The Rich Merchants in the True Structuring of the Revelation

[Truth7t7]

I’m not a preterist; I’m a historicist.

Do you believe Daniel's AOD in Matthew 24:15 or The Great Tribulation Matthew in 24:21 are future events unfulfilled?

 

[Truth7t7]

The papacy rose from the sea, representing the wicked/pagan kings of the fallen Western empire (Isaiah 57:20). The historical accounts confirm the papacy legitimized the kings by their acknowledgment the pope stood in place of God, fulfilling the little horn, which is also the beast from the sea.

I fully agree that the little horn is the beast of the sea, but he will be a future literal human man, of Hebrew/Jewish decent

This beast of the sea will be given power in the future for 42 months, not 2,000 years of successive Popes throughout history

However I believe the Pope will fulfill the future beast of the earth (False Prophet)

 

[Jerryhuerta]

I fully agree that the little horn is the beast of the sea, but he will be a future literal human man, of Hebrew/Jewish decent

This beast of the sea will be given power in the future for 42 months, not 2,000 years of successive Popes throughout history

However I believe the Pope will fulfill the future beast of the earth (False Prophet)

As to the Olivet Discourse, do you deny we come to “the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem… To the general assembly and church of the firstborn… and to God the Judge of all… And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant” (Hebrew 12:22-24)?

Only in denial of said text can someone make up stories of Christ returning to judge just the Jews in a rebuilt temple. Said text affirms Christ is the mediator of the New Covenant and of “the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem and general assembly of the Church of the firstborn.” Christ is the judge of the Church under the New Covenant. Judgment upon Old Covenant Jerusalem was concluded with the end of the Old Covenant.

As to Revelation 13, that’s historical. The pope seduced Justinian to uproot three horns preventing its rise: the Visigoths, Vandals, and Ostrogoths. The last one was dealt with in AD 538. One thousand two hundred sixty years later, in AD 1798, Napolean abducted the pope, confiscated his land, finished what the Protestants had started, and continued the march to secularize society to enrich the merchants.

My family and I seek “the spirits of just men made perfect,” in deed and in writing (Hebrews 12:23).

 

[Jerryhuerta]

Rome didn't exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood, Jerusalem did

Revelation 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

We need to get back to this and your errors. Again, Revelation is about Christ's mediation over the church, not ancient Jerusalem under the Old Covenant. We come to “the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem… To the general assembly and church of the firstborn… and to God the Judge of all… And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant” (Hebrew 12:22-24). The "great city" in Revelation illustrates the Church in a fallen condition during the era of the Laodicean church.

Revelation 18:24 is the only text that includes “prophets” without the definite article, which renders it one who receives the gift in this age, not “the prophets” in the OT.

The scripture identifies a "Future" Jerusalem, not a historical Jerusalem

Again, this is a gross error. Babylon is guilty of enriching the merchants of the earth.

For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. (Revelation 18:3)​

I've documented that this was fulfilled contemporaneously by apostate Protestantism when it held intercourse with the princes of the earth to secularize society, which enriched the merchants. You're obviously trying to sidestep this issue with hypotheticals in the future when the prophecy illustrates our modern state of affairs. We are dealing with the evils of these merchants and their corporations in today's society, and your doctrine is merely an attempt to gaslight the issue.

The entire world will worship this "Future" human man that the woman Jerusalem rides, the entire world will be controlled by this figure

I'm fully aware your reformed pretersist historical denies "Future" events I disagree

Revelation 13:8KJV
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

As I said previously, your unfamiliarity with eschatology is redolent. You are obviously bereft of the Historicists paradigm that makes proper sense of Daniel 2:34. The historical reality is that the ten toes or ten horns received their crowns when Rome fell. The papacy rose from the sea, representing the wicked/pagan kings of the fallen Western empire (Isaiah 57:20). The historical accounts confirm the papacy legitimized the kings by their acknowledgment the pope stood in the place of God, fulfilling the little horn, which is also the beast from the sea. The papacy gave the ten kings their crowns, three of which refused and were uprooted: the Visigoths, Vandals, and Ostrogoths.

The pope seduced Justinian to uproot three horns preventing its rise: the Visigoths, Vandals, and Ostrogoths. The last one was dealt with in AD 538. One thousand two hundred sixty years later, in AD 1798, Napolean abducted the pope, confiscated his land, finished what the Protestants had started, and continued the march to secularize society to enrich the merchants.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

Rome didn't exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood, Jerusalem did

Revelation 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

We need to get back to this and your errors. Again, Revelation is about Christ's mediation over the church, not ancient Jerusalem under the Old Covenant. We come to “the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem… To the general assembly and church of the firstborn… and to God the Judge of all… And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant” (Hebrew 12:22-24). The "great city" in Revelation illustrates the Church in a fallen condition during the era of the Laodicean church.

Revelation 18:24 is the only text that includes “prophets” without the definite article, which renders it one who receives the gift in this age, not “the prophets” in the OT.

The scripture identifies a "Future" Jerusalem, not a historical Jerusalem

Again, this is a gross error. Babylon is guilty of enriching the merchants of the earth.

For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. (Revelation 18:3)​

I've documented that this was fulfilled contemporaneously by apostate Protestantism when it held intercourse with the princes of the earth to secularize society, which enriched the merchants. You're obviously trying to sidestep this issue with hypotheticals in the future when the prophecy illustrates our modern state of affairs. We are dealing with the evils of these merchants and their corporations in today's society, and your doctrine is merely an attempt to gaslight the issue.

The entire world will worship this "Future" human man that the woman Jerusalem rides, the entire world will be controlled by this figure

I'm fully aware your reformed pretersist historical denies "Future" events I disagree

Revelation 13:8KJV
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

As I said previously, your unfamiliarity with eschatology is redolent. You are obviously bereft of the Historicists paradigm that makes proper sense of Daniel 2:34. The historical reality is that the ten toes or ten horns received their crowns when Rome fell. The papacy rose from the sea, representing the wicked/pagan kings of the fallen Western empire (Isaiah 57:20). The historical accounts confirm the papacy legitimized the kings by their acknowledgment the pope stood in the place of God, fulfilling the little horn, which is also the beast from the sea. The papacy gave the ten kings their crowns, three of which refused and were uprooted: the Visigoths, Vandals, and Ostrogoths.

The pope seduced Justinian to uproot three horns preventing its rise: the Visigoths, Vandals, and Ostrogoths. The last one was dealt with in AD 538. One thousand two hundred sixty years later, in AD 1798, Napolean abducted the pope, confiscated his land, finished what the Protestants had started, and continued the march to secularize society to enrich the merchants. It was in AD 1798 that the papacy received its deadly wound and will be revived again as the eighth king in Revelation 17:9-11.

 

[Douggg]

The historical reality is that the ten toes or ten horns received their crowns when Rome fell.

The ten horn kings receive their crowns in Revelation 13:1, when there are 42 months left in the 7 years, Revelation 13:5. The ten horns kings receive their crowns to rule with the beast king. It is all still future of us.


Revelation 17 - timestamp status - first century
seven heads - no crowns (end times completion)
ten horns - no crowns (end times completion)

Revelation 12 - timestamp status - end times, the 7 years before Jesus returns.
seven heads - crowns (seven kings completion)
ten horns - no crowns

Revelation 13 - timestamp status - end times, 42 months before Jesus returns
seven heads - no crowns. one head mortally wounded but healed - the beast king.
ten horns - crowns (to rule with the beast king).

 

[Jerryhuerta]

The ten horn kings receive their crowns in Revelation 13:1, when there are 42 months left in the 7 years, Revelation 13:5. The ten horns kings receive their crowns to rule with the beast king. It is all still future of us.


Revelation 17 - timestamp status - first century
seven heads - no crowns (end times completion)
ten horns - no crowns (end times completion)

Revelation 12 - timestamp status - end times, the 7 years before Jesus returns.
seven heads - crowns (seven kings completion)
ten horns - no crowns

Revelation 13 - timestamp status - end times, 42 months before Jesus returns
seven heads - no crowns. one head mortally wounded but healed - the beast king.
ten horns - crowns (to rule with the beast king).

You’re the first to try and run away from the scriptural and historical evidence that substantiates Historicism and their affirmation that prophetic intervals are often fulfilled in years for days, like the seventy weeks. Even futurists must concede the seventy weeks represent years for days.

And you were the first to run away from the scriptural and historical evidence that apostate Protestantism held intercourse with the princes of the earth to secularize society, which enriched the merchants. You're obviously trying to run away from this issue with hypotheticals in the future when the prophecy illustrates our modern state of affairs. We are dealing with the evils of these merchants today, and your doctrine is merely an attempt to gaslight the issue.

Run away from the historical evidence that the ten toes or ten horns received their crowns when Rome fell. The papacy rose from the sea, representing the wicked/pagan kings of the fallen Western empire (Isaiah 57:20). The historical accounts confirm the papacy legitimized the kings by their acknowledgment the pope stood in the place of God, fulfilling the little horn, which is also the beast from the sea. The papacy gave the ten kings their crowns, three of which refused and were uprooted: the Visigoths, Vandals, and Ostrogoths.

Run away from the historical evidence that the pope seduced Justinian to uproot three horns preventing its rise: the Visigoths, Vandals, and Ostrogoths. The last one was dealt with in AD 538. One thousand two hundred sixty years later, in AD 1798, Napolean abducted the pope, confiscated his land, finished what the Protestants had started, and continued the march to secularize society to enrich the merchants. It was in AD 1798 that the papacy received its deadly wound and will be revived again as the eighth king in Revelation 17:9-11.

Historicists run from nothing but deal with it head-on.

Keep coming back. I like exposing futurism; it's fun and keeps my thread alive.

 

[Douggg]

You’re the first to try and run away from the scriptural and historical evidence that substantiates Historicism and their affirmation that prophetic intervals are often fulfilled in years for days, like the seventy weeks.

The seventy weeks in Daniel 9 are weeks of years. The 70th week - i.e. 7 years - still remains to be fulfilled. And Revelation 12 and 13 are founded on that 7 years.

That the 70 weeks are weeks of years is validated that Jesus was cutoff, crucified after 69 weeks of years had ended. Historists can't deny that.

The 1260 days, the 42 months, the 3 /12 days, in Revelation are literal. The ten horn kings are end times - not historic.


Revelation 17 - timestamp status - first century
seven heads - no crowns (end times completion)
ten horns - no crowns (end times completion)

Revelation 12 - timestamp status - end times, the 7 years before Jesus returns.
seven heads - crowns (seven kings completion)
ten horns - no crowns

Revelation 13 - timestamp status - end times, 42 months before Jesus returns
seven heads - no crowns. one head mortally wounded but healed - the beast king.
ten horns - crowns (to rule with the beast king).

 

[Jerryhuerta]

The seventy weeks in Daniel 9 are weeks of years. The 70th week - i.e. 7 years - still remains to be fulfilled. And Revelation 12 and 13 are founded on that 7 years.

That the 70 weeks are weeks of years is validated that Jesus was cutoff, crucified after 69 weeks of years had ended. Historists can't deny that.

The 1260 days, the 42 months, the 3 /12 days, in Revelation are literal. The ten horn kings are end times - not historic.


Revelation 17 - timestamp status - first century
seven heads - no crowns (end times completion)
ten horns - no crowns (end times completion)

Revelation 12 - timestamp status - end times, the 7 years before Jesus returns.
seven heads - crowns (seven kings completion)
ten horns - no crowns

Revelation 13 - timestamp status - end times, 42 months before Jesus returns
seven heads - no crowns. one head mortally wounded but healed - the beast king.
ten horns - crowns (to rule with the beast king).

You’re the first to try and run away from the scriptural and historical evidence that substantiates Historicism and their affirmation that prophetic intervals are often fulfilled in years for days, like the seventy weeks. Even futurists must concede the seventy weeks represent years for days.

And you were the first to run away from the scriptural and historical evidence that apostate Protestantism held intercourse with the princes of the earth to secularize society, which enriched the merchants. You're obviously trying to run away from this issue with hypotheticals in the future when the prophecy illustrates our modern state of affairs. We are dealing with the evils of these merchants today, and your doctrine is merely an attempt to gaslight the issue.

Run away from the historical evidence that the ten toes or ten horns received their crowns when Rome fell. The papacy rose from the sea, representing the wicked/pagan kings of the fallen Western empire (Isaiah 57:20). The historical accounts confirm the papacy legitimized the kings by their acknowledgment the pope stood in the place of God, fulfilling the little horn, which is also the beast from the sea. The papacy gave the ten kings their crowns, three of which refused and were uprooted: the Visigoths, Vandals, and Ostrogoths.

Run away from the historical evidence that the pope seduced Justinian to uproot three horns preventing its rise: the Visigoths, Vandals, and Ostrogoths. The last one was dealt with in AD 538. One thousand two hundred sixty years later, in AD 1798, Napolean abducted the pope, confiscated his land, finished what the Protestants had started, and continued the march to secularize society to enrich the merchants. It was in AD 1798 that the papacy received its deadly wound and will be revived again as the eighth king in Revelation 17:9-11.

Historicists run from nothing but deal with it head-on.

Keep coming back. I like exposing futurism; it's fun and keeps my thread alive.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

The seventy weeks in Daniel 9 are weeks of years. The 70th week - i.e. 7 years - still remains to be fulfilled. And Revelation 12 and 13 are founded on that 7 years.

That the 70 weeks are weeks of years is validated that Jesus was cutoff, crucified after 69 weeks of years had ended. Historists can't deny that.

The 1260 days, the 42 months, the 3 /12 days, in Revelation are literal. The ten horn kings are end times - not historic.

Four hundred ninety years are determined, not 490 years plus 2000 years, just like the 1260 years, 42 months, in Revelation 13.

Run away from the historical evidence that the ten toes or ten horns received their crowns when Rome fell. The papacy rose from the sea, representing the wicked/pagan kings of the fallen Western empire (Isaiah 57:20). The historical accounts confirm the papacy legitimized the kings by their acknowledgment the pope stood in the place of God, fulfilling the little horn, which is also the beast from the sea. The papacy gave the ten kings their crowns, three of which refused and were uprooted: the Visigoths, Vandals, and Ostrogoths.

Run away from the historical evidence that the pope seduced Justinian to uproot three horns preventing its rise: the Visigoths, Vandals, and Ostrogoths. The last one was dealt with in AD 538. One thousand two hundred sixty years later, in AD 1798, Napolean abducted the pope, confiscated his land, finished what the Protestants had started, and continued the march to secularize society to enrich the merchants. It was in AD 1798 that the papacy received its deadly wound and will be revived again as the eighth king in Revelation 17:9-11.

 

[Douggg]

Run away from the historical evidence that the ten toes or ten horns received their crowns when Rome fell. The papacy rose from the sea, representing the wicked/pagan kings of the fallen Western empire (Isaiah 57:20). The historical accounts confirm the papacy legitimized the kings by their acknowledgment the pope stood in the place of God, fulfilling the little horn, which is also the beast from the sea. The papacy gave the ten kings their crowns, three of which refused and were uprooted: the Visigoths, Vandals, and Ostrogoths.

Run away from the historical evidence that the pope seduced Justinian to uproot three horns preventing its rise: the Visigoths, Vandals, and Ostrogoths. The last one was dealt with in AD 538. One thousand two hundred sixty years later, in AD 1798, Napolean abducted the pope, confiscated his land, finished what the Protestants had started, and continued the march to secularize society to enrich the merchants. It was in AD 1798 that the papacy received its deadly wound and will be revived again as the eighth king in Revelation 17:9-11.

Four hundred ninety years are determined, not 490 years plus 2000 years, just like the 1260 years, 42 months, in Revelation 13.

Run away from the historical evidence that the ten toes or ten horns received their crowns when Rome fell. The papacy rose from the sea, representing the wicked/pagan kings of the fallen Western empire (Isaiah 57:20). The historical accounts confirm the papacy legitimized the kings by their acknowledgment the pope stood in the place of God, fulfilling the little horn, which is also the beast from the sea. The papacy gave the ten kings their crowns, three of which refused and were uprooted: the Visigoths, Vandals, and Ostrogoths.

Run away from the historical evidence that the pope seduced Justinian to uproot three horns preventing its rise: the Visigoths, Vandals, and Ostrogoths. The last one was dealt with in AD 538. One thousand two hundred sixty years later, in AD 1798, Napolean abducted the pope, confiscated his land, finished what the Protestants had started, and continued the march to secularize society to enrich the merchants. It was in AD 1798 that the papacy received its deadly wound and will be revived again as the eighth king in Revelation 17:9-11.

Jerry, the 42 months in Revelation 13 end with Jesus's return. The events of Revelation 13 are still future. Revelation 13, none of it is historic.

 

[Truth7t7]

Four hundred ninety years are determined, not 490 years plus 2000 years, just like the 1260 years, 42 months, in Revelation 13.

Run away from the historical evidence that the ten toes or ten horns received their crowns when Rome fell. The papacy rose from the sea, representing the wicked/pagan kings of the fallen Western empire (Isaiah 57:20). The historical accounts confirm the papacy legitimized the kings by their acknowledgment the pope stood in the place of God, fulfilling the little horn, which is also the beast from the sea. The papacy gave the ten kings their crowns, three of which refused and were uprooted: the Visigoths, Vandals, and Ostrogoths.

Run away from the historical evidence that the pope seduced Justinian to uproot three horns preventing its rise: the Visigoths, Vandals, and Ostrogoths. The last one was dealt with in AD 538. One thousand two hundred sixty years later, in AD 1798, Napolean abducted the pope, confiscated his land, finished what the Protestants had started, and continued the march to secularize society to enrich the merchants. It was in AD 1798 that the papacy received its deadly wound and will be revived again as the eighth king in Revelation 17:9-11.

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained "Future"?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see (The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

Jerry, the 42 months in Revelation 13 end with Jesus's return. The events of Revelation 13 are still future. Revelation 13, none of it is historic.

Douglas, in prophecy days, are often used to represent years, and unlike 7t7, you know that. It’s historically confirmed the papacy legitimized the kings that received their crowns after the fall of Rome by their acknowledgment the pope stood in place of God for one thousand two hundred and sixty years, fulfilling the little horn, which is also the beast from the sea. You can close your eyes and your ears all you want. Still, it doesn’t dismiss the scriptural and historical evidence that Historicism has the proper hermeneutics to interpret Revelation and prophecy in general. You’re simply not going to surmount that the horns or toes received their crowns when Rome fell, which destroys your futurist's misrepresentations.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained "Future"?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see (The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Your assertions epitomize being tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine (Ephesian 4:14). All the reformers acknowledged the seventy weeks represented 490 years and prophesied the first advent. You have a private interpretation making Daniel 9:24-27 represent the second advent. But you are a greater theologian than Jamieson, Fausset, Brown, Ellicott, Poole, and Gill. Here’s what a Jews for Jesus website states:

But here Gabriel was using a play upon words in the Hebrew text, pointing out that insofar as Messiah’s kingdom was concerned, it was not “70 years,” but “70 sevens of years,” a total of 490 years (70 times seven). End quote​

 

[David Kent]

The sixth king - the one is, at the time of John, was Nero, last of the historic Julio-Claudians.

The five fallen kings are:
1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius.


king 7, the one yet to come, will be the little horn person. Who will also be of that Julio-Claudian bloodline.

The little horn person evolves as....

The little horn (leader of the EU ten) > becomes the prince who shall come > becomes the Antichrist > becomes the revealed man of sin>

becomes the beast (dictator of the EU)

You start halfway through Roman history. If you start at the time when Rome succeeded the Greeks you should start from Augustus .

I would give them as
1 kings
2 1st republic
3 2nd republic
4 triumvirate
5 dictators
All fallen

6 Emperors
Ruling at the time

7 Christian Emperors
To come for a short time

The beast that was and is not and yet is
The eighth is the papacy. A dynasty just as the others, who will rule till the end.

 

[David Kent]

Tell us, how does a contemporary leader of the EU come before the Claudius? Revelation 17:9-10 says the eighth head “was” before the sixth, which you say is Claudius. Again, how does the future head of the EU come before the emperor Claudius of ancient times?

? Where does is say that it comes before the 6th. ?
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. The seventh was the Christian Emperors.the beast that was, the 8th, is of the seven, not of the five, read ot all please.

And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

You start halfway through Roman history. If you start at the time when Rome succeeded the Greeks you should start from Augustus .

I would give them as
1 kings
2 1st republic
3 2nd republic
4 triumvirate
5 dictators
All fallen

6 Emperors
Ruling at the time

7 Christian Emperors
To come for a short time

The beast that was and is not and yet is
The eighth is the papacy. A dynasty just as the others, who will rule till the end.

Revelation 17:9-11 states that the scarlet beast is also the eighth king and “was” before the sixth. Historicists hold the little horn and the eighth king as the papacy. How is it that the papacy “was” before Nero? Again, are you a historicist? You appear more like a preterist than a historicist.

 

[David Kent]

Observed Assumption 0: Reading this paper with a Futurist or Preterist logical premise, will result in an incorrect understanding of the concepts.
Observed Assumption 1: The heads of the beast are Roman Emperors. (This stands out because they're heads of blasphemy, so possibly religious or at least ideological in nature)
Observed Assumption 2: The beast seems to come out of the earth in this theology(, revelation and daniel depicts the beasts coming out of the sea. )
Observed Assumption 3: The kings of the earth are seduced by "the harlot" and drunk on her doctrines, the wine is interpreted to be the "wine."
Observed Assumption 4: The church in various ages is babylon being judged.
Observed Assumption 5: The "laodicean church age," the market driven economy, and the fornication of the harlot riding the beast are examined as the same event.
Observed Assumption 6: The gods and goddesses of the Roman empire were not devils. This ignores 1 Corinthians 10:20 and the theme of not eating food offered to idols in New Testament writings during the time of Rome.
Observed Assumption 7: The enrichment of the merchants is not a future phenomenon. The OP is speaking of the present day.
Observed Observation 8: The writing says that it cannot be Rome that is being spoken of because the class of merchants diminished under feudalism, but modern post reformation groups secularized society which enriched the merchants. This seems to be the centre of the argument that it is not a past or future thing, but "the apocalypse is now."

The rest appears to be proving the observed assumptions through the philosophers and economics around the time of reformation: Stating the end goal of protestantism was to secularize society, promote individualism, and enrich commerce and industry.

No idea what you are speaking of here.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

? Where does is say that it comes before the 6th. ?
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. The seventh was the Christian Emperors.the beast that was, the 8th, is of the seven, not of the five, read ot all please.

And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

It says the sixth "is" and the eighth "was." Translation, the eighth "was" before the sixth. That's why it takes wisdom to understand.

 

[David Kent]

Revelation 17:9-11 states that the scarlet beast is also the eighth king and “was” before the sixth. Historicists hold the little horn and the eighth king as the papacy. How is it that the papacy “was” before Nero? Again, are you a historicist? You appear more like a preterist than a historicist.

I am a historicist. But Revelation 17: 11 says the 8th is of the 7, not the 5.