The Veil

[yasser]

My bad man, like an idiot I followed him in this childish game.
My apologies.

Your apology is not accepted..yet i sympathize with you..you know why??!!! Painful??Huh

 

[Clark_98C]

Your apology is not accepted..yet i sympathize with you..you know why??!!! Painful??Huh

And so the world spirals down into darkness.

 

[warghaha]

In order for a man to accuse his wife of adultery he need to have 4 witnesses. On this we agree.

I'm glad, at last we agree on something.
With this agreement, I guess we'd setteled your arguement of : "if a rape victim can't bring 4 witnesses, she'll be accused of adultery", right?

But for a woman to accuse a man of raping she needs 4 witnesses. Check the Quran you will see it.

First, you called me a liar. - I smiled.
Then you said I knew Quran was liying, yet I still believe it. - I thanked you for that.
Now you want me to check the Quran and bring you the verse. - So, I've to ask you, will you believe me? I'm a liar, a hypocrite in your eyes. Or should I poison your food or your thought?

Anyway, you said you're the expert. Care to bring me the verse from the Quran to share with us? You're the honest man, rght?
If you ask me, I'll not change me statement regarding this matter (Like my previous posts: post #27 and post #34).

. No I aint. And you ?

That's the past that I wanna erase.

Its not about agreeing or not...
Its like saying if you are thursty go drink.

Yeah! It's obvious statement. But the essesnce we should look into, right? You said Islam didn't treat rape victims as they supposed to. How can it be when Islam view the rape case as an oppression and oppresion is worse than murder? That's my point, actually. But that's ok if you don't want to agree with a liar like me

Salaam.

 

[MercuryAndy]

it is not possible to have a false opinion.

 

[yaqovzadeek]

it is not possible to have a false opinion.

hey Jimmy your favourite TV program will be On soon "watch with mother". the kiddies TV progarm so run along now go and watch with mother.Are you ready.
a b c d e f g.
See you Jimmy
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka James the Just

 

[MercuryAndy]

hey Jimmy your favourite TV program will be On soon "watch with mother". the kiddies TV progarm so run along now go and watch with mother.Are you ready.
a b c d e f g.
See you Jimmy
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka James the Just

You couldnt have just answered my question but no you have to patronise me and not answer the question.

 

[yaqovzadeek]

Garnet, saying the truth is now been hostile ?
First a piece of cloth gives you honor and now saying the truth is hostile.
Where is this world going ? Sad.
Garnet, I see Islam behind the veil they call "Islam is peace". One day you will see it.


Why do you throw cheap talk ? Prouve this wrong.

Do you know how muslims call the non-muslim lands ?
Dar Al-Harb. The House of War.
So muslims are actually constantly in war, against who ?
Infidels - All non-muslims.
Now according to Yago



So muslims have the right to lie to us because we are their ennemies.

Again he raised this issue ionce and he was refuted about this house of wwar issue.he speaks arabic , knows the truth but distorts it for others who do not understand, show me one verse uin the Quran where non muslim land is referred to constantly as dar al harb.Again as i said in my previous post Abysinnia modern ady ethopia was a non muslim land right next to arabia, it never one day referred to as dar al harb.You are a liar and deceiver, and if that is the way you intend to get converts iam afraid you are wrong Sam shamoun has been lying and deceiving fro year until now he has not had a single convert.
peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka James the just

 

[Exegete12]

Salams Lady hannah, sorry to bust you bubble but there is currently no Islamic nation on this planet at the moment. And surfing the internet for Islamic references from non Islamic sources.I think you yourself would agree with me the Internet search engines do not actually belong to muslim sand those promoting and telling truths about Islam now do they.They are many sites masqeurading as islamic to that are not all to do with Islam they are Christians using a common true christian tool to promote other religions.it is called deception.Ask fares he is a master at it.
peace
Yaqwovzadeek
aka James the Just

Fares says: "because according to the Quran you have a duty to lie in order to promote Islam.
Its called Al-Taqqiya."

Okay Yaqov tell me what is Al-Taqqiya. Please I am all ears.

 

[MercuryAndy]

Fares says: "because according to the Quran you have a duty to lie in order to promote Islam.
Its called Al-Taqqiya."

Okay Yaqov tell me what is Al-Taqqiya. Please I am all ears.

so does that mean i was correct when i said muslems could lie in the interests of islam.

 

[yaqovzadeek]

Fares says: "because according to the Quran you have a duty to lie in order to promote Islam.
Its called Al-Taqqiya."

Okay Yaqov tell me what is Al-Taqqiya. Please I am all ears.

I have explained this before ansd fares agreed too then he decides to resurface again with the same lie.
Taqiyya is used mainly by the shi'a it is a way of hiding the the truth.they use it to lie about a lot of thing.However in islam there are 4 reasons a person can lie. (here we go again I have to explain this again)
1.One can lie under pressure of renouncing his Islam, if his life is in danger and he is threatened to be killed.
2. In a state of war you can tell lies to you enemies to demoralise them, like inform the capture or killing of their leader.
3. A man to please his wife in order not to break her heart can lie to here in a case where for example she likes something, that is not really nice but he does not , he can say yeah it is nice i like it just to make here happy and not break her heart.
4.A muslim is allowed to tell lies to reconcile two people who have had disagreements.like tell one that the other said kind words about him and tell the other the same thing so it makes each other softer to one another then reconcile them.
There is nowher that Islam allows Lies to Promote Islam.Deceit and Lies is what people like fares and the rest use to make people hate Islam.If the Shi'a use Taqqiya to promote their Islam tthat has nothing to do withme and the sunni majority and fares knows that very well.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
Akka James the Just

 

[Fares]

Again he raised this issue ionce and he was refuted about this house of wwar issue.he speaks arabic , knows the truth but distorts it for others who do not understand, show me one verse uin the Quran where non muslim land is referred to constantly as dar al harb.Again as i said in my previous post Abysinnia modern ady ethopia was a non muslim land right next to arabia, it never one day referred to as dar al harb.You are a liar and deceiver, and if that is the way you intend to get converts iam afraid you are wrong Sam shamoun has been lying and deceiving fro year until now he has not had a single convert.

Lol. Whats up with all this accusations ? .
I am Sam Shamoun ? The author in Answering-Islam ?
Ok Yago, put down that weed, you are scaring me.
And please stop with the cheap talk, its getting boring.
You usually copy/paste things, but this time you didn't ? I wounder why ?

Now lets show people that I aint lieing.

Definitions:

Infidels:
Who are the infidels ? Disbeleiver/Non-muslims/Kaffirs.
Kaffirs:
Kaffirs are those who have insulted God. In Islam, the sentence for a insult to God is death. Insulting Mohammed or the Quran is an insult to God also.
DAR-UL-HARB:
"Abode of War." A land ruled by infidels that might, through war, become the "Abode of Islam," dar-ul-Islam.
DAR-UL-ISLAM:
"Abode of Islam." A country where Islamic laws are followed and the ruler is a Muslim.

009.123
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).
SHAKIR: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

009.073
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.
PICKTHAL: O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end.
SHAKIR: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.

009.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

Not only we are infidels but hypocrites.
Talking about prejudice... Sad indeed.

Back to the topic.
Note that the verse dont talk about self defense but about offence. The reason ? They are disbeleivers, "Kaffirs".

1.One can lie under pressure of renouncing his Islam, if his life is in danger and he is threatened to be killed.
2. In a state of war you can tell lies to you enemies to demoralise them, like inform the capture or killing of their leader.
3. A man to please his wife in order not to break her heart can lie to here in a case where for example she likes something, that is not really nice but he does not , he can say yeah it is nice i like it just to make here happy and not break her heart.
4.A muslim is allowed to tell lies to reconcile two people who have had disagreements.like tell one that the other said kind words about him and tell the other the same thing so it makes each other softer to one another then reconcile them.

So muslims are constantly in war against the disbeleivers/infidels/non-muslims/kafirs. As Yago stated in a previous post, a muslim can lie to his ennemy. So common sense tells us muslims can lie to us because they are in war against us. They are constantly in jihad until the world will be under the controle of Islam. Rape, stealing, killing, lieing etc... are forms of jihad.

A peacefull realigion indeed, while I am the hostile one. Shame on me .

 

[Exegete12]

I have explained this before ansd fares agreed too then he decides to resurface again with the same lie.
Taqiyya is used mainly by the shi'a it is a way of hiding the the truth.they use it to lie about a lot of thing.However in islam there are 4 reasons a person can lie. (here we go again I have to explain this again)
1.One can lie under pressure of renouncing his Islam, if his life is in danger and he is threatened to be killed.
2. In a state of war you can tell lies to you enemies to demoralise them, like inform the capture or killing of their leader.
3. A man to please his wife in order not to break her heart can lie to here in a case where for example she likes something, that is not really nice but he does not , he can say yeah it is nice i like it just to make here happy and not break her heart.
4.A muslim is allowed to tell lies to reconcile two people who have had disagreements.like tell one that the other said kind words about him and tell the other the same thing so it makes each other softer to one another then reconcile them.
There is nowher that Islam allows Lies to Promote Islam.Deceit and Lies is what people like fares and the rest use to make people hate Islam.If the Shi'a use Taqqiya to promote their Islam tthat has nothing to do withme and the sunni majority and fares knows that very well.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
Akka James the Just

So it's still deception, how can we trust your word? There is no integrity here. You know when I talk to people, I may be black and white in my answers, but at least they know where they stand. If a mate asks an opinion about something which I think will hurt her, then I tell her the truth but couch it in a way that it will be acceptable to her, without hurting her. I'd prefer to do that rather than deceive, even though there is an element of risk there that it may be taken offensively. It just means you could never trust the person's judgement – you know 'do they really mean that? or are they just saying that?'

 

[warghaha]

Can we discuss things in peace? We have too many hostillities already. At least, respect the thread starter.

Anyway, Fares. Regarding you lates post, we can discuss it on another thread. Garnett had explicitly stated, she don't want her thread goes off-topic. We should respect that.

Salaam.

 

[yaqovzadeek]

Back to the topic.
Note that the verse dont talk about self defense but about offence. The reason ? They are disbeleivers, "Kaffirs".




So muslims are constantly in war against the disbeleivers/infidels/non-muslims/kafirs. As Yago stated in a previous post, a muslim can lie to his ennemy. So common sense tells us muslims can lie to us because they are in war against us. They are constantly in jihad until the world will be under the controle of Islam. Rape, stealing, killing, lieing etc... are forms of jihad.

A peacefull realigion indeed, while I am the hostile one. Shame on me .[/quote]

Lol. Whats up with all this accusations ? .
I am Sam Shamoun ? The author in Answering-Islam ?
Ok Yago, put down that weed, you are scaring me.
And please stop with the cheap talk, its getting boring.
You usually copy/paste things, but this time you didn't ? I wounder why ?
I didn't say you are sam shamoun i said you are like him the same type of deceiver and with his deceiving method he has not had a single convert for so many years.You are birds of a feather one of the same kind.

Now lets show people that I aint lieing.

Definitions:

Infidels:
Who are the infidels ? Disbeleiver/Non-muslims/Kaffirs.
Kaffirs:
Kaffirs are those who have insulted God. In Islam, the sentence for a insult to God is death. Insulting Mohammed or the Quran is an insult to God also.
DAR-UL-HARB:
"Abode of War." A land ruled by infidels that might, through war, become the "Abode of Islam," dar-ul-Islam.
DAR-UL-ISLAM:
"Abode of Islam." A country where Islamic laws are followed and the ruler is a Muslim. .

Infidels

Catholic Encyclopedia on CD-ROM
​

As in ecclesiastical language those who by baptism have received faith in Jesus Christ and have pledged Him their fidelity and called the faithful, so the name infidel is given to those who have not been baptized. The term applies not only to all who are ignorant of the true God, such as pagans of various kinds, but also to those who adore Him but do not recognize Jesus Christ, as Jews, Mohammedans; strictly speaking it may be used of catechumens also, though in early ages they were called Christians; for it is only through baptism that one can enter into the ranks of the faithful.

Yes the word originates from your own people first. Christians refer to Jews and Mohamedans as Infidels why were you not honest and post this.You are a true deceiver but you always get caught.liars always get caught. so again as your other friends try to use deception here you r own religion is giving answers infidels was used by the christians first to describe muslims and others so do you have a problem if I call you an infidel.

Kafir: again I don't know how low you will go to tell your lies but i will be there to denounce your Lies whenever I can.For somebody who speaks arabic you know very well what the word Kafir means but you will never tell the truth.The word Kafir means one who conceals, who hides, in your case one who conceals the truth.

009.123
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).
SHAKIR: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

009.073
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.
PICKTHAL: O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end.
SHAKIR: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.

009.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. .

What dio you expect when Muslims are attacked everyone else we have the right to defend ourselves.Islam is not a religon of mugs where the tanks are in front of your door killing every body and you are erquired to turn the other cheek.Allah Is Just he gives man the right to defend himself .
I will finish off with you klater bela hemar time to finish work
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka James the Just

 

[Fares]

Can we discuss things in peace? We have too many hostillities already. At least, respect the thread starter.

Anyway, Fares. Regarding you lates post, we can discuss it on another thread. Garnett had explicitly stated, she don't want her thread goes off-topic. We should respect that.

Salaam.

I agree with you on this.
Sorry Garnet for destroying your thread.

 

[Exegete12]

Personally, I think the veil takes the identity of a woman away. What was the point of God creating identifying features, if they are just to be shrouded in a cloak of oppression?

 

[seed757]

Personally, I think the veil takes the identity of a woman away. What was the point of God creating identifying features, if they are just to be shrouded in a cloak of oppression?

Would you consider Mary mother of Jesus (pbut) as being oppressed if she were veiled also?

 

[Exegete12]

Would you consider Mary mother of Jesus (pbut) as being oppressed if she were veiled also?

Salaam Seed757:
No Mary was not oppressed, but her veil didn't cover her whole face. It was more protection against the hot sun and dust.

God's first clothing of choice was animal skins, no veils ... how did this change happen?
Who changed it? and Why?
Anyone with any intelligent answers to this?

 

[seed757]

Salaam Seed757:
No Mary was not oppressed, but her veil didn't cover her whole face. It was more protection against the hot sun and dust.

God's first clothing of choice was animal skins, no veils ... how did this change happen?
Who changed it? and Why?
Anyone with any intelligent answers to this?

Hello Sis AlHannah.

Maybe this may help a little.

Finally, let us shed some light on what is considered in the West as the greatest symbol of women's oppression and servitude, the veil or the head cover. Is it true that there is no such thing as the veil in the Judaeo-Christian tradition? Let us set the record straight. According to Rabbi Dr. Menachem M. Brayer (Professor of Biblical Literature at Yeshiva University) in his book, The Jewish woman in Rabbinic literature, it was the custom of Jewish women to go out in public with a head covering which, sometimes, even covered the whole face leaving one eye free. 76 He quotes some famous ancient Rabbis saying," It is not like the daughters of Israel to walk out with heads uncovered" and "Cursed be the man who lets the hair of his wife be seen....a woman who exposes her hair for self-adornment brings poverty." Rabbinic law forbids the recitation of blessings or prayers in the presence of a bareheaded married woman since uncovering the woman's hair is considered "nudity". 77 Dr. Brayer also mentions that "During the Tannaitic period the Jewish woman's failure to cover her head was considered an affront to her modesty. When her head was uncovered she might be fined four hundred zuzim for this offense." Dr. Brayer also explains that veil of the Jewish woman was not always considered a sign of modesty. Sometimes, the veil symbolized a state of distinction and luxury rather than modesty. The veil personified the dignity and superiority of noble women. It also represented a woman's inaccessibility as a sanctified possession of her husband. 78
The veil signified a woman's self-respect and social status. Women of lower classes would often wear the veil to give the impression of a higher standing. The fact that the veil was the sign of nobility was the reason why prostitutes were not permitted to cover their hair in the old Jewish society. However, prostitutes often wore a special headscarf in order to look respectable. 79 Jewish women in Europe continued to wear veils until the nineteenth century when their lives became more intermingled with the surrounding secular culture. The external pressures of the European life in the nineteenth century forced many of them to go out bare-headed. Some Jewish women found it more convenient to replace their traditional veil with a wig as another form of hair covering. Today, most pious Jewish women do not cover their hair except in the synagogue. 80 Some of them, such as the Hasidic sects, still use the wig. 81

From http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/w_islam/veil.htm

By the way, covering the entire face is not required for Muslim women.

 

[Kathaleen]

Peace:

How can this topic possibly be 8 pages long??

I am a Muslimah and on the 2nd or 3rd page of this thread I explained exactly why we wear Hijab. It is not complex, there are no conspiracies, there are no ulterior motives. We wear hijab because we are ordained by God. We wear it with pride as an act of faith and worship. It is not oppression! We are honouring God! Do you walk up to a Nun and talk to her the way you talk here? She wears her habit for the same reasons...an act of faith and worship. My aunt, a Nun, looked wonderful in her habit and not once did I think she was oppressed. I have an enormous amount of respect for her for her display of devotion and love of God. And yet, you look at us wearing a simple piece of cloth and call us oppressed and God knows what else.

Which part of that do you not understand?

Why do you critisize us for covering while Paul tells women to cover your head in church or have your hair shaved off, and yet, you don't do it!! Don't condemn us for following our holy book while you do not.

It's a piece of cloth representing our love and devotion to Allah, swt, as ordained in the Qur'an. And it is worn with absolute pride in our devotion to our faith.

Ask yourself, if God almighty came to you today and told you to take a piece of cloth and cover as a symbol of your faith and modesty...would you do it or tell Him no? WE believe we are told to do it. WE are obeying what we believe is the word of God. Please tell me what is so horribly wrong with that?

With peace,
Kathaleen