The Ten Commandments

[Der Alte]

????
No. Why on earth would you think that is what I'm implying????
If it help you to understand my post, I was not implying anything. I meant what I actually posted.
Now, if a scholar in an ancient language (any ancient language) claimed to be superior because they speak a contemporary version of that language, then I would question his/ her scholarship.

Greek scholars didn't make the claim, I did. The native Greek speaking scholars are supported by 2000 years +/- of continuous Greek scholarship. And I know that the EOB is superior to any unsupported opinions being offered here.

 

[Der Alte]

Perhaps you can find the scripture that says the Sabbath is the holy day of the Jews.
God said the Sabbath is the holy day of the Lord thy God Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13 Genesis 2:1-3 and God commands us to keep holy the same day that is holy to Him Exodus 20:8-11 because we are made in His image and to follow Him and His example.
This post is about the Ten Commandments. There is no such commandment for Sunday or first-day keeping in scripture, but there is for Sabbath-keeping, written by God and we are told not to add or subtract from His commandments.

Are the 2 verses I quoted the word of God? Exodus 31:16, Leviticus 24:8

Romans 14:5-6
(5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
(6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.​

You are free to observe which day you choose. You are not free to beat people over the head with the Bible forcing them to accept your interpretation, no matter how sincerely you believe it.

 

[John Caldwell]

Greek scholars didn't make the claim, I did. The native Greek speaking scholars are supported by 2000 years +/- of continuous Greek scholarship. And I know that the EOB is superior to any unsupported opinions being offered here.

I didn't think any scholar would make the claim.

I studied Koine Greek at the graduate level, and I (NOT being anything remotely akin to a scholar in the language) realized quickly that Koine Greek is substantily different from contemporary Greek (there are pros and cons to knowing Greek).

Koine Greek evolved into Byzantine/Medieval Greek and ultimately evolved into the Greek. Not only has the vocabulary and syntax significantly changed but we are talking about an entirely different culture (which affects how words are used).

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Matthew 28:1 Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

Here is the same story in Luke:

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

Even after Jesus died His people still kept the Sabbath commandment.

In biblical times the days start in the evening. See Genesis 1

Genesis 1:19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Lev 23:32 from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath.

Israel is just a name God gave to identify His people. Which is why the New Covenant continues to be made with the house of Israel and not gentiles. There is no more Jew or Gentile if one is in Christ, just God's people. Galatians 3:26-28


Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people

The Sabbath is part of God's law, written personally by God Exodus 31:18 spoken by God Exodus 20, so this argument is not with man.

You are mistaken.
Israel has defined 5 things in scripture.
Jesus himself is the true Israel, and us in Him. Isa49.1-8
We are not the sperma of Abraham, but rather the teknon of Abraham
Children of physical seed...sperma
Children of promise...teknon
Rom9:6-8.
The ten commandments pre date Israel.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Are the 2 verses I quoted the word of God? Exodus 31:16, Leviticus 24:8

Romans 14:5-6
(5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
(6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.​

You are free to observe which day you choose. You are not free to beat people over the head with the Bible forcing them to accept your interpretation, no matter how sincerely you believe it.

This is not referring to the seventh day Sabbath commandment, which is why the Sabbah is not mentioned once in this passage. You are adding what's not there.

God is not man and what day God esteems over all other days is or should be the final word. Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11

 

[bbbbbbb]

The issue of whether followers of God should follow what God has commanded in accordance with Christ's example is independent of whether someone is properly obeying it. Even if someone were the biggest hypocrite in the world, that wouldn't mean that they were wrong that followers of God should follow what God has commanded in accordance with Christ's example.

He didn't, though slavery in the Bible is not colonial slavery.

You mention Christ's example in relation to our keeping of the law. I offer the following observations.

1. Christ did not keep scores of Old Testament commandments simply for the reason that they were inapplicable to Him. For example, all of the commandments related to females. Therefore, women are now to follow His example and ignore the Law, especially those commandments related to females in particular.

2. Christ did keep many commandments which were since determined to be inapplicable to Gentile believers. For example, He was circumcised, but the Council in Jerusalem determined that circumcision need not be enforced on Gentiles. Jesus kept the dietary law, but the Council in Jerusalem relaxed the dietary law for Gentiles.

3. Jesus added to the Law, specifically by giving his disciples his "new commandment". This is directly related to His new covenant, which, according to the letter to the Hebrews, differs vastly from the old covenant.

Concerning slavery, I am not familiar with the term "colonial slavery". It seems to me that the Romans certainly practiced it, or something very like it. If that is true, then God never condemned it and, in fact, Paul upheld it by giving instructions for slaves and masters.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Meaning?

Meaning that your assertion is flawed.

 

[Der Alte]

I didn't think any scholar would make the claim.
I studied Koine Greek at the graduate level, and I (NOT being anything remotely akin to a scholar in the language) realized quickly that Koine Greek is substantily different from contemporary Greek (there are pros and cons to knowing Greek).
Koine Greek evolved into Byzantine/Medieval Greek and ultimately evolved into the Greek. Not only has the vocabulary and syntax significantly changed but we are talking about an entirely different culture (which affects how words are used).

Made me laugh. Why are you belaboring this? The native Greek speaking scholars who translated the EOB would have known all this.
In my late teens I started learning to speak Greek the year that Elvis and I were stationed in Germany, at the same time. I think that was also the year of Sputnik 1. I had to oversee civilian workers. Germany, civilians so I spoke German to them, which I learned when I was 12. One said to me "You speak good German. We not German, we Greek." I said "Good. Teach me Greek." He pointed to a table and said "τραπέζη." Over the next year I learned more and more not knowing that 2 decades later I would be studying Greek at the graduate level. My second day in Greek class I was asked to read from the Greek N.T. My classmates were surprised how easily I read Greek. I also had one semester of Hebrew.

 

[Soyeong]

I like how you alluded to my post without actually quoting and responding to it.

Sorry, I am not sure which of your posts you are referring to. Your first post in this thread is #10, while you were responding to my post #4, so how could I respond to a post you had not yet written?

In Acts 15 and 21 when Paul and the elders from Jerusalem decided on the only requirements for gentile Christians, stated three times, why did they NOT include the Sabbath? How would the former pagan Christians in Rome. Corinth, Ephesus, Galatia, Philippi,
Colossae, Thessalonika etc. know to observe the Sabbath with no OT? Nowhere in the entire NT are Gentile Christians ever told to keep the Sabbath.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the nations, and God’s law is how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), which includes the command to keep the Sabbath holy (Exodus 20:8-11), so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel message. Furthermore in Matthew 24:12-14, Jesus prophesied that this Gospel would be proclaimed to all nations and in Matthew 28:16-20, he commissioned it to be spread to the nations. In addition, Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God’s law, including keeping the Sabbath holy, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), and to be imitators of Paul as he is an imitator of Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1). In Acts 15 and 21, they did not rule that Gentile should refuse to follow the law that Christ spent his ministry teaching us to follow by word and by example and that Gentiles should reject the Gospel outside of a handful of commands, and even if they had ruled against Gentiles following Christ, then we should follow Christ instead of them. Even if Gentiles had no obligation to walk in God’s way in accordance with the promise, Gentiles should seek to have the delight of getting to do that. God’s word should not be interpreted as speaking against obeying God’s word.

 

[Der Alte]

This is not referring to the seventh day Sabbath commandment, which is why the Sabbah is not mentioned once in this passage. You are adding what's not there.
God is not man and what day God esteems over all other days is or should be the final word. Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11

You interpret the passage the way you have been taught. I will interpret it my way. Nothing gives you the right to beat people over the head with the Bible and force your interpretation on them.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You interpret the passage the way you have been taught. I will interpret it my way. Nothing gives you the right to beat people over the head with the Bible and force your interpretation on them.

Doesn't change the fact the Sabbath commandment is not mentioned once in this passage. If a commandment of God that Jesus was crucified over because He was accused of breaking when He did not was going to end in scripture, it would be something that is as clear as the way God wrote it. Not a whole passage that doesn't mention the Sabbath once and if read in context would know its about faith, judging and food and nothing to do with the Sabbath commandment.

Romans 14:1 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

 

[Der Alte]

Sorry, I am not sure which of your posts you are referring to. Your first post in this thread is #10, while you were responding to my post #4, so how could I respond to a post you had not yet written?
In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the nations, and God’s law is how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), which includes the command to keep the Sabbath holy (Exodus 20:8-11), so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel message. Furthermore in Matthew 24:12-14, Jesus prophesied that this Gospel would be proclaimed to all nations and in Matthew 28:16-20, he commissioned it to be spread to the nations. In addition, Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God’s law, including keeping the Sabbath holy, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), and to be imitators of Paul as he is an imitator of Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1). In Acts 15 and 21, they did not rule that Gentile should refuse to follow the law that Christ spent his ministry teaching us to follow by word and by example and that Gentiles should reject the Gospel outside of a handful of commands, and even if they had ruled against Gentiles following Christ, then we should follow Christ instead of them. Even if Gentiles had no obligation to walk in God’s way in accordance with the promise, Gentiles should seek to have the delight of getting to do that. God’s word should not be interpreted as speaking against obeying God’s word.

Have you ever heard of "paragraphs?"
Please show me where gentile Christians were taught what the Sabbath is and were commanded to observe it and how to observe it.
Not only would very few of the people at that time have copies of the gospels and epistles almost none would have the O.T.

1906 Jewish Encyclopedia -Gentiles May Not Be Taught the Torah.
Inasmuch as the Jews had their own distinct jurisdiction, it would have been unwise to reveal their laws to the Gentiles, for such knowledge might have operated against the Jews in their opponents' courts. Hence the Talmud prohibited the teaching to a Gentile of the Torah, "the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob" (Deut. xxxiii. 4). R. Johanan says of one so teaching: "Such a person deserves death."
Resh Laḳish (d. 278) said, "A Gentile observing the Sabbath deserves death" (Sanh. 58b). This refers to a Gentile who accepted the seven laws of the Noachidæ, inasmuch as "the Sabbath is a sign between God and Israel alone," and it was probably directed against the Christian Jews, who disregarded the Mosaic laws and yet at that time kept up the observance of the Jewish Sabbath.
"not even on Mondays [is the Gentile allowed to rest]"; intimating that the mandate given to the Noachidæ that "day and night shall not cease" (

="have no rest ") should be taken in a literal sense (Gen. viii. 22)
"The Torah outlawed the issue of a Gentile as that of a beast" (Miḳ. viii. 4, referring to Ezek. l.c.).
"The wise among the heathen is called and must be honored as a wise man" (Meg. 16a), is one of Johanan's sayings, though he is also the author of another which holds that, as the Torah was given as a heritage to Israel, a non-Israelite deserves death if he studies it (Sanh. 59a).
GENTILE - JewishEncyclopedia.com​

 

[Soyeong]

Are the 2 verses I quoted the word of God? Exodus 31:16, Leviticus 24:8

Romans 14:5-6
(5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
(6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.​

You are free to observe which day you choose. You are not free to beat people over the head with the Bible forcing them to accept your interpretation, no matter how sincerely you believe it.

The topic of Romans 14:1 is in regard to handling disputable matters of opinion in which God has given no command, not in regard to whether followers of God should follow what God has commanded. For example, in Romans 14:2-3, Paul spoke about those who were of the disputable opinion that only vegetables should be eaten when God had given no command to eat only vegetables. Likewise, in Romans 14:5-6, Paul spoke about eating or refraining from eating unto the Lord, so he was speaking about those who esteem certain days for fasting as a matter of opinion, such as in Luke 18:12, where he was looking down on someone who didn’t fast twice a week even though God has given no command to do that.

Paul was not suggesting that we are free to commit murder, adultery, idolatry, break the Sabbath, or disobey any of God’s other commands just as long as we are convinced in our own minds that it is ok to rebel against God, but rather that was only said in regard to things that are disputable matters of opinion. The reason why we are to keep the Sabbath holy is not because man esteemed it as a matter of opinion, but because God rested on it, blessed it, made it holy, and commanded his followers to keep it holy. Furthermore, what is holy to God should not be profaned by man, so we would still be obligated to keep the Sabbath holy even if God had never commanded anyone to do that. We should be careful not to mistake what Paul only said against man’s opinions as being against obeying what God has commanded as if he were not a servant of God.

 

[Der Alte]

The topic of Romans 14:1 is in regard to handling disputable matters of opinion in which God has given no command, not in regard to whether followers of God should follow what God has commanded. For example, in Romans 14:2-3, Paul spoke about those who were of the disputable opinion that only vegetables should be eaten when God had given no command to eat only vegetables. Likewise, in Romans 14:5-6, Paul spoke about eating or refraining from eating unto the Lord, so he was speaking about those who esteem certain days for fasting as a matter of opinion, such as in Luke 18:12, where he was looking down on someone who didn’t fast twice a week even though God has given no command to do that.
Paul was not suggesting that we are free to commit murder, adultery, idolatry, break the Sabbath, or disobey any of God’s other commands just as long as we are convinced in our own minds that it is ok to rebel against God, but rather that was only said in regard to things that are disputable matters of opinion. The reason why we are to keep the Sabbath holy is not because man esteemed it as a matter of opinion, but because God rested on it, blessed it, made it holy, and commanded his followers to keep it holy. Furthermore, what is holy to God should not be profaned by man, so we would still be obligated to keep the Sabbath holy even if God had never commanded anyone to do that. We should be careful not to mistake what Paul only said against man’s opinions as being against obeying what God has commanded as if he were not a servant of God.[

See my post #32, above.

 

[RobertPate]

The Ten Commandments expanded by Jesus:

Exodus 20:3-17:

1/ You shall have no other gods before Me.

It is written: You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only you shall serve.

Luke 4:8, Matthew 4:10, Rev. 14:7

2/ You must not make for yourself a carved image, a likeness of anything in heaven, on earth, or under the sea.

God is Spirit and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.

John 4:24, Acts 15:20, 1 Cor. 6:9, Ephesians 5:5, 1 Peter 4:3, 1 John 5:21, Rev. 2:14

3/ You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain.

I say to you: do not swear at all…let your yes be yes and your no be no, for whatever is more than these is from the evil one. Matthew 5:34-37, 1 Timothy 6:1, James 2:7

4/ Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

The Sabbath [seventh day] was made for man, not man for the Sabbath, so the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath. Mark 2:27-28

For Christians that seventh day is Sunday, as the first day of our week is Monday. Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2

5/ Honour your father and mother.

Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. Ephesians 6:1, Col 3:20

6/ You shall not murder.

I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.

Matthew 5:44-45, Matt. 5:21-26, Romans 13:9, 1 Tim. 1:9, 1 John 3:15

7/ You shall not commit adultery.

I say to you whoever even looks at another in lust has already committed adultery in their heart. Matthew 5:28, 1 Cor. 5:11, 1 Cor. 6:18, Galatians 5:19, Hebrews 13:4

8/ You shall not steal.

Neither thieves, the greedy, or drunkards and robbers will inherit the Kingdom.

1 Corinthians 6:10, Romans 2:21, Mark 7:21, Ephesians 4:28

9/ You shall not bear false witness.

For by your words, you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned. Matthew 15:19, Ephesians 4:25, Colossians3:9

10/ You shall not covet your neighbours possessions.

Take heed and beware of covetousness, for one’s life does not consist of the things he possesses.

Luke 12:15, Romans 7:7, Ephesians 5:3, 1 Tim. 6:10, Hebrews 13:5

Further New Testament scriptures:

John 1:17 The Law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Luke 16:16a The Law and the prophets were until John the Baptizer, now the good news of the Kingdom is preached...

Matthew 5:17 I have come not to abolish the Law, but to fulfil it.

Romans 6:15 Can we sin then because we are not under the Law? God forbid!

Galatians 5:14 The whole Law is fulfilled in this: You shall love your neighbour as yourself.

Are the Ten Commandments still in effect? In principal they still are. Those Ten Commandments are restated and expanded by Jesus, we must obey them and do God’s will for us today. Matthew 5:20, 1 Peter 2:16

What are you going to do about this scripture?

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4.

 

[Der Alte]

What are you going to do about this scripture?
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4.

I'm sure the Sabbatarians have an answer for that. Not a good answer but an answer.

 

[keras]

Interesting replies!
As usual, the Sabbath day is an issue. But it should not be, as the Commandment simply states that we must observe a seventh day of rest.
It doesn't matter which day we choose, in fact it is a mistake to go with Jewish traditions, or to promote Saturday as the exact seventh day since Creation. Both of those reasons are wrong, as Calander changes have made that calculation impossible.

My hope is that people can make use of how Jesus expanded on the Ten Commandments.
AND that an 'exam' for us all is coming, a test of our faith.

 

[Der Alte]

Interesting replies!
As usual, the Sabbath day is an issue. But it should not be, as the Commandment simply states that we must observe a seventh day of rest.
It doesn't matter which day we choose, in fact it is a mistake to go with Jewish traditions, or to promote Saturday as the exact seventh day since Creation. Both of those reasons are wrong, as Calander changes have made that calculation impossible.

My hope is that people can make use of how Jesus expanded on the Ten Commandments.
AND that an 'exam' for us all is coming, a test of our faith.

Hear! Hear!

 

[RobertPate]

Interesting replies!
As usual, the Sabbath day is an issue. But it should not be, as the Commandment simply states that we must observe a seventh day of rest.
It doesn't matter which day we choose, in fact it is a mistake to go with Jewish traditions, or to promote Saturday as the exact seventh day since Creation. Both of those reasons are wrong, as Calander changes have made that calculation impossible.

My hope is that people can make use of how Jesus expanded on the Ten Commandments.
AND that an 'exam' for us all is coming, a test of our faith.

I would still like to hear your answer to... "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness, for those that believe" Romans 10:4.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Meaning that your assertion is flawed.

In what way? Biblically, Sunday is the first day of the week, it is not the 7th day.