The "Root" of the Error that the Church is "spiritual Israel"

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

There is neither Jew nor Gentile.

There is no distinction.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

QUOTE=A Brother In Christ]gal 3:28 in the body of Christ their is either jew or gentile[/QUOTE]

what SA point puting wrong after took out the verse

 

[A Brother In Christ]

gal 3:28 in the body of Christ their is either jew or gentile

if a Jew is not a Jew any more do they have promises of land any more...no

yet God still has to fulfill his covenant with Abraham

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

It's not "either", it's "neither".

Christ is the fulfillment of all the Covenants.

The "Land" is an allegory for the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[eph3Nine]

It's not "either", it's "neither".

Christ is the fulfillment of all the Covenants.

The "Land" is an allegory for the Kingdom of Heaven.

LOL...you are a hoot, as well as a wealth of information NOT found substantiated by scripture but only in the "traditions of men." We are used to that.

Christ didnt come to fulfil the covenants, but to fulfil the law and to pay the wages of sin which was DEATH.

The LAND isnt any allegory, its quite real. The Jews were the ONLY ones promised REAL ESTATE...they are the channel of blessing God will again use for this planet EARTH, at a future time.

YOU are simply ignoring alot of information and relying on 'chewed cud' from your pastor or denomination instead of studying for yourself.

Its obvious you are here to argue...we aint stooooooooopid....tehe

So, have a nice day...and bye bye now

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

LOL...you are a hoot, as well as a wealth of information NOT found substantiated by scripture but only in the "traditions of men." We are used to that.

Christ didnt come to fulfil the covenants, but to fulfil the law and to pay the wages of sin which was DEATH.

The LAND isnt any allegory, its quite real. The Jews were the ONLY ones promised REAL ESTATE...they are the channel of blessing God will again use for this planet EARTH, at a future time.

YOU are simply ignoring alot of information and relying on 'chewed cud' from your pastor or denomination instead of studying for yourself.

Its obvious you are here to argue...we aint stooooooooopid....tehe

So, have a nice day...and bye bye now

All the Covenants pointed to Christ.

"All the Law and the Prophets spoke of Me."

"the Law" was an idiom for the Pentateuch.

Your shallow understanding of Scripture leads you into all kinds of misconceptions that have been force fed to you by johnny come lately dispensationalist teachers.

By the way, dispensationalism is a new kid on the block. The Church has been Covenantal since the beginning. Dispensationalism didn't arrive on the scene until Darby in the mid-19th century.

The "Promised Land" stands as an allegory for the Kingdom of Heaven.

Haven't you heard, after the Resurrection when Christ returns, there will be a "new heavens and a new earth".

The Church is the fulfillent of Biblical Judaism, and the continuation of True Israel of God.

Haven't you heard, the True Jew is not a Jew outwardly, but whose circumcision is of the heart.

 

[JerryShugart]

The "Land" is an allegory for the Kingdom of Heaven.

Why should anyone believe this?

Are we supposed to believe that the land that was given to Jacob is in regard to the "kingdom of heaven"?:

"And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever"(ez.37:25).

Yet some will cling to the "traditions" invented by man despite the fact that it is clear that the Lord never gave the "kingdom of heaven" to Jacob.

"And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God"(Amos9:15).

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[JerryShugart]

The Church is the fulfillent of Biblical Judaism, and the continuation of True Israel of God.

Paul would be surprised to hear this.He said that the Body of Christ is a "New Man":

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of two one New Man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one Body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby"(Eph.2:15,16).

The "True Israel of God" had been in existence for hundreds of years when Paul called the Body of Christ a "New Man".So it is clear that the Body of Christ is not a "continuation of True Israel of God".

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

Paul would be surprised to hear this.He said that the Body of Christ is a "New Man":

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of two one New Man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one Body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby"(Eph.2:15,16).

The "True Israel of God" had been in existence for hundreds of years when Paul called the Body of Christ a "New Man".So it is clear that the Body of Christ is not a "continuation of True Israel of God".

In His grace,--Jerry

Paul is speaking of the tearing down of seperation between Jew and Gentile. All men in Christ are new creations. God has joined together the two, once seperated.

Gentiles are grafted into True Israel. Ethnic Jews in Christ are natural branches, but the True Jew is not one outwardly in the circumcision of the flesh, but the circumcision of the heart.

Paul calls the Church, Israel of God in Galatians 6.

 

[eph3Nine]

And we would expect a Calvinist to understand or embrace dispensationalism why?????

LOL LOL

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

And we would expect a Calvinist to understand or embrace dispensationalism why?????

LOL LOL

Of course I wouldn't embrace the errors of dispensationalism, and it's 893,376,298,970 different theories constructed by error upon error.

I love the truth too much to embrace the errors of dispensationalism.

 

[JerryShugart]

Gentiles are grafted into True Israel.

You have a problem in understanding the meaning of the word "new".If the Body of Christ is a continuation of "True Israel" then Paul would not use the term "New Man" to describe the Body of Christ.But since you obviously put more faith in the traditions of men than you do in what the Scriptures actually say you must throw your reason to the wind and pretend that Paul would call the "True Israel" a "New Man" despite the fact that "True Israel" had been around for hundreds of years.

Paul calls the Church, Israel of God in Galatians 6.

"And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God"(Gal.6:16).

In this verse we see a repetition of the preposition ("on" and "upon") and this demonstrates that two groups are in view.The first group is the churches in Galatia to whoim Paul's epistle is addressed,and the second group is the same group which Paul describes in the following verse:

"Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace..."(Ro.11:5).

This is in regard to a "remnant" out of the nation of Israel.

Of course I wouldn't embrace the errors of dispensationalism...

You choose to embrace the errors of Covenant Theology.

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

You have a problem in understanding the meaning of the word "new".If the Body of Christ is a continuation of "True Israel" then Paul would not use the term "New Man" to describe the Body of Christ.

Sure Paul would since the CONTEXT is the re-joining of what had been seperated. At other points Paul speaks of ethnic Israel, and other points speaks of True Israel, "all Israel are not of Israel".

"And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God"(Gal.6:16).

In this verse we see a repetition of the preposition ("on" and "upon") and this demonstrates that two groups are in view.The first group is the churches in Galatia to whoim Paul's epistle is addressed,and the second group is the same group which Paul describes in the following verse:

"Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace..."(Ro.11:5).

Now that is where dispensationalists get so screwy, pulling a snippet out of context and trying to force it into another completely different context.

You, like all dispensationalists, left out the preceeding passages that establishes the context of Galatians 6, and whom Paul is speaking of, and trying to use smoke and mirrors insert a foreign snippet taken out of context.


Galatians 6;
12 As many as desire to make a good showing in the flesh, these would compel you to be circumcised, only that they may not suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. 13 For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh. 14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom[a] the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

Paul is speaking of individuals and the collective who "walk according to this rule" given in verses 14 and 15. But you conveniently left those out.

Since ethnic Israel does not "walk according to this rule", and indeed reject Christ and the new creation, but walk according to the old rule of "circumcision of the flesh", it is impossible that Paul would be speaking of them.

Dispensationalism's terrible hermenuetics leads to the torture of Scripture and more errors than can be counted.

 

[eph3Nine]

The majority of professing believers today are mistakenly partaking of Covenant Theology....its sad, because the MYSTERY truths give us so much MORE and explain clearly why the covenants aren't FOR us.

Oh well, just remember...if you take on Israels blessings, you must also expect her curses...and she has seven more years of them left.

Not me...I won't be here, but in the Air, to forever be with the Lord.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

The majority of professing believers today are mistakenly partaking of Covenant Theology....its sad, because the MYSTERY truths give us so much MORE and explain clearly why the covenants aren't FOR us.

Oh well, just remember...if you take on Israels blessings, you must also expect her curses...and she has seven more years of them left.

Not me...I won't be here, but in the Air, to forever be with the Lord.

For starters, a Biblical "mystery" is truth that has not been revealed before.

Secondly, dispensationalists twist the Scriptures so badly that they miss the spiritual reality that the Covenants pointed to in Christ.

Paul is very clear that the Church comprised of Jews and Gentiles joined together in one assembly in Christ are the recipients of the Promises.

The dispensational myth that God has two distinct peoples is pure fiction and is anti-Biblical.

 

[eph3Nine]

For starters, a Biblical "mystery" is truth that has not been revealed before.

Secondly, dispensationalists twist the Scriptures so badly that they miss the spiritual reality that the Covenants pointed to in Christ.

Paul is very clear that the Church comprised of Jews and Gentiles joined together in one assembly in Christ are the recipients of the Promises.

The dispensational myth that God has two distinct peoples is pure fiction and is anti-Biblical.

The Mystery has been revealed...yes. But unfortunately, Most professing believers cant tell you what it is, to whom it was given, what doctrines are included IN IT or where it is found. I find that APPALLING, dont you?

Satans plan of evil today is to keep believers IGNORANT of the mystery truths, and bogged down in a program that ENDED two thousand years ago! He's doin a great job...its working!

As for your other comments...put up or zip it up. We have given countless scriptures to prove otherwise. All your ranting and raving isnt gonna change that God IS indeed in a different program today and its one having NADA to do with a covenant!

Ignorance is NOT something to be PROUD OF ....but something that should stop you in your tracks to INVESTIGATE and make sure you havent been sold a bill of goods by "religion", "mainline churchianity", or "denominationalism"...all of which we are warned about in Gods Word.

The Covenant Theology room is three doors down and on the left. Have fun!

 

[A Brother In Christ]

It's not "either", it's "neither".

Christ is the fulfillment of all the Covenants.

The "Land" is an allegory for the Kingdom of Heaven.

look at prophecy fulfilled .... very detailed

exactly like they where predicted....

 

[eph3Nine]

look at prophecy fulfilled .... very detailed

exactly like they where predicted....

Hi there brother

Since Prophecy has to do with the nation Israel...NOT all prophecy has yet come to pass.

Israels program was SET ASIDE before this happened, and there are yet seven years on Israels prophetic calendar that REMAIN. OUR present program of the dispensation of the GRACE of God, also known as the "preaching of Jesus Christ according to the MYSTERY" is NOT prophetic...but ONLY found in Pauls epistles and described as NEW revelation from God NEVER BEFORE GIVEN. It was HID< kept SECRET...until due time.

If you would like a book that shows you all the scriptures about this exciting event, and where to find YOUR Instructions for today...please PM me and I will be happy to mail it to you...free of charge...hows that for a deal?????

 

[GraceInHim]

The Parable of the Sower

1After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, 2and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; 3Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.



4While a large crowd was gathering and people were coming to Jesus from town after town, he told this parable: 5"A farmer went out to sow his seed. As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path; it was trampled on, and the birds of the air ate it up. 6Some fell on rock, and when it came up, the plants withered because they had no moisture. 7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up with it and choked the plants. 8Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown."



When he said this, he called out, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." 9His disciples asked him what this parable meant. 10He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that,
" 'though seeing, they may not see;
though hearing, they may not understand.'

God Blinded the Jews when Jesus came - hmmm wonder why? - Now since all the Apostles receieved this knowledge which he explains after and we also have it know - all 12 went to different places - so everyone who hears the word of God and the Good News from Jesus through the gospels can have the Kingdom of God within us - anyone - anywhere.

 

[eph3Nine]

The Parable of the Sower

1After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, 2and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; 3Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.



4While a large crowd was gathering and people were coming to Jesus from town after town, he told this parable: 5"A farmer went out to sow his seed. As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path; it was trampled on, and the birds of the air ate it up. 6Some fell on rock, and when it came up, the plants withered because they had no moisture. 7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up with it and choked the plants. 8Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown."



When he said this, he called out, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." 9His disciples asked him what this parable meant. 10He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that,
" 'though seeing, they may not see;
though hearing, they may not understand.'

God Blinded the Jews when Jesus came - hmmm wonder why? - Now since all the Apostles receieved this knowledge which he explains after and we also have it know - all 12 went to different places - so everyone who hears the word of God and the Good News from Jesus through the gospels can have the Kingdom of God within us - anyone - anywhere.

The knowledge of the secrets of the KINGDOM Of God for Israel were spoken in parables. NOT to we the body of Christ. We arent in existance here, dear one. This is the earthly program of Gods earthly people spoken to them by the words of the earthly Jesus.

NOT our program! Please stay awhile and read some of the other posts before allowing yourself to be a drive by shooter who is simply repeating ground we have already been over many times. If your buddies need help, tell em to READ what we've posted here, and then they wont have to come and get you to help em out...wink...just a suggestion.

Welcome...we encourage honest, biblical questions ONLY if you are willing to LOOK at honest biblical and rightly divided answers. I hope you return with your thinkin cap on. Its a great ride!