Trump Hates Netanyahu, No Pro-Israel Candidate

[Dale]

When I go to meetings of a local pro-Israel organization, I notice that most of the people there fervently believe that Donald Trump is good for Israel. I long ago decided that Trump simply doesn’t understand Israel or the Middle East.

Yesterday’s Jerusalem Post quotes Dr. Michael Oren, who was the Israeli Ambassador to the US until recently. Oren: “Trump also hates Netanyahu and does not forgive him for congratulating Biden when he was elected.” Given President Biden’s criticism of the war with Hamas and Israeli settlements, he concludes, “There is no pro-Israeli option here.”

Oren also points out that Biden has sometimes stood up to Congress and to many in his own party to stand with Israel. Biden does pay a political price for this, and he has used the veto power in Israel’s favor.

This is not a clear cut case of good versus evil. There are no simple answers.


Story:

Michael Oren: Trump unclear on Israel;​

Biden is supportive​

Link
Michael Oren: Trump unclear on Israel; Biden is supportive

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

I'm not an American, so I am not interested in the US' internal fightings over Trump vs Biden, but when I look at the policies these two people pursued during their presidencies it is pretty clear to me who is better for Israel:

Trump recognized Jerusalem as the united capital of the state of Israel.
Trump moved the US embassy to Jerusalem.
Trump cut the funding of Palestinian terrorist groups.
Trump withdrew from the JCPOA and put strict sanctions on Iran.
Trump achieved real peace between Israel and a number of Arab countries.

Biden renewed the funding of Palestinian terrorist groups.
Biden gave Iran access to more than $10 Billion.
Biden alienated Saudi Arabia, who were close to joining the Abraham Accords.
Biden has been constantly hindering Israel in the current war against Hamas, even going so far to threaten the suspension of arms sales if Israel keeps going.

There is a reason why Trump is popular in Israel, and Biden is not.

 

[Matt5]

I'm not buying Dr. Michael Oren at all. Everybody could see that Trump treated Israel fairly well. Nobody has to explain it. But with Biden, his support for Israel has to be explained. That's a problem.

I'm guessing that Dr. Oren just doesn't like Trump for some reason, like most America Jews. He was an American Jew until he renounced his citizenship.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Why does it matter if Trump does ir doesn't support Israel? Why does Israel matter to American Christians at all?

 

[Dale]

I'm not an American, so I am not interested in the US' internal fightings over Trump vs Biden, but when I look at the policies these two people pursued during their presidencies it is pretty clear to me who is better for Israel:

Trump recognized Jerusalem as the united capital of the state of Israel.
Trump moved the US embassy to Jerusalem.
Trump cut the funding of Palestinian terrorist groups.
Trump withdrew from the JCPOA and put strict sanctions on Iran.
Trump achieved real peace between Israel and a number of Arab countries.

Biden renewed the funding of Palestinian terrorist groups.
Biden gave Iran access to more than $10 Billion.
Biden alienated Saudi Arabia, who were close to joining the Abraham Accords.
Biden has been constantly hindering Israel in the current war against Hamas, even going so far to threaten the suspension of arms sales if Israel keeps going.

There is a reason why Trump is popular in Israel, and Biden is not.

Thanks for replying.


FR: “Trump recognized Jerusalem as the united capital of the state of Israel.”

The Capital of Israel is still in Tel Aviv.


FR: “Trump moved the US embassy to Jerusalem.”

That’s fine with me but it is symbolic at best.


FR: “Trump withdrew from the JCPOA and put strict sanctions on Iran.”

I didn’t like the JCPOA treaty but all of our allies are still parties to it. I’m not sure that withdrawing from it after the fact accomplishes anything.


FR: “Trump achieved real peace between Israel and a number of Arab countries.”

Trump sent Jared Kushner to, er, straighten out the Middle East. The Jerusalem Post called Kushner the “clown prince.” Qatar and some other Arab countries decided the time was right to settle some of their differences with Israel because they are afraid of Iran. They have come to realize that in case of war with Iran, Israel and Arab states will wind up joining together to defeat Iran.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

The Capital of Israel is still in Tel Aviv.

I am not aware of any map that says Tel Aviv is the capital of Israel. Every physical map, atlas and globe I have acknowledges Jerusalem as Israel's capital, as does google maps, as does the Wikipedia article about Israel. The capital of Israel is Jerusalem. Either way, Trump recognizing that is certainly a pro-Israel move, which is my point.

That’s fine with me but it is symbolic at best.

Sure, but it is a pro-Israel act. Which is my point

I didn’t like the JCPOA treaty but all of our allies are still parties to it. I’m not sure that withdrawing from it after the fact accomplishes anything.

Withdrawing from the JCPOA meant that all the sanctions were reimposed on Iran, extremely limiting their abilities to sponsor terrorism in the region. This is certainly good for Israel - which is my point.

Trump sent Jared Kushner to, er, straighten out the Middle East. The Jerusalem Post called Kushner the “clown prince.” Qatar and some other Arab countries decided the time was right to settle some of their differences with Israel because they are afraid of Iran. They have come to realize that in case of war with Iran, Israel and Arab states will wind up joining together to defeat Iran.

Qatar is a close ally of Iran, and didn't normalize relations with Israel. Perhaps you mean the UAE or Bahrain And yes, you are right, they think that Israel is a partner against Iran. In what way lessens that the positive effects of the peace deal though? The Abraham-Accords that Trump arranged were certainly to Israel's benefit - which is my point.

I don't see how you could argue that Trump's policies weren''t good - let alone bad - for Israel.

 

[Matt5]

Why does it matter if Trump does ir doesn't support Israel? Why does Israel matter to American Christians at all?

Those who bless Israel will be blessed, according to the Bible. Although, it's probably too late for the US to get much blessing for anything. 9/11 was the last call to turn things around. Now it's too late.

In a nutty world, Israel is one of a few sane places. That's why I support it.

 

[Dale]

Why does it matter if Trump does ir doesn't support Israel? Why does Israel matter to American Christians at all?

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

America often sees itself as a country of immigrants. Israel is also largely a country of immigrants.

There are a number of Roman Catholic countries, and a number of Moslem countries. It is perfectly reasonable that there would be one Jewish country in the world.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

America often sees itself as a country of immigrants. Israel is also largely a country of immigrants.

There are a number of Roman Catholic countries, and a number of Moslem countries. It is perfectly reasonable that there would be one Jewish country in the world.

So it's America's duty to defend at any cost to itself democracies and nations of immigrants anywhere and everywhere?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Those who bless Israel will be blessed, according to the Bible. Although, it's probably too late for the US to get much blessing for anything. 9/11 was the last call to turn things around. Now it's too late.

In a nutty world, Israel is one of a few sane places. That's why I support it.

Should the USA support Israel more or less than countries like Armenia?

 

[Dale]

So it's America's duty to defend at any cost to itself democracies and nations of immigrants anywhere and everywhere?

I don't see why you are so skeptical of that policy. In WWII, the US, Britain, Canada, Australia and the Free French, among others, formed an alliance to fight Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy and Imperial Japan. In other words, the democracies banded together to fight dictatorships and dictatorial regimes. Was that a bad idea? Yes, they were also allied with the Soviet Union, on the theory that the enemy of your enemy is your friend. The alliance with the Soviet Union did not work out as well. For instance, the Soviet Union gave us very little help fighting Imperial Japan at the end of the war, although they could easily have done so.

It used to be fashionable for many Americans to say, "We can't be the world's policeman."
Here's a reply: Can the world make it without a policeman?

 

[Dale]

I am not aware of any map that says Tel Aviv is the capital of Israel. Every physical map, atlas and globe I have acknowledges Jerusalem as Israel's capital, as does google maps, as does the Wikipedia article about Israel. The capital of Israel is Jerusalem. Either way, Trump recognizing that is certainly a pro-Israel move, which is my point.

Sure, but it is a pro-Israel act. Which is my point

Withdrawing from the JCPOA meant that all the sanctions were reimposed on Iran, extremely limiting their abilities to sponsor terrorism in the region. This is certainly good for Israel - which is my point.

Qatar is a close ally of Iran, and didn't normalize relations with Israel. Perhaps you mean the UAE or Bahrain And yes, you are right, they think that Israel is a partner against Iran. In what way lessens that the positive effects of the peace deal though? The Abraham-Accords that Trump arranged were certainly to Israel's benefit - which is my point.

I don't see how you could argue that Trump's policies weren''t good - let alone bad - for Israel.

F. Rubenstein: "Qatar is a close ally of Iran, and didn't normalize relations with Israel. Perhaps you mean the UAE or Bahrain And yes, you are right, they think that Israel is a partner against Iran. In what way lessens that the positive effects of the peace deal though? The Abraham-Accords that Trump arranged were certainly to Israel's benefit - which is my point."

You are correct, I did mean the United Arab Emirates.
Israel is a democracy. Trump doesn't understand democracy.
Trump doesn't understand Israel, doesn't understand diplomacy, and he doesn't understand the Abraham Accords.

 

[Dale]

I'm not buying Dr. Michael Oren at all. Everybody could see that Trump treated Israel fairly well. Nobody has to explain it. But with Biden, his support for Israel has to be explained. That's a problem.

I'm guessing that Dr. Oren just doesn't like Trump for some reason, like most America Jews. He was an American Jew until he renounced his citizenship.

Those who bless Israel will be blessed, according to the Bible. Although, it's probably too late for the US to get much blessing for anything. 9/11 was the last call to turn things around. Now it's too late.

In a nutty world, Israel is one of a few sane places. That's why I support it.

Does Trump support Israel in the current Israel-Hamas War?

In an interview with Israel Hayom, Trump says, “You have to finish up your war.”

Trump simply doesn’t have the patience for a long war, and this is going to be a long war.

After looking at some photos of Israeli bombs falling on Gaza, Trump says:

“I think Israel made a very big mistake.”

He sees bad publicity, and he’s right about that. At the same time, he fails to see that sometimes there is no alternative.

Israel Hayom is a Hebrew language newspaper in Israel, the most widely distributed paper in Israel. An English translation of the article appeared in the Jerusalem Post.


Story

Former US President Trump to Israel Hayom:​

'You have to finish up your war'​

Link
Donald Trump: I blame Joe Biden for October 7 attacks on Israel

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I don't see why you are so skeptical of that policy. In WWII, the US, Britain, Canada, Australia and the Free French, among others, formed an alliance to fight Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy and Imperial Japan. In other words, the democracies banded together to fight dictatorships and dictatorial regimes. Was that a bad idea?

I don't adhere to the idea WWII mythology of it being a war against evil which justified every action taken by the allies. The Allies were guilty of many war crimes and partnered with arguably an even worse Dictator in Stalin in order to beat Nazi Germany. WWII was not a principled war fought over liberalism and freedom. It was a foolish waste of life and the West need not have fought it or conducted itself the way it did. So you ask was WW2 and getting involved a bad Idea, yes it was.

Yes, they were also allied with the Soviet Union, on the theory that the enemy of your enemy is your friend. The alliance with the Soviet Union did not work out as well. For instance, the Soviet Union gave us very little help fighting Imperial Japan at the end of the war, although they could easily have done so.

And the Soviet Union was a friend how? A Godless Atheistic regime which hated everything the west stood for at the time? Quite frankly Roosevelt was pathetic in how he conducted himself with Stalin, basically giving him everything he wanted without expecting anything in return. The treatment of the Americans with regards to Britain, basically demanding all it's resources in order for Britain to receive Lendlease speaks volumes of what the war truly represented.

It used to be fashionable for many Americans to say, "We can't be the world's policeman."
Here's a reply: Can the world make it without a policeman?

Yes it can. America has caused several holocausts of deaths with it's wars for democracy. What gives America the God given right to dominate the globe from a Christian perspective? Can you tell me that?

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

Israel is a democracy. Trump doesn't understand democracy.
Trump doesn't understand Israel, doesn't understand diplomacy, and he doesn't understand the Abraham Accords.

Could you please elaborate on that? For someone who supposedly doesn't understand Israel, Trump did a lot of good things during his presidency that benefitted Israel. For someone who supposedly doesn't understand diplomacy, achieving something like the Abraham Accords - the first Israeli-Arab peace deal since 1994 - was a giant accomplishment. You may say that it wasn't Trump personally who negotiated it, but it happened under his administration, so I don't see how a similar thing couldn't happen in a future administration of his.
I have to say though, in the end I don't really care how much Trump understands the policies that come out of his presidency, if the policies are great. And his have been great with regards to Israel.

Especially if I had to choose between Trump and someone like Biden, who hasn't done a single thing for Israel during his presidency. Much of the opposite.

 

[mindlight]

I'm not an American, so I am not interested in the US' internal fightings over Trump vs Biden, but when I look at the policies these two people pursued during their presidencies it is pretty clear to me who is better for Israel:

Trump recognized Jerusalem as the united capital of the state of Israel.
Trump moved the US embassy to Jerusalem.
Trump cut the funding of Palestinian terrorist groups.
Trump withdrew from the JCPOA and put strict sanctions on Iran.
Trump achieved real peace between Israel and a number of Arab countries.

Biden renewed the funding of Palestinian terrorist groups.
Biden gave Iran access to more than $10 Billion.
Biden alienated Saudi Arabia, who were close to joining the Abraham Accords.
Biden has been constantly hindering Israel in the current war against Hamas, even going so far to threaten the suspension of arms sales if Israel keeps going.

There is a reason why Trump is popular in Israel, and Biden is not.

I do not like Trump and do not want him to win this year, but his pro-Israel credentials are clear. Netanyahu is not Israel and will leave power pretty shortly after he finishes with Hamas in Gaza. The Israeli people themselves will not tolerate another term and the perception is that he messed up in the preamble to the present troubles.

 

[hislegacy]

Uh huh

 

[Dale]

View attachment 344976

Uh huh

Trump Heights is in the Golan Heights. It is a planned development named by Benjamin Netanyahu in 2019. According to the only news stories I can find on it, no one lives there. The sign overlooks a wasteland.

 

[hislegacy]

Trump Heights is in the Golan Heights. It is a planned development named by Benjamin Netanyahu in 2019. According to the only news stories I can find on it, no one lives there. The sign overlooks a wasteland.

It is also a visible expression of their friendship

You see any other land in the name of an American President?

I’m not aware of the leader of a nation dedicating part of his country in the name of a man who hates him.

 

[Dale]

It is also a visible expression of their friendship

You see any other land in the name of an American President?

I’m not aware of the leader of a nation dedicating part of his country in the name of a man who hates him.

It was a move by Benjamin Netanyahu to curry favor with Donald Trump, who was the US President at the time, with several years left in his term.