The "un-derailable" thread!

[ArmyMatt]

I can't for the life of me figure out what people didn't like about this movie?

my only real gripe is Batman's body count. he is not supposed to kill, especially with guns. that being said, I loved Afleck's portrayal as both Bruce and Batman.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

If you can't afford the DVD/bluray, I'd try Amazon Prime or On Demand if you have cable? Netflix wouldn't have it this early, no.

Yes, I'm trying to develop a list of stuff to watch (hoping it won't take up as much of my life as I've been warned it might over the next couple of months) ... But I'm very glad for the reminder of that one. I intended to add it to one list or another, and forgot about it.

Our libraries are not bad for the area we are in. I LOVED San Bernadino county library system and it was one of the things I regretted about moving from California. But since I'm set up as a teacher in two counties, I have library privileges in both of them. Altogether I can get 9 DVDs at a time, and so far I've found one that I tried to get on Netflix and they didn't have it. Mostly Netflix has more. But they've apparently shifted the shipping protocol, so our 1-disc at a time subscription is getting down to only 4-5 a month, even if I ship back the next day every time. And that's going up again, I think, anyway it's over $10 a month. The library on the other hand will deliver them to a local branch (some have drive-through windows) and will let me have 9 at a time - 38 a month if I checked out the limit and got new ones once a week - all for free. Netflix is losing points with us.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Ah, but you have to remember something, brother Matthew....this is NOT the Batman of the Dark Knight films a la Chris Nolan. This new series is based on/inspired by "The Dark Knight Returns" graphic novel comic of the late 1980's when I was a young man. Notice Bruce has greying hair, he's older, he's tired, he's burned-out, and he's in take-no-prisoners mode. The badguys have upped the ante so much that Batman goes Bad-a!#$ LOL

Ben Affleck is really playing a later Batman with more darkness. Note the branding and darker tactics.

I thought Batman using firearms was WONDERFUL! But then again---you know Gurney! The American Old West backwards gun guy...

my only real gripe is Batman's body count. he is not supposed to kill, especially with guns. that being said, I loved Afleck's portrayal as both Bruce and Batman.

 

[~Anastasia~]

If you can't afford the DVD/bluray, I'd try Amazon Prime or On Demand if you have cable? Netflix wouldn't have it this early, no.

I'm just super-selective of DVDs I buy anymore. Having been collecting them over a good many years, I have too many. I'm still in the process of transferring them to envelopes in storage trays in drawers and putting the cases in the attic because they take up too much space in cases.

I usually wait until I've watched them - usually several times - and I know I'd happily watch it a dozen more times in as many years. The bonus is that by then they usually only cost $3-5, or better yet come out in combo sets.

I make exceptions for some series that I KNOW I'm going to buy, but that's pretty rare.

And I'm not overly into the superhero movies, but my husband is. So there IS a good chance we will own it someday. It might be one of his Christmas presents - he's hard to buy for.

But as a general rule, I always watch them a few times first.


I do have Netflix streaming, and I like it. We got Amazon Prime for month's free trial once, and there was not much of anything I wanted to watch that wasn't on Netflix streaming. Maybe it's gotten better - I don't know. This was when it was fairly new.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

It is written by David S. Goyer, the guy who wrote the scripts for "The Dark Knight" movies. Christopher Nolan, the producer and brains behind "The Dark Knight" films, was a consultant on the project (not to a huge degree, but a few key scenes were his brainchild), the soundtrack is once again Hans Zimmer (I'm a HUGE fan of Zimmer's!!!!), and frankly the script is excellent.

But one thing about this movie is it's a bit of a DC Universe-heavy movie. If you are familiar with the Justice League's nemesis "Darkseid," you'll get the "Omega" symbol in the open field reference. If you know Flash has the power to go back and forward in time, that helps. If you know who Barbara Gordan is, that helps when you see the chick helping Lois Lane doing her research. She's eventually BATGIRL in the comics.

I like the themes of the movie. They're very similar to those explored in Captain America: Civil War. How much can we let superheroes get away with and have no oversight? What is the cost of their salvation?

It has a great plot twist, some frame-ups, great action, a bit of humor, and a sad but great ending that points hopefully to JLA.

I was VERY dubious and cynical about the casting of Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman. I'm a fan of the comics. Wonder Woman should be buxom, not skinny, well-endowed, leggy, strong, tall, and butt-kicking. Plus she's Greek. When they cast an Israeli thin, more petite chick, I was rolling my eyes. Turns out she's pretty solid in the role. I liked her fine. My wife LOVED her! Most people I talked to felt she was a high point in the movie.

I was disgusted initially to hear Ben Affleck is Bruce Wayne. I am not one of those folks who is now fully convinced, but I will say he was passable. And the humor he was able to scrape up along with what I'm seeing in the teaser stuff for JLA, I think he's fine.

Jeremy Irons--great Alfred. Personally I prefer Michael Cain from the Dark Knight movies, but Irons rocks this movie pretty well. More grumpy and lots of one-liners.

LEX LUTHOR---the weak link of the movie. While I think the character himself is brilliant in the movie (!!!), Jesse Eisenberg just plain SUCKS ROCKS as Luthor. I was just plain NOT impressed. Corny to say the least. But his cheesy jokes and weird speech as well as not-funny attempts at humor don't get in the way of the important things he does and the overall story.

It's not a simple plot, and it's a bit slow in the delivery, but I'm a patient man. I don't need a barrage of action lest I fall asleep.

The part with Lex's computer files and the Justice League was OUTSTANDING!

Great movie. Best of the year imho.

With a recommendation from Gurney, I'll make sure to take some time to watch it ;-) I wasn't sure if it would be worth the watch, though I've been tempted.

 

[Orthodoxjay1]

Ah, but you have to remember something, brother Matthew....this is NOT the Batman of the Dark Knight films a la Chris Nolan. This new series is based on/inspired by "The Dark Knight Returns" graphic novel comic of the late 1980's when I was a young man. Notice Bruce has greying hair, he's older, he's tired, he's burned-out, and he's in take-no-prisoners mode. The badguys have upped the ante so much that Batman goes Bad-a!#$ LOL

Ben Affleck is really playing a later Batman with more darkness. Note the branding and darker tactics.

I thought Batman using firearms was WONDERFUL! But then again---you know Gurney! The American Old West backwards gun guy...

Well this "gun nut" well have to check this movie out

 

[Lazarus Short]

As long as we're on the subject of movies, here are Laz's comments on Star Trek Beyond.

Special Effects: Stunning.

Sound: Explosions, Da. Dialogue, Nyet. Chekov is particularly hard to understand, but maybe it was just the sound system in the theater I was in. The others were not much better, and almost NO CAPTIONS. See it on DVD, like I should have done.

Story: Limp. The villain looks like an alien, but is in fact a Star Fleet Captain gone bad. Where have we seen that before? Said captain turns back to looking human, but I was left wondering why. I also wondered how he assembled a HUGE fleet of ships and pilots. This fleet is destroyed by Kirk & Company broadcasting some really bad music with radio waves - the alien ships dutifully explode, just like Martian heads in Mars Attacks exploded from the use of broadcasting yodeling music over the radio. I prefer the yodeling. Well folks, that's what you get when an actor takes on the script duties...

Rent, don't buy on DVD or BluRay. Better yet, wait for it to show up at a garage sale near you. I want my two hours and sixteen dollars back...

 

[~Anastasia~]

(Please forgive the momentary video clips of Miley Cyrus.)

This fleet is destroyed by Kirk & Company broadcasting some really bad music with radio waves - the alien ships dutifully explode, just like Martian heads in Mars Attacks exploded from the use of broadcasting yodeling music over the radio.

They must have picked up that tactic from this meeting ...

 

[ArmyMatt]

Ah, but you have to remember something, brother Matthew....this is NOT the Batman of the Dark Knight films a la Chris Nolan. This new series is based on/inspired by "The Dark Knight Returns" graphic novel comic of the late 1980's when I was a young man. Notice Bruce has greying hair, he's older, he's tired, he's burned-out, and he's in take-no-prisoners mode. The badguys have upped the ante so much that Batman goes Bad-a!#$ LOL

Ben Affleck is really playing a later Batman with more darkness. Note the branding and darker tactics.

I thought Batman using firearms was WONDERFUL! But then again---you know Gurney! The American Old West backwards gun guy...

but even that Batman did not kill, and while he used guns, they had rubber bullets. I don't mind the gritty and darker tone, but certain things about a character should be left alone.

 

[Lazarus Short]

(Please forgive the momentary video clips of Miley Cyrus.)




They must have picked up that tactic from this meeting ...

FUNNY!

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Hey, he let a human sex trafficker scum bag live and plenty of other low-lifes. Most of the people who died were collateral damage who put themselves in the situation. I'm not going to lose comic book sleep over it! LOL

Rubber bullets are the tofu of ammunition, Matt! LOL

but even that Batman did not kill, and while he used guns, they had rubber bullets. I don't mind the gritty and darker tone, but certain things about a character should be left alone.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Plus I heard that they made Sulu gay and at the end of the movie he's holding hands with his "husband" and their children. gurney inserts index finger into throat to induce vomiting

As long as we're on the subject of movies, here are Laz's comments on Star Trek Beyond.

Special Effects: Stunning.

Sound: Explosions, Da. Dialogue, Nyet. Chekov is particularly hard to understand, but maybe it was just the sound system in the theater I was in. The others were not much better, and almost NO CAPTIONS. See it on DVD, like I should have done.

Story: Limp. The villain looks like an alien, but is in fact a Star Fleet Captain gone bad. Where have we seen that before? Said captain turns back to looking human, but I was left wondering why. I also wondered how he assembled a HUGE fleet of ships and pilots. This fleet is destroyed by Kirk & Company broadcasting some really bad music with radio waves - the alien ships dutifully explode, just like Martian heads in Mars Attacks exploded from the use of broadcasting yodeling music over the radio. I prefer the yodeling. Well folks, that's what you get when an actor takes on the script duties...

Rent, don't buy on DVD or BluRay. Better yet, wait for it to show up at a garage sale near you. I want my two hours and sixteen dollars back...

 

[Lazarus Short]

Plus I heard that they made Sulu gay and at the end of the movie he's holding hands with his "husband" and their children. gurney inserts index finger into throat to induce vomiting

OH MYYYYY...

 

[ArmyMatt]

Hey, he let a human sex trafficker scum bag live and plenty of other low-lifes. Most of the people who died were collateral damage who put themselves in the situation. I'm not going to lose comic book sleep over it! LOL

Rubber bullets are the tofu of ammunition, Matt! LOL

that is why it is a gripe. and they were not collateral, Batman aimed and shot at them.

 

[ZaidaBoBaida]

Plus I heard that they made Sulu gay and at the end of the movie he's holding hands with his "husband" and their children. gurney inserts index finger into throat to induce vomiting

Kinda with Gurney on that one. I am so tired of having this shoved down my throat. I was going to boycott this movie, but hubman really wants to see it.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Sure he aimed at them and shot at them, but seriously, man, what on Earth was this guy supposed to do!? You realize the import of this sequence in the movie, right? It's DARKSEID's guys! Those were Darkseid's troops and Parademons! Darkseid isn't Winnie the Pooh or Captain Kangaroo. This guy is nuts and crazy powerful, a destroyer of worlds and god-like in his scope. Darkseid is pure evil and the future you see in the dream is chuck full of apocalypse, decay, death, and doom. Batman isn't going to give out blow-pops and Kit-Kat bars. He's in it to win it and to destroy these guys. It's not Gotham, it's not Kansas and Toto, we're talking Darkseid, baby. And it's Frank Miller. I'm not sure if you read "The Dark Knight Rises" series in the late 80's. It's grim, it's dark, it's not Diet Batman. This is Batman with extra calories.

The funny thing is, folks out there in the DC geek universe have taken the time to go through the Nolan Dark Knight trilogy with Christian Bale's Batman, and they counted 42 kills! LOL. He broke "the one rule" a whole lotta times. And most of the deaths in BvsS and the other trilogy were indeed collateral damage.

But most of the killing in the new flick is in the weird Darkseid apocalypse dream sequence, which isn't actually real, but a possible future Flash reveals. So we have no idea what is really going on there.

that is why it is a gripe. and they were not collateral, Batman aimed and shot at them.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Star Trek now is pure drivel. Trek, as Rus will point out in a New York minute, was always a secular humanist enterprise, but now more than ever it's totally out of hand. It's just a bloated adventure of Starbucks-like secular modernist dopes doing battle with a bunch of wannabe Khans re-imagining a series in a horrid way with little intellectual meat to sink one's teeth into or real depth. Abrams started this mess and the other guy is continuing it. It's a mess. It adds nothing. And the gay stuff, make no mistake, is didactic for you and your husband. I'm disgusted at this tripe. Tell your hubby to go back and watch all 79 original episodes. That's where the real meat is!

Kinda with Gurney on that one. I am so tired of having this shoved down my throat. I was going to boycott this movie, but hubman really wants to see it.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Sure he aimed at them and shot at them, but seriously, man, what on Earth was this guy supposed to do!? You realize the import of this sequence in the movie, right? It's DARKSEID's guys! Those were Darkseid's troops and Parademons! Darkseid isn't Winnie the Pooh or Captain Kangaroo. This guy is nuts and crazy powerful, a destroyer of worlds and god-like in his scope. Darkseid is pure evil and the future you see in the dream is chuck full of apocalypse, decay, death, and doom. Batman isn't going to give out blow-pops and Kit-Kat bars. He's in it to win it and to destroy these guys. It's not Gotham, it's not Kansas and Toto, we're talking Darkseid, baby.

not talking about the non-humans, Batman's killing of humans is the issue.

And it's Frank Miller. I'm not sure if you read "The Dark Knight Rises" series in the late 80's. It's grim, it's dark, it's not Diet Batman. This is Batman with extra calories.

for one, I own the Dark Knight RETURNS (both graphic novel and movie) and Batman: Year One (in addition to the Killing Joke and A Death in the Family) and Batman does not kill with Frank Miller. he comes close, but he does not kill people.

The funny thing is, folks out there in the DC geek universe have taken the time to go through the Nolan Dark Knight trilogy with Christian Bale's Batman, and they counted 42 kills! LOL. He broke "the one rule" a whole lotta times. And most of the deaths in BvsS and the other trilogy were indeed collateral damage.

I also own the Dark Knight Trilogy and I don't remember Batman killing that many folks directly. and the ones in BvS were not collateral. he pointed guns at thugs and shot at them. he also threw a massive crate at someone and splattered his brains on a wall.

But most of the killing in the new flick is in the weird Darkseid apocalypse dream sequence, which isn't actually real, but a possible future Flash reveals. So we have no idea what is really going on there.

that one did not bother me because it was a dream sequence. the gripe is the assault with the Batmobile where he was mowing people down.

question not my Batman pedigree gurney, question it not....

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I was watching Batman and reading the comics when you were in diapers, boyyyyy!

If you look at my post, I never said Batman kills with Frank Miller! I own the comic, too! LOL. I actually read it when it came out in 86 also! My point in referencing Miller's Batman odyssey is to point out this Batman is burned out, fried, and at the end of his rope. His mindset is more grim. Joker actually frames Batman for his murder by killing himself! Crazy guy!

But when it comes to the dream, he's actually killing humans. Those are guys in Superman Nazi-esque outfits, not just the parademons of Darkseid. He is mostly shooting soldiers of some kind. But anyway, the dream part didn't bug you like you said.

Before I forget, recall Batman in "Batman Begins" pulls a "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you" special with Ra's. Remember? Where I come from, that's pretty much murder LOL.

This is from the 1940's

But then later in the 1940's the "no kill" rule kicks in. So Batman was willing to kill, and later DC kind of reversed that. We've been raised with the second phase Batman really. And I agree, I prefer it! But my thesis is there IS a precedent, whether it's pleasant or not.

It's hard to tell where Batman goes in the coming movies with JLA. Batman had to be on the verge of "moral bankruptcy" as Zach Snyder and Ben Affleck put it. He is at the point he's branding people and a vigilante full-on. He even says he and Alfred were always criminals. This behavior leads Superman to believe Batman is the problem and the villain just as the collateral damage of Metropolis makes Bruce believe the same about him.

If Batman were going around crocheting and directing ballet lessons, volunteering to call bingo numbers at the old folks home, Superman would have no reason to raise an eyebrow, and this movie would be pretty dull! Yes, ultimately Lex is the one egging/forcing Kal to attack Bats, but there is this sense of "Batman is a lunatic anyway" justification in Kal's mind.

Gotta run.

By the way, do you own the "Knightfall" trilogy? It's awesome! Plus the anthology of Ra's al ghul called "Tales of the Demon" is a must have.

not talking about the non-humans, Batman's killing of humans is the issue.



for one, I own the Dark Knight RETURNS (both graphic novel and movie) and Batman: Year One (in addition to the Killing Joke and A Death in the Family) and Batman does not kill with Frank Miller. he comes close, but he does not kill people.



I also own the Dark Knight Trilogy and I don't remember Batman killing that many folks directly. and the ones in BvS were not collateral. he pointed guns at thugs and shot at them. he also threw a massive crate at someone and splattered his brains on a wall.



that one did not bother me because it was a dream sequence. the gripe is the assault with the Batmobile where he was mowing people down.

question not my Batman pedigree gurney, question it not....

not talking about the non-humans, Batman's killing of humans is the issue.



for one, I own the Dark Knight RETURNS (both graphic novel and movie) and Batman: Year One (in addition to the Killing Joke and A Death in the Family) and Batman does not kill with Frank Miller. he comes close, but he does not kill people.



I also own the Dark Knight Trilogy and I don't remember Batman killing that many folks directly. and the ones in BvS were not collateral. he pointed guns at thugs and shot at them. he also threw a massive crate at someone and splattered his brains on a wall.



that one did not bother me because it was a dream sequence. the gripe is the assault with the Batmobile where he was mowing people down.

question not my Batman pedigree gurney, question it not....

 

[ArmyMatt]

I was watching Batman and reading the comics when you were in diapers, boyyyyy!

If you look at my post, I never said Batman kills with Frank Miller! I own the comic, too! LOL. I actually read it when it came out in 86 also! My point in referencing Miller's Batman odyssey is to point out this Batman is burned out, fried, and at the end of his rope. His mindset is more grim. Joker actually frames Batman for his murder by killing himself! Crazy guy!

I know that Miller's Batman was grim. the point was that Miller's Batman as evidence that this Batman should kill because he is darker in tone don't work.

But when it comes to the dream, he's actually killing humans. Those are guys in Superman Nazi-esque outfits, not just the parademons of Darkseid. He is mostly shooting soldiers of some kind. But anyway, the dream part didn't bug you like you said.

and I said the nightmare did not bother me.

Before I forget, recall Batman in "Batman Begins" pulls a "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you" special with Ra's. Remember? Where I come from, that's pretty much murder LOL.

nah, leaving someone to die because of what they did is not the same as pulling the trigger yourself. Ra's had the skill to save himself

But then later in the 1940's the "no kill" rule kicks in. So Batman was willing to kill, and later DC kind of reversed that. We've been raised with the second phase Batman really. And I agree, I prefer it! But my thesis is there IS a precedent, whether it's pleasant or not.

and I know Batman used to kill and use a gun, but that has been rejected by the canon. Superman was originally a villain, but folks would have a heart attack if Supes was ever portrayed as one.

It's hard to tell where Batman goes in the coming movies with JLA. Batman had to be on the verge of "moral bankruptcy" as Zach Snyder and Ben Affleck put it. He is at the point he's branding people and a vigilante full-on. He even says he and Alfred were always criminals. This behavior leads Superman to believe Batman is the problem and the villain just as the collateral damage of Metropolis makes Bruce believe the same about him.

I don't mind the branding, nor do I mind Batman being all nasty maiming folks. I once read a comic where he broke some dudes arm and intentionally set it wrong so that he would always remember. Batman always toes the line with killing bad guys, but his struggle not to is what makes him so compelling.

By the way, do you own the "Knightfall" trilogy? It's awesome! Plus the anthology of Ra's al ghul called "Tales of the Demon" is a must have.

no, those are on the Christmas/birthday list. there are some comics I am not allowed to get so my wife can get them for me, haha (her rule, not mine). I do love the Long Halloween