when the majority of muslims are doing this things, it show what the religion is. If all this are not real muslims why then do you also say "Islam is the fastest growing religion" ? Why the double standart ? Either this majority are muslims, either they aren't.

bring the specific law commanding that.

Not only I will bring Sharia Law that commands that but also hadith.

Brothers, fathers, cousins, the muslims society in those same countries. Have you never heard of honor killing ? Go ahead and tell me those to are not muslims.

yes, heard of it and it has nothing to do with Islam. It happens in tribal areas in many different places not just amongst muslims. ask a hindu women in India about disfigurement and honor killings.

Well it has alot to do with Islam.
If a muslima does not live by the command of Allah,
wich is the Sharia, she is commiting a crime.
A muslim family would rather kill her daughter, then see her break the rules.
Its like apostates, they get killed usually by their own family.
Family values in Islam are remarkable .

The sharia tells you that women must wear the hijab.
Its not an option but a command.

as i said...bring the law.

I will bring it...but then what ?

To this sudden appear of a muslimah especially on the veil subject, I find it very weird.
Coincidence ? I doubt it.
And as I showed in another thread, muslims have the right and duty to lie to promote Islam,
wich make me doubt her and her words even more.

again, bring your proof. show the verse. are you accusing someone without proofs? are you so confused by what she said that your only response is to question her gender? looool

Its common sense.
Someone opens a thread about the veil and suddenly a muslimah comes out of the blue and defend it ?
Unless she has the 6 sense, I dont see how that could happen ?

Her gender is an important matter here because if she aint a girl all her posts are worthless because they are a lie.

So I will repeat it again, their is a very small minority that freely ( No pressure from the society or family ) wears the hijab and we must respect their dicisions, but we must help this majority forced to wear the hijab to break out free from this oppression called Islam.

talk is cheap, show the statistics and the authenticity of how they were collected. did you personally interview the majority of sisters wearing hijab?

Did you ?

PS: If all this muslims are not true muslims, if all this muslim countires are not Islamic countries, then why do you call the USA invading Iraq and Afghanistan a crusade against muslims and Islam ? Double standart.

maybe because Muslims live there????

But you said they are not muslims.

Dont you love when you catch them lieing ?

don't know, i haven't caught one yet, but we do see someone pretending to have knowledge with no proof to back one word said. what Islamic school did you attend and what degree did you acquire? what area of the shariah law did you specialize in? what school of thought do you prefer and why is that?

The day muslims will have free speeches you will see figures.
I aint a muslim scholar but I do read arabic, I did read the Quran and I am been trained to solve problems.
Islam is the biggest problem I have encountered, with the help of Jesus, Ali Sina and all freedoom lovers, I will be among those who will bring it down.

I dont tolerate a religion that does not tolerate.

Come home with this shield or upon it - A Spartan woman equips her son

 

[Exegete12]

At one time in our (Western) culture the term "show a little ankle" could drive men wild with desire. When they didn't ever see women's anatomy it hightened their sense of desire. If we see other people's bodies they become normal and we don't lust so much after what we already know.

Yeah, I think this is so. Look at the woman of Papua New Guinea in the jungle, they have their breasts exposed, and it means nothing to the men, because they view them as just feeding appendages for the children. But us in the West who cover those areas view them differently, likewise I guess men in Islamic countries if they see an ankle or wrist ... well you said Kit, guess they have to do a lot of lowering their gazes. LOL.

 

[Fares]

So according to what AlHannah and kit just said:

Islam leads to perversion.

Interresting, I will study this furthermore.
Going to get on it right away, see you later.
AlHannah and Kit, thank you for this eye opening.

 

[Asherz]

And what about those who bear their breasts and butts don't they get weird look or are they the norm where you live.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka james the just

They get weird looks too. Why? Because it is totally out of place, so it draws attention. In fact, just a few days ago a few of my male coursemates were discussing a particular girl who always wears extremely lowcut shirts. They felt it was inappropriate. I was proud of them.

 

[warghaha]

Yeah, I think this is so. Look at the woman of Papua New Guinea in the jungle, they have their breasts exposed, and it means nothing to the men, because they view them as just feeding appendages for the children. But us in the West who cover those areas view them differently, likewise I guess men in Islamic countries if they see an ankle or wrist ... well you said Kit, guess they have to do a lot of lowering their gazes. LOL.

Well, you make this issue too small with that comment, I think.

In the West, there're common if you see women there wearing swimming suits running on the beach. By, your suggestion, the men there supposed to immune with that. But it's not. There'll be no so-called soft-porn if men was immune to that thing.

The issue here is when you're in public. 100 man with 100 characters. Are you sure those men in New Guinea didn't have a wild fantasy at least, sometimes? This Hijab thing does not to prevent rape only. There's much wider scope.

So beware with men, Al-Hannah. They're not like you think.

Salaam.

 

[kit]

So according to what AlHannah and kit just said:

Islam leads to perversion.

Interresting, I will study this furthermore.
Going to get on it right away, see you later.
AlHannah and Kit, thank you for this eye opening.

Well that is adding meaning to what I said.