The seventh seal opened and Revelation unfolds

[Jerryhuerta]

The anointing of the most holy took place in preparation for Jesus's burial - the messiah cutoff.

Matthew26:12 For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did it for my burial.

13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

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The prophecy of the 70 weeks is not sealed until Jesus returns.


The little horn person is time of the end. 1844 was not time of the end.

Right after Christ was baptized and after his wilderness experience, he stood up in the synagogue to read from Isaiah:

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruise, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. (Luke 4:18-19)​

Isaiah was prophesizing about Christ when he wrote, and Christ reveals he is already anointed at that time because “the Spirit of the Lord was upon him.” This refers to his baptism by John and its consequences.

Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. (Matthew 3:13-17)​

The seventy weeks were sealed at Christ’s anointing at his Baptism. No doubt, it is in how “unto the Messiah” must be interpreted.

As to the 2300 evening/mornings, its determination has to consider the little horn that comes up out of one of the four horns of the goat in verse 9, which is revealed as the Greek empire in verse 21. More appropriately, the little horn comes out of one of the four kingdoms Alexander's empire was divided into. In the latter time of these four kingdoms, according to verse 23. It stands up against Christ and is broken without hands in verse 25 and in conformity with Daniel 2:34.

You keep side-stepping all this too because it doesn’t support your gap theory for the seventieth week and that the antichrist is not a person.

 

[Douggg]

The seventy weeks were sealed at Christ’s anointing at his Baptism. No doubt, it is in how “unto the Messiah” must be interpreted.

"unto the messiah" is His arrival in Jerusalem, not three years prior in the Jordan river wilderness.

The messiah cutoff in Daniel 9:26a, is Jesus being crucified, anointed for his burial by the woman in Matthew 26.

As to the 2300 evening/mornings, its determination has to consider the little horn that comes up out of one of the four horns of the goat in verse 9, which is revealed as the Greek empire in verse 21

In verse 23, out of the kingdom of the transgressors' the little horn stands up, an idiom for prepares to go to war.

Daniel 8:9, is that he will wax strong, south and east, from the territory of one of the four breakup kingdoms - Greece, which is the eastern most frontier of the EU, with a strong army into the middle east and the pleasant land - following Gog/Magog's destruction.

You can't see that the Russian aggression on one side, and Zelensky, a Jew, suddenly on the world scene in prominence as a political and military leader, on the other side, is heading in direction of Putin being Gog and Zelensky the little horn person? Eventually to become the Antichrist?

"can one man save the world ?" song about Zelensky on You Tube.

Verse 23, the EU. Ukraine got candidate status a couple of weeks ago, and is being put on fast-track to full membership.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

"unto the messiah" is His arrival in Jerusalem, not three years prior in the Jordan river wilderness.

The messiah cutoff in Daniel 9:26a, is Jesus being crucified, anointed for his burial by the woman in Matthew 26.


In verse 23, out of the kingdom of the transgressors' the little horn stands up, an idiom for prepares to go to war.

Daniel 8:9, is that he will wax strong, south and east, from the territory of one of the four breakup kingdoms - Greece, which is the eastern most frontier of the EU, with a strong army into the middle east and the pleasant land - following Gog/Magog's destruction.

You can't see that the Russian aggression on one side, and Zelensky, a Jew, suddenly on the world scene in prominence as a political and military leader, on the other side, is heading in direction of Putin being Gog and Zelensky the little horn person? Eventually to become the Antichrist?

"can one man save the world ?" song about Zelensky on You Tube.

Verse 23, the EU. Ukraine got candidate status a couple of weeks ago, and is being put on fast-track to full membership.

Doug, you can’t get past that Christ was anointed at his baptism according to Matthew 3:13-17 and Luke 4:18-19. And it is his anointing that seals the seventy weeks (Daniel 9:24). The seventy weeks were sealed at Christ’s anointing and Baptism. No doubt, it is in how “unto the Messiah” must be interpreted.

Pagan Rome conquered Macedonia, one of the four horns, and waxed exceeding greater than Alexander towards the south, the east, and the pleasant land” (Daniel 8:9). Rome waxed to the south, and Egypt was ultimately made a province in 30 BC. Antiochus Magnus was made to pay tribute, and Syria became a province in 65 BC as Rome waxed to the east. The pleasant land is Judea, made a province in 63 BC.

Pope Urban II sanctioned the first Crusade that invaded the pleasant land from the same western dominion that was once Macedonia and inevitably took possession of Jerusalem for the pope in AD 1099. The fourth Crusade sacked Constantinople in AD 1204, which fulfilled the criterion that the little horn waxed exceeding great to the east. In AD 1218 the fifth Crusade besieged the Egyptian port of Damietta and held it for two years at the completion of the siege, fulfilling the criterion that the little horn waxed exceeding great to the south.

From the website, Bible History:

The Grecian, or Macedonian Empire, rose up by conquering the existing Persian Empire. Alexander the Great, quickly and powerfully conquered the Persians in a brilliant series of battles, and Greece became the masters of the Oriental World. Alexander died in 321 BC, and after his death his empire was divided into four Kingdoms, the most important were Seleucus in Asia, and Ptolemy in Africa. In the division Israel became a part of Syria, under the authority of Seleucus.​

Daniel goes on to prophecy about the Seleucid empire and the Ptolemys in chapter 11 as the kings of the south and north. According to the grammatical-historical hermeneutic, the OT has to be understood primarily by the people to whom it was written. It was not written primarily to eighteenth-century persons of John Darby’s persuasions; that would be an epitome of an anachronism.

 

[Douggg]

Doug, you can’t get past that Christ was anointed at his baptism according to Matthew 3:13-17 and Luke 4:18-19. And it is his anointing that seals the seventy weeks (Daniel 9:24). The seventy weeks were sealed at Christ’s anointing and Baptism. No doubt, it is in how “unto the Messiah” must be interpreted.

You can't get past that the Jordan river is not in Jerusalem and is in the wilderness, where Jesus was not hailed as the messiah, King of Israel by them in Jerusalem. And three years earlier to his being cutoff.

The 70 weeks are complete, when the vision of the little horn and prophecy are complete. Jesus's return is central to bible prophecy,

Pope Urban II sanctioned the first Crusade that invaded the pleasant land from the same western dominion that was once Macedonia and inevitably took possession of Jerusalem for the pope in AD 1099. The fourth Crusade sacked Constantinople in AD 1204, which fulfilled the criterion that the little horn waxed exceeding great to the east. In AD 1218 the fifth Crusade besieged the Egyptian port of Damietta and held it for two years at the completion of the siege, fulfilling the criterion that the little horn waxed exceeding great to the south.

Are you trying to say that whoever is the Pope is the little horn?

1844 is not time of the end, Jerry.

You are living in the time of the end.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

You can't get past that the Jordan river is not in Jerusalem and is in the wilderness, where Jesus was not hailed as the messiah, King of Israel by them in Jerusalem. And three years earlier to his being cutoff.

The 70 weeks are complete, when the vision of the little horn and prophecy are complete. Jesus's return is central to bible prophecy,

Are you trying to say that whoever is the Pope is the little horn?

1844 is not time of the end, Jerry.

You are living in the time of the end.

Doug, please cut and paste the passage in Daniel 9:25-27 that conveys that “unto the Messiah” is expressed as “Christ being hailed as King.” You are making that up. I do see what is expected by the seventy weeks is the anointing of Christ in verse 24 which expresses what we are to look for in the phrase “unto the Messiah.” I don’t need to get past your impression because it is not found in the context, while my analysis is.

There isn’t anything in the seventy weeks about the return of Christ either, merely his appearance on the scene and its significance, his anointing, which is what “unto the Messiah” entails.

The historicist interpretation holds the little horn is a religious, political system with a jurisdiction just like the other beasts in Daniel. In speaking of the little horn Daniel wrote,

I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. (Daniel 8:11)​

Now, this is after the judgment is set in the previous verses, which cannot be interpreted other than the conclusion of the judgment illustrated in the Revelation that leads to the casting of the beast and the false prophet in chapter 19. Christ enters the sanctuary and judgment scene in Daniel 7 just as in the sanctuary scene in Revelation 4-5, which connects them and establishes them as the final judgment under Christ’s mediation.

As stated previously, the context of Daniel 8 cannot be construed as modern times, by any true grammatical-historical hermeneutic. If one reads the ante-Nicene authors, they knew the beasts in Daniel as the ancient empires from that time like Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome. Maintaining the grammatical-historical hermeneutic is indispensable in interpreting scripture faithfully. What we are dealing with in the little horn is a protracted religious, and political entity and not a mere person. Your assertions, and futurists’ assertions in general, are anachronisms.

 

[Douggg]

Doug, please cut and paste the passage in Daniel 9:25-27 that expresses that “unto the Messiah” is expressed as “Christ being hailed as King.” You are making that up.

Messiah being King of Israel is built into the meaning of being the messiah.

Messiah means anointed. The kings and priests in old testaments days were considered anointeds. "the" messiah is one specific anointed.

Christ, Christos, is a greek version of messiah.

It was common knowledge among the Jews back in Jesus's first coming day that the messiah would be the King of Israel.

In Mark 15:32, even the scribes and pharisees were mocking Jesus on the cross as Christ the King of Israel.

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

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In Christianity, we are oriented to think of the messiah as being the Savior from our sins, which of course Jesus is. But we are not oriented to think of the messiah as being the King of Israel coming in the name of the Lord.

The Antichrist person will be the coming person who is anointed the King of Israel; the Jews thinking the little horn, the prince who shall come, following Gog/Magog is their long awaited messiah.

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The historicist interpretation holds the little horn is a religious, political system with a jurisdiction just like the other beasts in Daniel. In speaking of the little horn Daniel wrote,

That sounds a lot like SDA doctrine to me.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

Messiah being King of Israel is built into the meaning of being the messiah.

Messiah means anointed. The kings and priests in old testaments days were considered anointeds. "the" messiah is one specific anointed.

Christ, Christos, is a greek version of messiah.

It was common knowledge among the Jews back in Jesus's first coming day that the messiah would be the King of Israel.

In Mark 15:32, even the scribes and pharisees were mocking Jesus on the cross as Christ the King of Israel.

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

_____________________________________________________________

In Christianity, we are oriented to think of the messiah as being the Savior from our sins, which of course Jesus is. But we are not oriented to think of the messiah as being the King of Israel coming in the name of the Lord.

The Antichrist person will be the coming person who is anointed the King of Israel; the Jews thinking the little horn, the prince who shall come, following Gog/Magog is their long awaited messiah.

____________________________________________________________



That sounds a lot like SDA doctrine to me.

Anointing wasn’t just for kings, but for prophets also and other reasons (1 Kings 19:16). And Christ did not come as a king as he will be at his return. He came as a lowly servant.

When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone. (John 6:15)

And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. (Luke 19:11-12)​

Kings are ministered to, but not Christ; he came to minister to us and give his life a ransom for many (Matthew 20:28).

And you're making all that stuff up about the antichrist becoming king of Israel! Nothing is stated about that in Daniel 9, period.

And the Jews were not right about Christ in the first place, so what's your point?

As I documented previously the SDAs are johnny-come-latelys on the issue of prophetic timing, like the day-year interpretation of the seventy weeks and 2300 evening/mornings.

 

[Douggg]

And the Jews were not right about Christ in the first place, so what's your point?

The messiah, the christ = the King of Israel coming in the name of the Lord. The one who God anointed to be the King of Israel.

The anti messiah, the anti christ = the King of Israel coming in his own name. Someone that God did not choose to be the King of Israel.

 

[Douggg]

I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. (Daniel 8:11)
Now, this is after the judgment is set in the previous verses, which cannot be interpreted other than the conclusion of the judgment illustrated in the Revelation that leads to the casting of the beast and the false prophet in chapter 19. Christ enters the sanctuary and judgment scene in Daniel 7 just as in the sanctuary scene in Revelation 4-5, which connects them and establishes them as the final judgment under Christ’s mediation.

I have no idea of what you are trying to convey. Jesus, when He returns in Zechariah 14:4, He stands on the Mt of Olives splitting it apart and the beast (the little horn person), and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire, and Satan into the bottomless pit.

Here is a illustration I made of that event. To end the 70 weeks.

Please create, or provide an illustration of what happens on the day of Jesus's return at the Mt of Olives.


the little horn > becomes the prince who shall come > becomes the Antichrist > becomes the revealed man of sin > becomes the beast

 

[Jerryhuerta]

The messiah, the christ = the King of Israel coming in the name of the Lord. The one who God anointed to be the King of Israel.

The anti messiah, the anti christ = the King of Israel coming in his own name. Someone that God did not choose to be the King of Israel.

You don't truely read posts, do you? Anointing wasn't just for kings. High priests were also anointed. Christ dispelled the notion that he was anointed as king by John in the parable of the Ten Minas (Luke 19:11-27). He had to leave to receive his kingdom, which is what Psalms 110 also affirms. Christ is appointed or anointed as a high priest by his Father before he returns as king.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

I have no idea of what you are trying to convey. Jesus, when He returns in Zechariah 14:4, He stands on the Mt of Olives splitting it apart and the beast (the little horn person), and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire, and Satan into the bottomless pit.

Here is a illustration I made of that event. To end the 70 weeks.

Please create, or provide an illustration of what happens on the day of Jesus's return at the Mt of Olives.


the little horn > becomes the prince who shall come > becomes the Antichrist > becomes the revealed man of sin > becomes the beast


View attachment 318570

I have no idea of what you are trying to convey. Jesus, when He returns in Zechariah 14:4, He stands on the Mt of Olives splitting it apart and the beast (the little horn person), and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire, and Satan into the bottomless pit.

Here is a illustration I made of that event. To end the 70 weeks.

Please create, or provide an illustration of what happens on the day of Jesus's return at the Mt of Olives.


the little horn > becomes the prince who shall come > becomes the Antichrist > becomes the revealed man of sin > becomes the beast


View attachment 318570

As of yet, you have not given any scriptural evidence that vindicates the seventieth week pertains to Christ's return. I've given evidence that the phrase "unto the Messiah" applies to his anointing by John, which maintains the seventieth week commences with Christ's ministry and midway through the week he is "cut off" in accord with Daniel 9:26. Such evidence vindicates half of the seventieth week has already fulfilled and the last part has an explanation that is wasted on futurists, so no need to go there. Needless to say, all of the seventieth week has already been fulfilled.

You can't grasp any analysis of Daniel 8 or 9 other than the futurist and won't address the issue of the grammatical-historical hermeneutic that thwarts your view of the little horn as a future person. I'll continue to expound but without expectations, it's for your benefit though.

And silly charts don't impress me.

 

[Douggg]

You don't truely read posts, do you? Anointing wasn't just for kings. High priests were also anointed. Christ dispelled the notion that he was anointed as king by John in the parable of the Ten Minas (Luke 19:11-27). He had to leave to receive his kingdom, which is what Psalms 110 also affirms. Christ is appointed or anointed as a high priest by his Father before he returns as king.

Why then did the Jews themselves call Jesus - Christ the King of Israel ?

And why was on the cross was the plaque saying - Jesus of Nazerth, King of the Jews - ?

I also written in my post #86 before your comment in post #90 that both the kings and the priests were considered anointeds. You are the one not reading.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

Why then did the Jews themselves call Jesus - Christ the King of Israel ?

And why was on the cross was the plaque saying - Jesus of Nazerth, King of the Jews - ?

I also written before your comment that both the kings and the priests were considered anointeds. You are the one not reading.

Really, aren't you able to grasp that the Jews were mocking Christ and the Romans nailed the plaque to infuriate the Jews?

As of yet, you have not given any scriptural evidence that vindicates the seventieth week pertains to Christ's return. I've given evidence that the phrase "unto the Messiah" applies to his anointing by John, which maintains the seventieth week commences with Christ's ministry and midway through the week he is "cut off" in accord with Daniel 9:26. Such evidence vindicates half of the seventieth week has already been fulfilled and the last part has an explanation that is wasted on futurists. Until you concede that Daniel 9:25-26 pertains to half of the seventieth week there is no need to relate the details of the last part of the week fulfilled at Christ's first advent.

 

[Douggg]

You can't grasp any analysis of Daniel 8 or 9 other than the futurist and won't address the issue of the grammatical-historical hermeneutic that thwarts your view of the little horn as a future person. I'll continue to expound but without expectations, it's for your benefit though.

Jerry, do you see what the title of this thread is ? Please open another thread if you want to discuss the little horn.


click anywhere on the picture to expand it.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

Jerry, do you see what the title of this thread is ? Please open another thread if you want to discuss the little horn.


click anywhere on the picture to expand it.
View attachment 318580

I jumped in when you brought the "last week" into the thread. I do believe you mentioned the antichrist too, which futurists can't resist. The rest is history.

Are we done?

 

[Douggg]

I jumped in when you brought the "last week" into the thread. I do believe you mentioned the antichrist too, which futurists can't resist. The rest is history.

Are we done?

I think you are... in this thread.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

I think you are... in this thread.

If there are no more responses to my posts then I'm done!

 

[Douggg]

If there are no more responses to my posts then I'm done!

Let's just say it was my mistake in not tagging this thread "futurists only". No more responses from me to your posts.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

Let's just say it was my mistake in not tagging this thread "futurists only". No more responses from me to your posts.

Thanks

 

[Timtofly]

I have no idea of what you are trying to convey. Jesus, when He returns in Zechariah 14:4, He stands on the Mt of Olives splitting it apart and the beast (the little horn person), and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire, and Satan into the bottomless pit.

The mount of Olives event is the 6th Seal. That is when Jesus sets up His throne and His Temple.

At the 7th Trumpet, Satan may be allowed to sit on that throne for 42 months. That allowance is the abomination of desolation of Daniel 9:27. The midst of the week is a set of days, the days of the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 10:7

Armageddon in Revelation 19 is after the 42 months. Revelation 19 is not Zechariah 14.

It will be Satan in charge, not the beast. The beast is just Satan's bully going around as an "enforcer cop".