Joel is explicitly talking about the 'day of the Lord' (Joel 1:15), not some past event.
Zech 11:8 is not a past event and neither is the worthless shepherd. What 3 shepherds were cut off in a month?
God through His Prophets told us about past events and future events which look like past events and/or mixed and wove the two events into one passage. Zech. 13 does this. Verses 1-5 are about 70th week events, and how a fountain for sin had been opened unto the house of Israel (the 1/3 repent) but then in verses 6-7 we see Jesus in the house of his friends being harmed (a flash back to Jesus' death and why/how Israel's sins are forgiven in the end times). Then in verses 8-9 we revert back to the 70th week events via the 1/3 who repent, whom God protects, and the 2/3 who refuse to repent and thus die. Then in Zech. 14:1 we that see the DOTL arrives, after Israel repent.
Joel 1 does likewise, it mixes and matches, or weaves two events together. The Day of the Lord is a day He judges. Well, God judged the Northern tribes, warned Judah, then judged them in 598 BC, Joel 1 is mostly about God's real time coming judgment 2800-2500 BC but Joel 2 is mostly about the 70th week judgment. God does this with scripture, especially prophecy, all over the bible, and Joel was one of the first prophets also. Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel all came after him.
Not sure what your point is here. Yes, the 7th Trumpet is the 7 bowls of wrath. Where did I say otherwise?
Because the 7th trump lasts 75 days, and you said this below:
"The end of the 1260 days is the start of the 7th Trumpet. This is the start of the beast from the sea & earth with living image".
So, this can not be factual, the end of the 1260 ends in vial #7 with Jesus showing up and destroying the Anti-Christ, false prophet and all of their minions. So, the 7th trump starts the 3rd woe, which ends on the 7th vial, which of course ends the Beasts 1260 days of rule over Israel, and according to Daniel 12:7 that is the 1260, the Beasts rule over Israel will last 1260 days then all these wonders will end (via the 2nd coming)
The kingdom of heaven begins and Jesus will destroy the beast. It is not instantaneous - it takes 45 days.
Not 45, but you seem to understand it take a period of time, that is why the 7th trump sounding doesn't end his rule, its the 7th vial, that is a part of the 3rd woe, that ends his 1260 day rule, but the 7th trump has to last 75 days, the two-witnesses die at the end of the 2nd woe, and have to die 75 days before the beast dies because they showed up 75 days before the A.C. became the beast, the two-witnesses are the 1335 blessing. So in general we agree. It take a period of time after the 7th trump sound before Jesus shows up to defeat the beast and his false prophet.
The beast from the sea is given a throne by the dragon - it is an illegitimate government in contrast to the legitimate govt of heaven. As soon as the beast from sea & earth begin (at the 7th Trumpet), Jesus will start to destroy them. He will not wait around for 1260 days.
Well, God's plagues start, and then on that very day (DOTL) the A.C. is allowed to go forth conquering. Remember, God could defeat this man anytime He wants to, so the A.C. has to be a part of God's 1260 days of Wrath, as in "you get the king your heart so desired". But Jesus only shows up at the 7th vial. We the bride are in heaven marrying the Lamb, and we both reside in the Father's house for 7 years. Then return.
The tares will think that the beast from the sea & earth is the messiah. The wheat will be gathered at the same time. Everyone will sort themselves to who they want and then the tares will be burned at the end of the age.
No, no, no, this like Mr. Douggg is a bad understanding my friend, put forth by other men long ago because they do not understand John 5:43. The Jews never accept a false Messiah, that verse above was about the "Pharisees" who lived in Jesus' time my friend. They rejected Jesus' just as he said they would, but they also would accept another who came in their own names as the christ, Matt. 24:4-6 was specifically about the 70 AD events. The Pharisees (one can look all this up via the historical siege of Jerusalem) knew Rome was the fourth beast (of course) so they expected a conquering Messiah who was political in nature, that was Judas' mistake, he felt Jesus should be a warrior Messiah. The Pharisees put a few men forth in the 67-70 AD wars, and of course, as Jesus told them, they would accept others who came forth in their own names. That passage was thus fulfilled in 70 AD, yet people think it is about the end times, its not.
The tares are the world who love evil, they grow together with Israel (the wheat harvest first fruits) until the end [ of the 70th week]. The Church are the first fruits of the barley harvest, which comes first (think pre 70th week rapture). This is why in Rev. 14 we see the 144,000 (5 million Jews who repent) code telling us Israel will be harvested when Jesus shows up, and so will the wicked tares in Rev. 14:17-20, but they are shown here as evil grapes placed in the wine-press of God's wrath. Rev. 14 is the Harvest chapter, so in order to get all three harvests into that one chapter, Rev. 14:14 shows a cinematic like "flashback" to the pre 70th week rapture. People understand cinematic flashbacks, but can not understand God using them, but alas He does.
You are correct, the tares will be killed, placed in the grave, and burned 1000 yeas later. (2nd Resurrection)
It "clearly says" in the midst (1290 is in the midst) of the week (70th 7).
The reason I hardly ever debate nominal points like something being plural, is because words used back then could be either or, used in plural, or not in plural. Also, the Abomination could be many days, thus every day was an abomination etc. etc. I study these trivial things in depth.
#8251 שִׁקּוּץ shiqquwts {shik-koots'}
or שִׁקֻּץ shiqquts {shik-koots'}
from H8262; TWOT - 2459b; n m
—
Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) detestable thing or idol, abominable thing, abomination, idol,
detested thing
—
Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
From H8262; disgusting, that is, filthy; especially idolatrous or (concretely)
an idol:—abominable filth (idol, -ation), detestable (thing).
—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)
#8251.
שִׁקּוּץ
shiqquts or
[or] שִׁקֻּץ
shiqquts (1055a); from the same as 8263; detested thing:—
NASB - abominable idols(1),
abomination(4), abominations(5), detestable(1), detestable
idol(3), detestable idols(2), detestable things(10), detested things(1), filth(1).
—
NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries
Copyright © 1981, 1998 by The Lockman Foundation — All rights reserved —
So, whatever the point was about "plural" falls on its face when that word can be used as plural or as singular. The context seems to suggest elsewhere that this is a singular image, see Rev. 13 and Jesus' own words in Matt. 24:15 where he says abomination of desolation, not abominations.
15 When ye therefore shall see
the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place, {whoso readeth, let him understand}
So, discount that whole point, but in truth, I did not follow your reasoning there anyway.
Also, the 30 days of desolation is in Dan 9:26 And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.
Then the covenant is made (after the 30 days/ events of Rev 9:13-21), then broken 1260 days later at the 7th Trumpet.
That passage was about the 70 AD events my friend. The people (Romans of 70 AD) of the prince to come [2000 years later] shall destroy the city (Jerusalem) and the sanctuary (Temple). Its end shall come with a flood (Jerusalem is destroyed by an Army which is what flood means here) and to the end of the war desolations are decreed (God will allow the Diaspora to happen, which desolates Israel for 2000 years)
The Agreement between the A.C. and Israel comes through the nation he rules over, the E.U. You see Israel will join the E.U. its that simple.
Why would Jesus wait 30 days?
To give Israel 30 days to flee Judea before God's wrath falls. Read Rev. 18:4, God tells His people (Israel) to come out of the midst of her (Babylon in Rev. 18:2 which means the whole world) so that she will not partake in their sins nor their plagues !! Get it now? Babylon in vs. 2 is inhabited by Demons, and who gets cast down to earth at that time? Satan and his demons, and Apollyon and his demons are released from the bottomless pit also.
You see, the A.C. can not go forth until the 1260 middle of the week, which comes 30 days after the 1290 AoD, has it never sparked curiosity with you why God would allow the A.C. to conquer Israel and God then tells them it is time to flee Judea? That sounds like a modern day politician's mistake, God would never make that kind of mistake, yet people just accept that God allows the Beast to conquer Israel and then afterwards warns them to flee Judea. It does not add up my brother.
