The units of Specified Complexity

[Larniavc]

What units of measurements are used to measure specified complexity?

 

[Tanj]

It's a statistical test, so produces a probability, which is unitless.

 

[Radagast]

There's not much math in the "specified complexity" literature. I would have expected the units to be bits.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What units of measurements are used to measure specified complexity?

I don't know, and frankly, I don't care. As far as I can tell, God is presenting to each of us a kind of Rorschach Test. Some people see meaning in the patterns that ripple through our universe ... and many don't.

Done.

 

[mark kennedy]

What units of measurements are used to measure specified complexity?

It depends on what you consider a minimum of parts and functions required. The term used is irreducible complexity. It's really more of an intellectual exercise then anything else.

 

[Larniavc]

It's a statistical test, so produces a probability, which is unitless.

No it isn’t.

Can you tell me how does one define a probability without some form of measurements?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

It's a statistical test, so produces a probability, which is unitless.

A probability of what? calculated how?

 

[Larniavc]

The term used is irreducible complexity.

I’m asking what units if measurement of specified complexity are used when determining if something is irreducibly complex.

If it was simply a function of probability what metrics would be used to determine a non Zero probability (i.e. irreducibly complex)?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

It depends on what you consider a minimum of parts and functions required. The term used is irreducible complexity. It's really more of an intellectual exercise then anything else.

Irreducible complexity is not directly related to specified complexity, as far as I can see - unless you can explain otherwise?

 

[Petros2015]

Can you tell me how does one define a probability without some form of measurements?

Huh. I guess the outcome is the measurement? If I flip a coin, 50% probability we all live from that point forward in a universe where it turned up heads and 50% probability we all live from that point forward in a universe it turned up tails. Is reality the measurement of probability?

 

[mark kennedy]

Irreducible complexity is not directly related to specified complexity, as far as I can see - unless you can explain otherwise?

No, they are not the exact same thing, but they way I've always got it the idea is a minimum number of parts/functions.

 

[mark kennedy]

I’m asking what units if measurement of specified complexity are used when determining if something is irreducibly complex.

If it was simply a function of probability what metrics would be used to determine a non Zero probability (i.e. irreducibly complex)?

Behe used the example of a mouse trap, then extended that discussion to a bacteria flagellum.

 

[Larniavc]

Huh. I guess the outcome is the measurement? If I flip a coin, 50% probability we all live from that point forward in a universe where it turned up heads and 50% probability we all live from that point forward in a universe it turned up tails. Is reality the measurement of probability?

Easy with a coin toss (although it is not quite .5 each way).

But that is not specified complexity: that’s the outcome of a coin toss.

 

[Larniavc]

Behe used the example of a mouse trap, then extended that discussion to a bacteria flagellum.

I know that.

I’m asking what units of measurements is specified complexity measured in.

Is something irreducibly complex when it has how many units of specified complexity?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I know that.

I’m asking what units of measurements is specified complexity measured in.

Is something irreducibly complex when it has how many units of specified complexity?

Something like this involving (supposedly) Kolmogorov complexity:

Specified complexity - Wikipedia

 

[Larniavc]

Something like this involving (supposedly) Kolmogorov complexity:

Specified complexity - Wikipedia

I didn’t know about that.

That’s really interesting. So the cdesign proponentists have a computer prgram that can produce living beings as out puts and thus the length of code to define that is the complexity?

Blimey. I never knew complexity was measured in length.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I didn’t know about that.

That’s really interesting. So the cdesign proponentists have a computer prgram that can produce living beings as out puts and thus the length of code to define that is the complexity?

Blimey. I never knew complexity was measured in length.

I didn't either, which is why I looked it up. (I'm so glad I'm in the BioLogos camp and not the I.D. camp ...)

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

No, they are not the exact same thing, but they way I've always got it the idea is a minimum number of parts/functions.

I don't see how that's relevant to either - can you clarify?

 

[mark kennedy]

I don't see how that's relevant to either - can you clarify?

I don't know what the problem is, irreducible complexity is a minimum number of parts. Specified complexity is more like defining the various parts if I'm getting the right idea here. I don't know what your getting at her Frumious, am I missing something?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Behe used the example of a mouse trap, then extended that discussion to a bacteria flagellum.

The flagellum's been done to death many times here, but the mousetrap too is a bad choice - several versions have been described that show the potential step-wise evolution of such a mousetrap; for example, John McDonald's Reducibly Complex Mousetrap.