the timing of the end times in the Bible

[childofGod31]

This idea just came to me. Why in the world do people believe that the end times will occur soon?

I mean the Bible doesn't say WHEN. Even Paul and Peter believed that the end times would happen in their days, 2000 years ago. So Paul and Peter didn't believe in the 7 day/7000 yrs time frame (in 6 days God worked and in 7th day he rested, therefore, God will come at the end of 6000 years)

So the 7day/7000 yr plan was worked out by later generations of Christians. But it's just a supposition, a conjecture, isn't?

Some people based the end on major bad events happenning. But such events kept happening throughout history. And each time some people probably thought that the end is near.

But in reality, there is no way to know WHEN the end will come, is there? Not even the 100's years range (not to mention a certain day or an hour)

 

[Lookingupnow]

The 6000 year-thing, followed by the 7th is not conjecture. It's Truth. You practice it every week of your life.

There are many scriptures that speak of the timing of Christ's return just as there were scriptures that spoke to the timing and identity of Christ's birth and ministry.

I tend to believe that the reason people in past ages didn't understand what we understand now is because of computers. We are able to cross-reference and pull up scriptures within seconds. Another reason is that we are literate. Many people couldn't even read and trusted in someone else to explain things.

 

[Yekcidmij]

I tend to believe that the reason people in past ages didn't understand what we understand now is because of computers. We are able to cross-reference and pull up scriptures within seconds. Another reason is that we are literate. Many people couldn't even read and trusted in someone else to explain things.

I guess it's a good thing that we're much smarter these days than anyone else ever was. There is a difference between kinds of knowledge and there is a difference between knowledge and wisdom. People "back then" may not have had computers, so instead of using computer memory they used their own memory. The bible can be completely committed to human memory and recited if you commit the time to doing it. And the literacy rate of first century Jews is higly disputed. Being that so much of their lives centered on a written text, the literacy rate was probably much higher than you think.

 

[Lookingupnow]

I guess it's a good thing that we're much smarter these days than anyone else ever was. There is a difference between kinds of knowledge and there is a difference between knowledge and wisdom. People "back then" may not have had computers, so instead of using computer memory they used their own memory. The bible can be completely committed to human memory and recited if you commit the time to doing it. And the literacy rate of first century Jews is higly disputed. Being that so much of their lives centered on a written text, the literacy rate was probably much higher than you think.

I would think that boys were taught the Torah, but I doubt that girls were. That puts the literacy rate at 50% within the Jewish community at the time of Christ.

 

[Yekcidmij]

I would think that boys were taught the Torah, but I doubt that girls were.

I'm not entirely sure why I should think that.

That puts the literacy rate at 50% within the Jewish community at the time of Christ.

That would only work if (1) Your assertion is correct and (2) if the ratio of boys to girls was 1:1.

 

[Truth Files]

Response to the OP:

No one can date the beginning of the Lord's coming visitation with success because He has not revelaled it

What one can know is that He has set Israel in the midst of the nations from its beginning, and the end time visions of the Bible prophets require a remnant part of the nation to be back in the land of Israel [they have been among the nations for a very long time until of recent] in the Middle East in order to experience the things that will take place for them at the time of the end .... things for Israel are scheduled for the Lord's coming judgment [the tribulation period .... same as the 70th week decreed for Israel]

So if you want to see His hand in the process .... watch Israel and the Middle East [much is developing there today with regard to Israel and the surrounding by their ancient enemies of the adherents of Islam .... all of this is the setting of the time of the end in the visions of the Bible prophets]

.... but no one can know the beginning of "the time of the end" of this present age

It could begin before this day is over .... or the Lord could tarry much longer

 

[Lookingupnow]

I'm not entirely sure why I should think that.



That would only work if (1) Your assertion is correct and (2) if the ratio of boys to girls was 1:1.

The only way the boy to girl ratio would not be 1:1 is if they murder the girls, like China or the boys, like Pharaoh.

At the time of Christ, Harod was murdering boys ages 2 and under so the literacy rate would have been even lower than 50%.

 

[Achilles6129]

I mean the Bible doesn't say WHEN. Even Paul and Peter believed that the end times would happen in their days, 2000 years ago.

Paul and Peter did not believe that the end times would happen in their days. That is based wholly upon a misinterpretation of the text and a misunderstanding of the real gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[NvxiaLee]

This idea just came to me. Why in the world do people believe that the end times will occur soon?

As Christianity fades from America, the prominence of conman and hustlers rises. As the faith of the people fade, their demand to see miracles increases. People like Harold Camping who predicted judgement day on May 21 have become rich and powerful preying on the biblical ignorance and faithlessness of Christians.

The Bible does tell us when. Matt 24:34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

How often have you heard someone quote "no man knows the day or hour"? While Jesus doesn't tell us the day or hour, he did give us the generation. There's no separating "this generation" from "no man knows the day or hour."

Matt 24:1 Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2 And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.” 3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

History confirms when this happened. It was 70 when the Temple was destroyed. It was at that time when Jerusalem was surrounded armies, and the events of Matt 24 came to pass. Jesus wasn't talking about the end of the world, only the end of the age. 40 years passed, the same number of years the Israelites were in the desert, as the new covenant replaced the old covenant. As God restored Israel, the promised land, as a heavenly place rather than an earthly place.

 

[Achilles6129]

As Christianity fades from America, the prominence of conman and hustlers rises. As the faith of the people fade, their demand to see miracles increases. People like Harold Camping who predicted judgement day on May 21 have become rich and powerful preying on the biblical ignorance and faithlessness of Christians.

Christianity faded from America a long time ago. I might even venture to say that real Christianity was never within America.

The Bible does tell us when. Matt 24:34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

He was talking about the generation of the fig tree.

"32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Mt. 24:32-34

He was not talking about AD 70. And it is easy to prove:

"21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." Mt. 24:21

The tribulation in AD 70 hardly surpassed the events of the Holocaust, etc. Therefore, said tribulation is still to come.

 

[NvxiaLee]

Christianity faded from America a long time ago. I might even venture to say that real Christianity was never within America.

I thought I was cynical on this issue.

He was talking about the generation of the fig tree.

"32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Mt. 24:32-34

He was not talking about AD 70. And it is easy to prove:

"21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." Mt. 24:21

The tribulation in AD 70 hardly surpassed the events of the Holocaust, etc. Therefore, said tribulation is still to come.

The events around 70AD were worse than the Holocaust. I'd prefer to be in WWII Germany than in Jerusalem during the Jewish/Roman war. And, you also would need to know how God measures how bad things are. I'm pretty sure God is more concerned with what happens to His people than what happens to Lo-ammi.

I think the physical event of the destruction of the Temple easily trumps your subjective argument about severity of events. And, I think Jesus saying "this generation" settles it.

You have misread the passage. Jesus is not talking about the generation of the fig tree (by that, I suppose you mean some future generation). Jerusalem is the tree. The destruction of the Temple, and related physical events, is the leafing of the tree. The tree will leaf within a generation, and then the spiritual events, the new season, will start happening immediately.

You seem to think that when the tree leafs, summer is a generation away. No, when the tree leafs, summer is starting. "Near" used in Matt 24:33 comes up short of the real meaning of the Greek word. Jesus provided a very good definition, "at the door", not within a generation. You are directly contradicted by Jesus.

Was Jesus just being a jerk? What good is it to tell people that all these events will take place within a generation, once the event start, with no one knowing - except the crooks - when that generation starts. And, it is not the answer to the Disciple's question, when well the temple be destroyed, not what is its destruction relative to?

 

[Truth Files]

Explain this passage of scripture in detail Nvx [Zechariah 14]

I am sure that you will pick and choose allegory for your interpretation

If rendered correctly, Zechariah the prophet trumps the preteristic idea of 70 A.D. [70 A.D. was not the time of the end of this present age which is still pending]

Not one verse of this significant vision has yet take place to this very day

Does the Lord contradict Zechariah in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21?

.... He would be a jerk and a liar if He did ..... right?

Give your rendition of Zechariah 14 verse by verse and show how all took place in 70 A.D.

Then after you tell the forum we can discuss Ezekiel 38 and 39 .... then there are several others to investigate

 

[Yekcidmij]

At the time of Christ, Harod was murdering boys ages 2 and under so the literacy rate would have been even lower than 50%.

I see no reason to think that Herod murdered anyone beyond Nazareth nor made this a recurring policy. So, it's really not even close to being statistically significant to the entire population. And you still didn't answer my other objection about females learning the Old Testament.

 

[Lookingupnow]

I see no reason to think that Herod murdered anyone beyond Nazareth nor made this a recurring policy. So, it's really not even close to being statistically significant to the entire population. And you still didn't answer my other objection about females learning the Old Testament.

Seeing as how the temple grounds, itself, was divided men from women, I doubt that girls were educated like boys were.

That leaves the literacy rate of Israel at the time of Christ below 50%.

So, yes, understanding of the Bible and Biblical prophecy increased with modern technology and literacy rates which, by the way, was prophecied in Daniel 12.

 

[Truth Files]

I am waiting for you to render Zechariah 14 in conjunction with 70 A.D. for the forum Nvx

Please give an explanation foe each verse of the passage and the related events of 70 A.D. without committing the scriptures to allegory [figurative washing of the literal]

 

[Yekcidmij]

Seeing as how the temple grounds, itself, was divided men from women, I doubt that girls were educated like boys were.

That leaves the literacy rate of Israel at the time of Christ below 50%.

I don't see how that is an indicator of education, nor do I see how that results in 50%.

 

[childofGod31]

Paul and Peter did not believe that the end times would happen in their days. That is based wholly upon a misinterpretation of the text and a misunderstanding of the real gospel of Jesus Christ.

1Co 7:26 Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for you to remain as you are.
1Co 7:27 Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife.
1Co 7:29 What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none;
1Co 7:30 those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep;
1Co 7:31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.

 

[SharonL]

The one verse that everyone through the ages have missed - the Bible says that after Israel becomes a state and ALL these things happen - look up, your redemption is near - It also tells us to be Watchmen and gives special Blessings for those who are watching for the return of Jesus.

People who deny the return of Jesus have not put all the Bible prophesies together - the reason people have become so excited about the return of Jesus is that reading the Bible and the end times predictions is like reading the newspaper - it is all happening - Israel standing alone - all the enemies surrounding her and all the happenings in the world gathering together - all the floods, fires, earthquakes - all within the Words of Scripture 'that after Israel becomes a state and ALL these things happen - look up - your redemption is near.

 

[Varicose Brains]

The 6000 year-thing, followed by the 7th is not conjecture. It's Truth. You practice it every week of your life.

This is not truth. It's just your opinion. The Bible, nowhere, says how old the earth is or at what date God created it. The actual age of the earth is 4.5 billion years old, as has been proven by science; the same science that made the computer you're reading this on, the mobile phone you carry around with you, the television you watch every night, the light you switched on before you switched your television on...