Is David right? Or am I?

[SabbatarianSundayer]

David C. Pack asks; "Were the 10 Cs "Done away"? ... And nothing ever; on 2 Cor 3:7?


Jesus commands; "... If you will enter into life, keep the commandments." Matt 19:17.


How about Pauls; "Ministration of death "? Means; 10 Cs; DONE AWAY! Means Abolished.
David C. Pack isn't mentioning 2 Cor 3:7.


I personally only attend; what I personally declare as an exclusive kJB only church.
Keeping church genuine; not "counterfeit ".


As it also is; Adventists think our Lord Jesus is the final authority on law description and Sabbath command; ...
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: ...
And don't want to recognize, even at all that Paul is that final authority for law description and Sabbath command.


David said; "Millions believe is now null and void"? ... 2 Cor 3:7? No mention.


Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
DOES NOT MEAN THE 10 Cs.
2 Cor 3:7?
PRESUMING to Keeping the 10 Cs; means keeping ALL commandments associated with the 10 Cs?
Can a car be started on Sabbath?
Yes or NO!?
Exodus 35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day


David now mentions 2 Cor 4:4; ...
And nothing on 2 Cor 3:7; and going to Matt 5:17-18. Declaring Jesus as final authority; and not Paul, ... No mention of 2 Cor 3:7.
The biggest biblical issue; does happen to be on genuine vrs "counterfeit" bibles.


David; "Are all 10 Cs taught in the N.T.?"
What about the reiterations?
Law of Moses, vrs the law of "God"; isn't actually the issue.
No mention yet of N.T.; "reiterations"?
Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
David; "Does Paul's description here of the law, inspired by "God"; sound like it has been "done away"; ... That obedience to it is now obsolete?"
David does NOT mention ...
2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2 Corinthians 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is ABOLISHED:
DAVID DOES NOT MENTION THIS!?
David asks now; "Can we now serve other gods; worship idols; or take "God's" name in vain?"
Will David mention Gal 6:2? Law of Christ?
Matt 15:19; does not mean consequences for not keeping Sabbath!
Of all sins ever listed; Sabbath breaking, is never listed; means no consequences for breaking Sabbath.


David mentions 1 John 5:3; and does not ever mention 2 Cor 3:7.


What about Col 2:16-17? No explanation on what that means?
And no mention of John 20:26?
Mark 2:28 means, Jesus can break Sabbath; of course with no sin.
Heb 13:8; does not mean Sabbath stands in the N.T.; ... With no mention of Col 2:16-17; 2 Cor 3:7.
It seems there is never any mention of any verses describing "Sunday".
David mentions Acts 17:2; ... Acts 18:4 is mentioned, and NOT Acts 18:6?
Why hasn't David mentioned any "Sunday" describing scripture?
And David does not mention 2 Cor 3:7?
And it seems David refuses to mention 2 Cor 3:7 ... Trying to tell us; what HE wants you to "believe", that Sabbath does stand; and there is actually nothing "Sunday" in God's word.
David says; "People reject "God's" law."
And no mention of Gal 6:2; The law of Christ.
"There is no hint; that God ever did away with; suspended; or replaced his law; with love; or any other religious sounding phrase."
No mention of 2 Cor 3:7, Gal 6:2; no mention of reiterations.
"God's law existed long before Moses; from the time of creation."
And no mention of Neh 9:13-14. Proving nobody in Genesis; kept Sabbath.
"All 10 Cs, were taught throughout the N.T.; and are in effect today."
And no mention of Col 2:16-17; 2 Cor 3:7; or reiterations.
Murder; adultery; stealing; lying, are covered in the law of Christ; Gal 6:2; ...
And are not the hot topic; ...
Sabbath is that hot topic.
Psalms 19:7-8-9 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
DOES NOT PROVE WE NEED TO KEEP SABBATH.
David; "Certainly nothing here to throw away."
WHAT ABOUT 2 CORINTHIANS 3:7?
The "Ministration of death"; means the 10cs.
Christ's sacrifice; did away with Sabbath; much less the 10 Cs.

 

[BobRyan]

As it also is; Adventists think our Lord Jesus is the final authority on law description and Sabbath command; ...
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: ...

Yep. No wonder we are called "Christians" and not "Paulians"

Paul points out in 1 Cor 3 that it is wrong to try and put Paul on the same level as Christ

1 Cor 1:12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

Antinomianism is not the great panacea that some have supposed it to be.
Antinomianism, definition and a Question "is this you"?

And don't want to recognize, even at all that Paul is that final authority for law description and Sabbath command.

Is it your view that Christ and Paul are at war with each other?
You are posting like Paul was "looking at you" when he wrote 1 Cor 1:13??

David now mentions 2 Cor 4:4; .

which says ??

going to Matt 5:17-18. Declaring Jesus as final authority; and not Paul

1 Cor 1:12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

Is it your argument that Christ is at war with Paul?

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
Eph 6;1-2 Where the first commandment WITH a promise is "Honor your father and mother"

(That Eph 6 statement of Paul is only true in the unit of Law known in scripture as the TEN Commandments)

David; "Are all 10 Cs taught in the N.T.?"

There is one never quoted from at all in the NT
Ex 20:7 "Do not take God's name in vain"

so then, "what is your point"??? Are you arguing for taking God's name in vain? Seriously?

 

[BobRyan]

Mark 2:28 means, Jesus can break Sabbath; of course with no sin.

Try "exegesis" instead of eisegesis. You don't even quote the text in your comment above

Mark 2L27-28
"The Sabbath was made for mankind not mankind MADE for the Sabbath" (speaks of the MAKING of Both in Gen 1-2
"therefore the Son of Man IS Lord of the Sabbath" (does not say the Son of man abolished it)

Therefore... BECAUSE it is God the Son that created both mankind and the Sabbath HE is Lord of both, and HAS been Lord of both from day 1.
As the Lord of BOTH, He established and sustains both.

Matt 5 Christ condemns anyone trying to teach that Christ was deleting His commandments

Heb 8 says that Christ is the one speaking at Sinai , His Commandments

 

[SabbatarianSundayer]

Yep. No wonder we are called "Christians" and not "Paulians"

Paul points out in 1 Cor 3 that it is wrong to try and put Paul on the same level as Christ

1 Cor 1:12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

Is it your view that Christ and Paul are at war with each other?
You are posting like Paul was "looking at you" when he wrote 1 Cor 1:13??


which says ??



1 Cor 1:12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

Is it your argument that Christ is at war with Paul?

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
Eph 6;1-2 Where the first commandment WITH a promise is "Honor your father and mother"

(That Eph 6 statement of Paul is only true in the unit of Law known in scripture as the TEN Commandments)


There is one never quoted from at all in the NT
Ex 20:7 "Do not take God's name in vain"

so then, "what is your point"??? Are you arguing for taking God's name in vain? Seriously?

Is it your view that Christ and Paul are at war with each other?
You are posting like Paul was "looking at you" when he wrote 1 Cor 1:13??

I think you're seriously missing the point here.

 

[Richard T]

James 2:8-13 (ESV)
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.
11 For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty.
13 For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Sure the Sabbath precedes the law, so does do not kill. I go to church to learn, and to contribute to others there. I do not go to fulfill a commandment. I rest also to recharge that I may be more fruitful during my working days not because of some law other than the "royal law."

 

[Studyman]

The point of your OP it seems, is to justify the rejection of whatever of the Commandments of God a man might feel as unworthy of his honor.

And to do this, "many" who profess to know God, select certain scriptures that they separate from the rest of the Bible, then create doctrines from them, that align more with whatever religious sect or philosophy of this world they have adopted. Paul is pleading with the Church of God at Corinth, not to engage in such practice, even though it is become popular. (I am of Gamaliel) A man can see this when he considers all of Paul's message to them.

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship "of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord". (Not the teaching of one man or another)

10 Now "I beseech you", brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together "in the same mind" and "in the same judgment".

11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

There is only One Christ "of the Bible". Paul also teaches, "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus", who, being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Therefore, truly faithful men, according to Paul, strive to be perfectly joined together as one with this Christ, of His Mind, and His Judgment. Paul strived for this perfection that Jesus Commanded, according to his own words. "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

How does this apply to me today? It seems clear to me that there are "many" who come in Christ's Name, that declare, "I am of Wesley", or "I am of White", or "I am of Calvin", or "I am of Arminius" or "I am of Russell". Or more plainly stated, "I am Baptist" or "I am Calvinist" or "I am Catholic" or "I am SDA" or "I am JW" etc.

Is Christ Divided? No, it wasn't Paul and Christ that were at war with each other, Paul had submitted to and was perfectly united in judgment and of the same mind with the Christ "of the Bible".

The contention exists because these religious men were not striving to be "perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment" as the Christ they called Lord, Lord. Each person creating his own way after the imaginations of his own heart and others being drawn away from the mind and the judgment of the Christ "of the Bible" by listening to them instead of the Head of God's Church, whose Gospel Paul was sent to preach.

The Spirit of Christ prophesied of this, and warned of this through Jeremiah, in the Law and Prophets that Jesus and Paul believed all that was written therein. "and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you." (Jer. 23:17)

Men don't understand Paul because they are not seeking to be ""perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment" as the Christ of the Bible. If they did, they would understand that it was the Glory of Moses, that was to be done away with, replaced by the Glory of a New incorruptible Priest,

But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for "the glory of his countenance"; which "glory" was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration "of the spirit" (Incorruptible Priest) be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed "in glory".

Heb. 3: 1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; 2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house. 3 For this man was counted "worthy of more glory" than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath "builded the house" hath more honour "than the house."

Moses is dead and buried, his glory has been done away. But the Holy One of Israel who became Flesh, who created the Law in the first place, was Raised from the Dead "because" HE didn't transgress God's Commandments, even though HE was accused of breaking God's Commandments by this worlds religions of that time, and is still being accused by the same religions to this very day. Nevertheless, His Glory is eternal regardless of what men say about Him.

I think David was Right.

Ps. 103: 17 But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children; 18 To such as keep his covenant, and to those that "remember" his commandments to do them.

Ps. 119: 5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes! 6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect "unto all" thy commandments.

Ps. 119: 47 And I will delight myself in thy commandments, "which I have loved". 48 My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved; and I will meditate in thy statutes.

Ps. 119: 60 I made haste, and delayed not to keep thy commandments. 61 The bands of the wicked have robbed me: but I have "not forgotten" thy law.

Ps. 119: 97 MEM. O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day. 98 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me. 99 I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.

Ps. 119: 172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for "all thy commandments" are righteousness. 173 Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.

Where is David Judging God's commandments here, some as worthy of his Honor and respect towards the God who created them, and others as unworthy of his Honor and respect towards the God who created them.

I believe we are to "Yield ourselves" servants to obey this God, not exalt ourselves as judges of God and His Commandments.

 

[SabbatarianSundayer]

The point of your OP it seems, is to justify the rejection of whatever of the Commandments of God a man might feel as unworthy of his honor.

And to do this, "many" who profess to know God, select certain scriptures that they separate from the rest of the Bible, then create doctrines from them, that align more with whatever religious sect or philosophy of this world they have adopted. Paul is pleading with the Church of God at Corinth, not to engage in such practice, even though it is become popular. (I am of Gamaliel) A man can see this when he considers all of Paul's message to them.

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship "of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord". (Not the teaching of one man or another)

10 Now "I beseech you", brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together "in the same mind" and "in the same judgment".

11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

There is only One Christ "of the Bible". Paul also teaches, "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus", who, being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Therefore, truly faithful men, according to Paul, strive to be perfectly joined together as one with this Christ, of His Mind, and His Judgment. Paul strived for this perfection that Jesus Commanded, according to his own words. "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

How does this apply to me today? It seems clear to me that there are "many" who come in Christ's Name, that declare, "I am of Wesley", or "I am of White", or "I am of Calvin", or "I am of Arminius" or "I am of Russell". Or more plainly stated, "I am Baptist" or "I am Calvinist" or "I am Catholic" or "I am SDA" or "I am JW" etc.

Is Christ Divided? No, it wasn't Paul and Christ that were at war with each other, Paul had submitted to and was perfectly united in judgment and of the same mind with the Christ "of the Bible".

The contention exists because these religious men were not striving to be "perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment" as the Christ they called Lord, Lord. Each person creating his own way after the imaginations of his own heart and others being drawn away from the mind and the judgment of the Christ "of the Bible" by listening to them instead of the Head of God's Church, whose Gospel Paul was sent to preach.

The Spirit of Christ prophesied of this, and warned of this through Jeremiah, in the Law and Prophets that Jesus and Paul believed all that was written therein. "and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you." (Jer. 23:17)

Men don't understand Paul because they are not seeking to be ""perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment" as the Christ of the Bible. If they did, they would understand that it was the Glory of Moses, that was to be done away with, replaced by the Glory of a New incorruptible Priest,

But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for "the glory of his countenance"; which "glory" was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration "of the spirit" (Incorruptible Priest) be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed "in glory".

Heb. 3: 1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; 2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house. 3 For this man was counted "worthy of more glory" than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath "builded the house" hath more honour "than the house."

Moses is dead and buried, his glory has been done away. But the Holy One of Israel who became Flesh, who created the Law in the first place, was Raised from the Dead "because" HE didn't transgress God's Commandments, even though HE was accused of breaking God's Commandments by this worlds religions of that time, and is still being accused by the same religions to this very day. Nevertheless, His Glory is eternal regardless of what men say about Him.

I think David was Right.

Ps. 103: 17 But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children; 18 To such as keep his covenant, and to those that "remember" his commandments to do them.

Ps. 119: 5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes! 6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect "unto all" thy commandments.

Ps. 119: 47 And I will delight myself in thy commandments, "which I have loved". 48 My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved; and I will meditate in thy statutes.

Ps. 119: 60 I made haste, and delayed not to keep thy commandments. 61 The bands of the wicked have robbed me: but I have "not forgotten" thy law.

Ps. 119: 97 MEM. O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day. 98 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me. 99 I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.

Ps. 119: 172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for "all thy commandments" are righteousness. 173 Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.

Where is David Judging God's commandments here, some as worthy of his Honor and respect towards the God who created them, and others as unworthy of his Honor and respect towards the God who created them.

I believe we are to "Yield ourselves" servants to obey this God, not exalt ourselves as judges of God and His Commandments.

So; your on Davids side? Why do I only have SDA, for "Sabbath"?
As even Ellen; as I CHOOSE to determine; accidentally described Sunday in DA.
Can I show you, what I call; the Doug B. accidental "Sunday as biblical", confession?

 

[BobRyan]

Is it your view that Christ and Paul are at war with each other?

No.

see Rom 3:31 "do we then abolish the Law of God by our faith"?
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
Matt 19 Jesus said "Keep the Commandments"

 

[BobRyan]

So; your on Davids side? Why do I only have SDA, for "Sabbath"?

because you don't talk to Messianic Jews?
because you don't talk to Seventh-day Baptists?
because you don't talk to Seventh-day church of God?

Because you don't read section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith"?
Because you don't read section 19 of the "Westminster Confession of Faith"?
Because you have not read D.L. Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments?

Because you don't read Acts 18:4?
Because you don't like the end of Acts 13?

 

[BobRyan]

1 Cor 1:12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one would say you were baptized in my name

2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

No antinomianism in Paul's message
1 Cor 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you;

NO antinomianism in Christ's teaching
Matt 19:16 ...if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?”

Antinomianism, definition and a Question "is this you"?

 

[BobRyan]

And nothing on 2 Cor 3:7;

2 Cor 3:7 that you are not quoting -- does not say "ONE of the TEN commandments are written in stone" as some may have imagined.

If you are using 2 Cor 3:7 to condemn the Law of God , then know that it is all TEN written on stone as 2 Cor 3:7 reminds us.


2 Cor 3:7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

Not one commandment but rather all ten ... including "Do no take God's name in vain" written on stone but not quoted in that verse.

The Ten STILL condemn all mankind as we see in Rom 3, which is why all mankind need to accept the Gospel. The Law of God continues to define sin and condemn sin, which is why everyone needs the gospel.

Everyone needs the New Covenant of Heb 8 and Jer 31:31-34

David; "Are all 10 Cs taught in the N.T.?"

one is missing , it is "Do not take God's name in vain", never quoted from even once in the NT

 

[Studyman]

So; your on Davids side? Why do I only have SDA, for "Sabbath"?
As even Ellen; as I CHOOSE to determine; accidentally described Sunday in DA.
Can I show you, what I call; the Doug B. accidental "Sunday as biblical", confession?

I am on the Christ "of the Bibles" side. So was David and Paul in my view. Neither of them judged God's Commandments, rather, they applied God's Commandments to their inner self, believing in Faith, that God had them written; "For our Sakes no doubt".

God placed me in a garden in which I am completely surrounded by "other voices", who profess to know God. But there is only ONE God, so He is my refuge. His Words are those I strive to live by, as my Lord instructs. Therefore I would not be interested in Doug B's teaching, but would advocate that he, and all men, join ourselves to the Christ "of the bible", "perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment".

 

[SabbatarianSundayer]

No.

see Rom 3:31 "do we then abolish the Law of God by our faith"?
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
Matt 19 Jesus said "Keep the Commandments"

I didn't say that. Somebody else did. I never meant to even suggest any such thing.
Im saying that Jesus never commanded Sabbath; and Paul is our Sabbath commander; who said; Don't consent about Sabbath.

 

[Chris35]

I think there is something greater then the law now, Love.


The law doesn't ask you to forgive.
The law doesn't ask you to give to those in need
The law doesn't ask you to help.
The law doesn't ask you to go the extra mile.


Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.

I think the law stands, but as Christians, we are to do more then the law.

 

[SabbatarianSundayer]

I think there is something greater then the law now, Love.


The law doesn't ask you to forgive.
The law doesn't ask you to give to those in need
The law doesn't ask you to help.
The law doesn't ask you to go the extra mile.


Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.

I think the law stands, but as Christians, we are to do more then the law.

Am I right; that the Ministration of death; means the 10 Cs are abolished?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Am I right; that the Ministration of death; means the 10 Cs are abolished?

It means that the Ten Commandments are what describes sin- the wages of sin is death Rom6:23 sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4 the Ten Commandments. James 2:11 Rom7:7 The law is not the issue, it is holy, just and good Rom7:12 the issue is our sinful flesh. Under the ministration of Jesus if we cooperate with Him through love and faith- He gives us the Holy Spirit so we can keep His commandments John14:15-18

Looking at 2Cor3:3 we see the Ten Commandments went from tablets of stone to tablets of the heart which is the NC- God’s laws written in the heart of the NC believer unless we refuse them Rom8:7-8. He won’t force His law in us, but if we ask for His help and want to obey Him, He will give us His Spirit so we can keep them.

 

[Soyeong]

David C. Pack asks; "Were the 10 Cs "Done away"? ... And nothing ever; on 2 Cor 3:7?


Jesus commands; "... If you will enter into life, keep the commandments." Matt 19:17.


How about Pauls; "Ministration of death "? Means; 10 Cs; DONE AWAY! Means Abolished.
David C. Pack isn't mentioning 2 Cor 3:7.


I personally only attend; what I personally declare as an exclusive kJB only church.
Keeping church genuine; not "counterfeit ".


As it also is; Adventists think our Lord Jesus is the final authority on law description and Sabbath command; ...
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: ...
And don't want to recognize, even at all that Paul is that final authority for law description and Sabbath command.


David said; "Millions believe is now null and void"? ... 2 Cor 3:7? No mention.


Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
DOES NOT MEAN THE 10 Cs.
2 Cor 3:7?
PRESUMING to Keeping the 10 Cs; means keeping ALL commandments associated with the 10 Cs?
Can a car be started on Sabbath?
Yes or NO!?
Exodus 35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day


David now mentions 2 Cor 4:4; ...
And nothing on 2 Cor 3:7; and going to Matt 5:17-18. Declaring Jesus as final authority; and not Paul, ... No mention of 2 Cor 3:7.
The biggest biblical issue; does happen to be on genuine vrs "counterfeit" bibles.


David; "Are all 10 Cs taught in the N.T.?"
What about the reiterations?
Law of Moses, vrs the law of "God"; isn't actually the issue.
No mention yet of N.T.; "reiterations"?
Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
David; "Does Paul's description here of the law, inspired by "God"; sound like it has been "done away"; ... That obedience to it is now obsolete?"
David does NOT mention ...
2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2 Corinthians 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is ABOLISHED:
DAVID DOES NOT MENTION THIS!?
David asks now; "Can we now serve other gods; worship idols; or take "God's" name in vain?"
Will David mention Gal 6:2? Law of Christ?
Matt 15:19; does not mean consequences for not keeping Sabbath!
Of all sins ever listed; Sabbath breaking, is never listed; means no consequences for breaking Sabbath.


David mentions 1 John 5:3; and does not ever mention 2 Cor 3:7.


What about Col 2:16-17? No explanation on what that means?
And no mention of John 20:26?
Mark 2:28 means, Jesus can break Sabbath; of course with no sin.
Heb 13:8; does not mean Sabbath stands in the N.T.; ... With no mention of Col 2:16-17; 2 Cor 3:7.
It seems there is never any mention of any verses describing "Sunday".
David mentions Acts 17:2; ... Acts 18:4 is mentioned, and NOT Acts 18:6?
Why hasn't David mentioned any "Sunday" describing scripture?
And David does not mention 2 Cor 3:7?
And it seems David refuses to mention 2 Cor 3:7 ... Trying to tell us; what HE wants you to "believe", that Sabbath does stand; and there is actually nothing "Sunday" in God's word.
David says; "People reject "God's" law."
And no mention of Gal 6:2; The law of Christ.
"There is no hint; that God ever did away with; suspended; or replaced his law; with love; or any other religious sounding phrase."
No mention of 2 Cor 3:7, Gal 6:2; no mention of reiterations.
"God's law existed long before Moses; from the time of creation."
And no mention of Neh 9:13-14. Proving nobody in Genesis; kept Sabbath.
"All 10 Cs, were taught throughout the N.T.; and are in effect today."
And no mention of Col 2:16-17; 2 Cor 3:7; or reiterations.
Murder; adultery; stealing; lying, are covered in the law of Christ; Gal 6:2; ...
And are not the hot topic; ...
Sabbath is that hot topic.
Psalms 19:7-8-9 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
DOES NOT PROVE WE NEED TO KEEP SABBATH.
David; "Certainly nothing here to throw away."
WHAT ABOUT 2 CORINTHIANS 3:7?
The "Ministration of death"; means the 10cs.
Christ's sacrifice; did away with Sabbath; much less the 10 Cs.

Jesus and the Apostles quoted from the OT hundreds of times in order to support what they were saying, so it doesn’t work for someone to take the position that we should follow what they said but not what they considered to be an authoritative source. For example, Jesus quoted three times from Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations Satan, which included saying that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God (Deuteronomy 8:3), so he affirmed God as being an authoritative source and we have no need for the Jesus or the Apostles to specifically repeat everything that God has spoken in order to know that we should still live by what God has spoken. That includes affirming living by what God spoke in Deuteronomy 5:12-15 in regard to keeping the Sabbath holy. In Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instructed to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they speak against obeying the Mosaic Law, so it is either incorrect to interpret Paul as doing that or he was a false prophet, but either way followers of Christ should follow his example of obedience to what God has spoken.

God’s character traits are the fruits of the Spirit and the Mosaic Law is God’s instructions for how to be a doer of His character traits, which is why the Bible repeatedly states that the New Covenant involves following the Mosaic Law, that the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it, and the obedience to it is the way to inherit eternal life (Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 36:26-27, Luke 10:25-28), so that should inform how 2 Corinthians 3 should be interpreted. In Romans 10:5-10, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to the righteousness that is by faith proclaiming that God is writing the Mosaic Law on our hearts, that it is not too difficult for us to obey, that obedience to it brings life and a blessing, that disobedience brings death and a curse, that we are submitting to it by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and that God raised Jesus from the dead for salvation.

 

[Soyeong]

I think there is something greater then the law now, Love.


The law doesn't ask you to forgive.
The law doesn't ask you to give to those in need
The law doesn't ask you to help.
The law doesn't ask you to go the extra mile.


Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.

I think the law stands, but as Christians, we are to do more then the law.

The greatest two commandments of the Mosaic Law are to love God and our neighbor because everything in it is either in regard to how to love God and our neighbor, so walking in love is not doing something greater or other than walking in obedience to it.

 

[Studyman]

I think there is something greater then the law now, Love.

The law doesn't ask you to forgive.

Lev. 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor "bear any grudge" against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

How is this not a Law of God gives that requires forgiveness? What is a Grudge? Hebrew Word is "Naqam" = NASB: avenge, avenged, take vengeance, avenger, avenging, take, exact.

There is only ONE way remove a grudge against someone, isn't that ONE way to Forgive"? What other way is there?

The law doesn't ask you to give to those in need
The law doesn't ask you to help.
The law doesn't ask you to go the extra mile.

Deut. 22: 1 Thou shalt not see thy brother's ox or his sheep go astray, and hide thyself from them: thou shalt in any case bring them again unto thy brother.

2 And if thy brother be not nigh unto thee, or if thou know him not, then thou shalt bring it unto thine own house, and it shall be with thee until thy brother seek after it, and thou shalt restore it to him again.

3 In like manner shalt thou do with his ass; and so shalt thou do with his raiment; and with "all lost thing of thy brother's", which he hath lost, and thou hast found, shalt thou do likewise: thou mayest not hide thyself.

4 Thou shalt not see thy brother's ass or his ox fall down by the way, and hide thyself from them: thou shalt surely help him to lift them up again.

How does this not include the loss of his health, or a broken leg, or a crop he has lost, or the money associated with it?

How can you say God's Law isn't instructing a man to "Go the extra mile" for his brother, even those who he doesn't know.

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.

I think the law stands, but as Christians, we are to do more then the law.

Think about that for a moment, and the implication of this statement. That Somehow God was not competent or complete enough to teach or instruct his people how to Love Him and Others, even though He commanded them to do so. And now, we are to "do more" that God instructed, as determined by the imagination of our own hearts. It seems to me that God has already given men His instruction, we just need to SEEK it, and then believe when we find it.