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The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

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yeshuaslavejeff

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I won’t speak for anyone but myself; I repented a long time ago. Not to BE forgiven, but to accept the forgiveness that was paid for, by Jesus, 2,000 years ago. My prayer for you is that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened that you have His heart for what Jesus did for all. The gospel isn’t accept him and he’ll die for your forgiveness. The gospel is that He DiD die for your forgiveness. Not believing doesn’t change God’s seeing the debt as paid. I once was blind but now I SEE, you apparently just ‘squint’.
That's true- you only speak for yourself,
and
not for Ekklesia who believe and follow Jesus
and
not for the lost who don't repent and are cast into the lake of fire as Jesus says.
 
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FineLinen

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I won’t speak for anyone but myself; I repented a long time ago. Not to BE forgiven, but to accept the forgiveness that was paid for, by Jesus, 2,000 years ago. My prayer for you is that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened that you have His heart for what Jesus did for all. The gospel isn’t accept him and he’ll die for your forgiveness. The gospel is that He DiD die for your forgiveness. Not believing doesn’t change God’s seeing the debt as paid. I once was blind but now I SEE, you apparently just ‘squint’.

Dear Hillsage: Mankind, (especially the religion one's) despise the fact they cannot do something to help God along! There surely is something we can do for His acceptance is the proclamation, in various degrees of stupidity.

My brother in arms, over 60 years ago, the Saviour of all mankind reached down out of His great love for me, a hopeless lost sinner and said "follow Me!" You have never seen a young person run so fast!

As the years have passed, keeping up with Him has exceeded all futile attempts to follow! There is a powerful reason "we live by the faith of the Son of God".
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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This is so true.

The Shepherd of the sheep does not run.
Neither do the sheep walking with Him daily.

Sorry you lost Him along the way, found it "futile" to follow Jesus? - who did you say you were trying to follow? (They don't teach the Bible, according to your own words, your own posts, btw.)

As the years have passed, keeping up with Him has exceeded all futile attempts to follow!
 
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ClementofA

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Much seems to be assumed by a Universalist concerning the value, or worth, or dignity of the person, apparently in and of himself, as made in the image of God.

Universalism seems to me to ignore that the whole focus of that mindset is on the person, and not on God. We are sinners, which by the holiness of God means that only by our relationship to God are we of any [mathematical] absolute value --those whom God has deemed worthy by the blood of Christ are given meaning, personhood, not in and of themselves, but as members of Christ, which by no means cancels out individuality and God's respect concerning that (no--quite the opposite). Those who are unforgiven walking dead in this life, after this life remain dead, and their only significance resides in their gall of rebellion. God recognizes them as such. That the lake of fire purifies them to ultimately be saved seems to me to only be a logical construct to resolve the misuse of certain verses and the idea of God being all-good.

My friends, I cannot see how this is justice --God does not play around with his Glory. He will not be appeased, except by the purity of Christ imputed. Sin against God is infinite sin, and the payment will never be completed. (This is a huge part of my conviction that Christ is himself God, in that he returned from that payment, being infinite in himself)

I see no mention in Scripture of a two-part redemption.


This is my response to Calvinists/Reformed types:

Calvinist #1 said:
God's nature is far more than just love:

Do you suppose His nature of love will bow down, submit to & worship some other sadistic nature that delights to torture billions of beings for all the endless ages of eternity?

If you think the Bible & the early church & the modern church are all wrong, you will have to prove it.

If you think Love Omnipotent's love is finite & expires like a carton of milk so He can torture most of His creatures called human beings in fire with immortal worms eating them for all endless trillions X trillions X trillions of eons, forever and ever and ever, you will have to prove it.

Calvinist #2 said:
God is not obligated to save any law breaker.

God's nature is love. This obligated Him to send His Son to die for the world & shed His blood for all (Jn. 3:16; 1 Jn.2:2, etc). So He is the Lamb Who takes away the sin of the world (Jn.1:29).

Calvinist #2 said:
This is why it is amazing grace if He chooses to save even one.

It is amazing grace because none deserve it, His love demonstrated for all on the cross is amazing, and all will be saved by His grace (Rom.5:18-19, 1 Cor.15:22-28, etc).

Calvinist #2 said:
Yet God has chosen many.
You call God's Sovereign choice lucky. I call it an amazing and undeserved act of grace by God.

It's lucky if, in Calvinism, you're one of the lucky ones He chose for salvation. If not, then what, He chose you to fry you alive forever? Which is contrary to His nature of love.

Calvinist #2 said:
You can rail against God and curse Him for His Sovereign choice which does not include all humanity. He was not and is not obligated to save anyone.

His obligation is threefold: (1) His nature of love obligates Him. (2) His word affirming universalism in the Scriptures obligates Him (He cannot lie). (3) Christ's sacrifice & blood were for all people, not just a lucky few who won the lottery.

Calvinist #2 said:
The vast number of verses extolling God's choice, God's election and God's predestination make your argument illegitimate and false.

There is no Scripture that says "the elect are few & others will never be saved". Quite the contrary, as i've shown above & in many posts.

Calvinist #2 said:
Your god hates justice and thus has no love.

Your loving God does what? Tortures billions for all eternity? Does His love for the unsaved expire at the time of their death like a carton of milk? If He doesn't save all is it because He can't or doesn't want to?

Speaking of justice, this sounds like just payback, not endless annihilation or tortures:

Rev.18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/unique_proof_for_universalism.html
 
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Hillsage

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That's true- you only speak for yourself,
and
not for Ekklesia who believe and follow Jesus
and
not for the lost who don't repent and are cast into the lake of fire as Jesus says.
The fact that you apparently think YOU DO speak for the Ekklesia just might be thinking more highly of yourself than one ought, too. But on this thread, right now, it is the few who thinks our Lord was a bad shepherd. Only able to find least and lose the most. Apparently you think God 'squints' too. We don't, we believe He's seen the end from the beginning, of HIS PLAN OF THE AGES. And by His grace you are in it too.
 
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Hillsage

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Dear Hillsage: Mankind, (especially the religion one's) despise the fact they cannot do something to help God along! There surely is something we can do for His acceptance is the proclamation, in various degrees of stupidity.

My brother in arms, over 60 years ago, the Saviour of all mankind reached down out of His great love for me, a hopeless lost sinner and said "follow Me!" You have never seen a young person run so fast!

As the years have passed, keeping up with Him has exceeded all futile attempts to follow! There is a powerful reason "we live by the faith of the Son of God".
I know what you mean, I too did my share of running in my flesh/strength, all the while thinking I was 'God's man' of the hour too.
 
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FineLinen

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I know what you mean, I too did my share of running in my flesh/strength, all the while thinking I was 'God's man' of the hour too.

Dear Hillsage:

Is it not strange the long seasons that can elapse on the back-side of the desert? Year by year falls into the great abyss, and at the juncture where we can no longer speak, and the great struggle to do the will of God vanishes into weakness and death, the Bush appears pulsating with Deity. It is there at the asamuth of death and weakness the Living One speaks.

"Take off your shoes from off your feet"

Holy ground! The place where dust and Divinity meet! It is there in absolute weakness and inability, the Lord manifests Himself as the God who raises the dead. The road into the Tree of Life is by way of the flaming swords swirling in every direction. Those who reach for the Tree will suffer the loss of the hand, the fingers, the grasp of all they are! And as the process of the swirling swords rage upon these ones, great loss is inflicted, for nothing, no one, comes to the other side the same as it enters..NOTHING!...NOTHING!...NOTHING!

The great stages of the Living One's glory must be in degrees of doxa. We are changed from one degree of glory to another and another! It requires a thought beginning in the mind of the caterpillar that ultimately leads to the building of a cocoon from which caterpillars become butterflies, and dust moves from the road of life into the Divine One, described as "the Living", the "I am", not the I was, the I AM.

It is this Heavenly Road that grasps us, the Heavenly One, the Source leading to the Road, the sustaining Guide of the Road, and the Goal of the Road. All things lead to Him, through Him and for Him! And by Him all things consist. It has taken me over 70 years to go a journey that could be accomplished in 11 days, but dust and Divinity must meet; the goal is not all the story, the path is of equal value in the I AM! Each of us are on different stages of our Father's drawing hand, some so wrapped up in themselves they cannot see the bush that is aflame and is not devoured. It is just a common bush for many, but

"Earth's crammed with heaven, and every common bush afire with God; and only he who sees takes off his shoes. -Eliz. Barrett Browning-
 
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Hillsage

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Dear Hillsage:

Is it not strange the long seasons that can elapse on the back-side of the desert? Year by year falls into the great abyss, and at the juncture where we can no longer speak, and the great struggle to do the will of God vanishes into weakness and death, the Bush appears pulsating with Deity. It is there at the asamuth of death and weakness the Living One speaks.

"Take off your shoes from off your feet"

Holy ground! The place where dust and Divinity meet! It is there in absolute weakness and inability, the Lord manifests Himself as the God who raises the dead. The road into the Tree of Life is by way of the flaming swords swirling in every direction. Those who reach for the Tree will suffer the loss of the hand, the fingers, the grasp of all they are! And as the process of the swirling swords rage upon these ones, great loss is inflicted, for nothing, no one, comes to the other side the same as it enters..NOTHING!...NOTHING!...NOTHING!

The great stages of the Living One's glory must be in degrees of doxa. We are changed from one degree of glory to another and another! It requires a thought beginning in the mind of the caterpillar that ultimately leads to the building of a cocoon from which caterpillars become butterflies, and dust moves from the road of life into the Divine One, described as "the Living", the "I am", not the I was, the I AM.

It is this Heavenly Road that grasps us, the Heavenly One, the Source leading to the Road, the sustaining Guide of the Road, and the Goal of the Road. All things lead to Him, through Him and for Him! And by Him all things consist. It has taken me over 70 years to go a journey that could be accomplished in 11 days, but dust and Divinity must meet; the goal is not all the story, the path is of equal value in the I AM! Each of us are on different stages of our Father's drawing hand, some so wrapped up in themselves they cannot see the bush that is aflame and is not devoured. It is just a common bush for many, but

"Earth's crammed with heaven, and every common bush afire with God; and only he who sees takes off his shoes. -Eliz. Barrett Browning-
What can I say, that you have not just testified to. There is probably a reason why scripture says to appoint elders and not 'youngers'. Even those who are much older when coming to the Lord simply bring an understanding which transfers laterally much quicker into spiritual wisdom it seems.
 
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FineLinen

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What can I say, that you have not just testified to. There is probably a reason why scripture says to appoint elders and not 'youngers'. Even those who are much older when coming to the Lord simply bring an understanding which transfers laterally much quicker into spiritual wisdom it seems.

Dear brother: Many moons ago, my dear wife & I had the unique privilege to sit in the presence of a man of apostolic demeanour. For one entire week he ministered on one single verse of Scripture for over 1 hr. per night. Do you know how he ended these words?

"Let's just leave it there for now."

That, my friend, is the God we are linked to in Reconciliation!

"So death, this huge abyss separating us from God, dominated the landscape from Adam to Moses. Even those who didn't sin precisely as Adam did by disobeying a specific command of God still had to experience this termination of life, this separation from God. But Adam, who got us into this, also points ahead to the One who will get us out of it. Yet the rescuing gift is not exactly parallel to the death-dealing sin. If one man's sin put crowds of people at the dead-end abyss of separation from God, just think what God's gift poured through one man, Jesus Christ, will do!"
 
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FineLinen

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Dear J.R.: The God of Glory is the beginning & the ending of the all; not the most, not some: the all, the ta panta!

I am sure that will never satisfy you but so be it! The koine has no room for nearly all, mostly all, might be all in ta panta. Our God is the ta panta of the all!

Dear J.R.: Your bonus answer=

"Love never gives up. Love cares more for others than for self. Love doesn't want what it doesn't have. Love doesn't strut, Doesn't have a swelled head, Doesn't force itself on others, Isn't always "me first," Doesn't fly off the handle, Doesn't keep score of the sins of others, Doesn't revel when others grovel, Takes pleasure in the flowering of truth,

Puts up with anything, Trusts God always, Always looks for the best, Never looks back, But keeps going to the end.

Love never dies. Inspired speech will be over some day; praying in tongues will end; understanding will reach its limit.

We know only a portion of the truth, and what we say about God is always incomplete. But when the Complete arrives, our incompletes will be canceled.

When I was an infant at my mother's breast, I gurgled and cooed like any infant. When I grew up, I left those infant ways for good.

We don't yet see things clearly. We're squinting in a fog, peering through a mist. But it won't be long before the weather clears and the sun shines bright! We'll see it all then, see it all as clearly as God sees us, knowing him directly just as he knows us!

But for right now, until that completeness, we have three things to do to lead us toward that consummation: Trust steadily in God, hope unswervingly, love extravagantly. And the best of the three is love."
 
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FineLinen

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By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the...

Ex= The Source

Di= The Agent

Eiv= The Goal


The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

Romans 11:36=

ta pavnte/ ta panta, "in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming."

It is not in the limited sense of "nearly all", "pavnte" minus "ta

The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

The prefix "re" means back again, again, anew--and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;.... down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis
 
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FineLinen

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Greetings to you who have looked in on us in this wee link. Do you know what being "made righteous" entails?

"Salvation is not getting into a good place, but into a good state. It is not being where you cannot sin, but it is being so you will not sin. Lock a man up in jail and he cannot steal, for there is nothing there to steal. He is where he cannot sin the sin of stealing. God does not propose to save us from sin by locking us up in heaven."

Make a man thoroughly honest and he will not steal, no matter how much there may be to steal. He is saved from the disposition to steal. Salvation, therefore, is such a state of moral perfection as delivers us from all wish or desire to sin. God proposes to save us by so educating our minds and hearts that we will not choose to sin. To the degree, therefore, that we obtain this moral education we are saved, and we are saved to no greater degree.
 
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FineLinen

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Quotes by Clarence Jordon=

"The measure of a Christian is not in the height of his grasp but in the depth of his love”

“Faith is not belief in spite of evidence but a life in scorn of the consequences.”

“God is not a celestial prison warden jangling the keys on a bunch of lifers--he's a shepherd seeking for sheep, a woman searching for coins, a father waiting for his son.”

“Even though people about us choose the path of hate and violence and warfare and greed and prejudice, we who are Christ's body must throw off these poisons and let love permeate and cleanse every tissue and cell. Nor are we to allow ourselves to become easily discouraged when love is not always obviously successful or pleasant. Love never quits, even when an enemy has hit you on the right cheek and you have turned the other, and he's also hit that.”

“Fear is the polio of the soul which prevents our walking by faith.”
 
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FineLinen

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The point of “salvation” is not going to heaven, it is being a part of the kingdom of God ON EARTH while you live in your earthly body.

His Plan from start to finish

"You filled your lungs with polluted unbelief, and then exhaled disobedience.

We all did it, all of us doing what we felt like doing, when we felt like doing it, all of us in the same boat. It's a wonder God didn't lose his temper and do away with the whole lot of us.

Instead, immense in mercy and with an incredible love, he embraced us. He took our sin-dead lives and made us alive in Christ.

He did all this on his own, with no help from us!

Then he picked us up and set us down in highest heaven in company with Jesus, our Messiah.

Now God has us where he wants us, with all the time in this world and the next to shower grace and kindness upon us in Christ Jesus.

Saving is all his idea, and all his work.

All we do is trust him enough to let him do it.

It's God's gift from start to finish!

We don't play the major role. If we did, we'd probably go around bragging that we'd done the whole thing!

No, we neither make nor save ourselves.

God does both the making and saving. He creates each of us by Christ Jesus to join him in the work he does, the good work he has gotten ready for us to do, work we had better be doing."
 
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"I greet you with the grace and peace poured into our lives by God our Father and our Master, Jesus Christ. The God of Glory.

How blessed is God! And what a blessing he is! He's the Father of our Master, Jesus Christ, and takes us to the high places of blessing in him.

Long before he laid down earth's foundations, he had us in mind, had settled on us as the focus of his love, to be made whole and holy by his love.

Long, long ago he decided to adopt us into his family through Jesus Christ. (What pleasure he took in planning this!)

He wanted us to enter into the celebration of his lavish gift-giving by the hand of his beloved Son.

Because of the sacrifice of the Messiah, his blood poured out on the altar of the Cross, we're a free people - free of penalties and punishments chalked up by all our misdeeds.

And not just barely free, either. Abundantly free!

He thought of everything, provided for everything we could possibly need, letting us in on the plans he took such delight in making.

He set it all out before us in Christ, a long-range plan in which everything would be brought together and summed up in him, everything in deepest heaven, everything on planet earth.

It's in Christ that we find out who we are and what we are living for" -The Message-
 
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FineLinen

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"Now that we have actually received this amazing friendship with God, we are no longer content to simply say it in plodding prose.

We sing and shout our praises to God through Jesus, the Messiah!

You know the story of how Adam landed us in the dilemma we're in - first sin, then death, and no one exempt from either sin or death.

That sin disturbed relations with God in everything and everyone, but the extent of the disturbance was not clear until God spelled it out in detail to Moses.

So death, this huge abyss separating us from God, dominated the landscape from Adam to Moses.

Even those who didn't sin precisely as Adam did by disobeying a specific command of God still had to experience this termination of life, this separation from God.

But Adam, who got us into this, also points ahead to the One who will get us out of it.

Yet the rescuing gift is not exactly parallel to the death-dealing sin.


If one man's sin put crowds of people at the dead-end abyss of separation from God, just think what God's gift poured through one man, Jesus Christ, will do!

There's no comparison between that death-dealing sin and this generous, life-giving gift.

The verdict on that one sin was the death sentence; the verdict on the many sins that followed was this wonderful life sentence.

If death got the upper hand through one man's wrongdoing, can you imagine the breathtaking recovery life makes, sovereign life, in those who grasp with both hands this wildly extravagant life-gift, this grand setting-everything-right, that the one man Jesus Christ provides?

Here it is in a nutshell: Just as one person did it wrong and got us in all this trouble with sin and death, another person did it right and got us out of it. But more than just getting us out of trouble, he got us into life!

One man said no to God and put many people in the wrong; one man said yes to God and put many in the right." -The Message-
 
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FineLinen

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The Scripture=

https://www.biblestudytools.com/romans/9-22-compare.html

The Wrath Of God

The question=


What does the koine katartízō from katá means?

The Answer=

To render i.e to fit, sound, complete.

To mend (what has been broken or rent) to repair.

To repair what has been broken or rent.

To complete.

To fit out, equip, put in order, arrange, adjust.

To fit or frame for one's self.

To prepare for one's self.

To strengthen, perfect, complete, make one what he ought to be.

To make one what he aught to be

Could it be possible the hilasmos of the holos will actually make the broken wrecks of Adam1 what they aught to be?

Are our broadest hopes broad enough? Shall there be a nook or abyss, in all the universe of God, finally unlightened by the Cross? Shall there be a sin, or sorrow, or pain unhealed? Is the very universe, is creation in all its extent, a field wide enough for the Son of God?
 
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FineLinen

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Romans 5=

"The Spirit of life in Christ, like a strong wind, has magnificently cleared the air, freeing you from a fated lifetime of brutal tyranny at the hands of sin and death.


God went for the jugular when he sent his own Son. He didn't deal with the problem as something remote and unimportant. In his Son, Jesus, he personally took on the human condition, entered the disordered mess of struggling humanity in order to set it right once and for all.

The law code, weakened as it always was by fractured human nature, could never have done that.

And now what the law code asked for but we couldn't deliver is accomplished as we, instead of redoubling our own efforts, simply embrace what the Spirit is doing in us.

Those who think they can do it on their own end up obsessed with measuring their own moral muscle but never get around to exercising it in real life. Those who trust God's action in them find that God's Spirit is in them - living and breathing God!

Obsession with self in these matters is a dead end; attention to God leads us out into the open, into a spacious, free life.

Focusing on the self is the opposite of focusing on God. Anyone completely absorbed in self ignores God, ends up thinking more about self than God. That person ignores who God is and what he is doing.

And God isn't pleased at being ignored.

But if God himself has taken up residence in your life, you can hardly be thinking more of yourself than of him. Anyone, of course, who has not welcomed this invisible but clearly present God, the Spirit of Christ, won't know what we're talking about.

But for you who welcome him, in whom he dwells - even though you still experience all the limitations of sin - you yourself experience life on God's terms.

It stands to reason, doesn't it, that if the alive-and-present God who raised Jesus from the dead moves into your life, he'll do the same thing in you that he did in Jesus, bringing you alive to himself?

When God lives and breathes in you (and he does, as surely as he did in Jesus), you are delivered from that dead life. With his Spirit living in you, your body will be as alive as Christ's!

So don't you see that we don't owe this old do-it-yourself life one red cent.

There's nothing in it for us, nothing at all. The best thing to do is give it a decent burial and get on with your new life.

God's Spirit beckons. There are things to do and places to go!

This resurrection life you received from God is not a timid, grave-tending life. It's adventurously expectant, greeting God with a childlike "What's next, Papa?"

God's Spirit touches our spirits and confirms who we really are. We know who he is, and we know who we are: Father and children.

And we know we are going to get what's coming to us - an unbelievable inheritance! We go through exactly what Christ goes through. If we go through the hard times with him, then we're certainly going to go through the good times with him!

That's why I don't think there's any comparison between the present hard times and the coming good times.

The created world itself can hardly wait for what's coming next.

Everything in creation is being more or less held back. God reins it in until both creation and all the creatures are ready and can be released at the same moment into the glorious times ahead.

Meanwhile, the joyful anticipation deepens.

All around us we observe a pregnant creation. The difficult times of pain throughout the world are simply birth pangs. But it's not only around us; it's within us. The Spirit of God is arousing us within. We're also feeling the birth pangs.

These sterile and barren bodies of ours are yearning for full deliverance.

That is why waiting does not diminish us, any more than waiting diminishes a pregnant mother. We are enlarged in the waiting. We, of course, don't see what is enlarging us. But the longer we wait, the larger we become, and the more joyful our expectancy.

Meanwhile, the moment we get tired in the waiting, God's Spirit is right alongside helping us along. If we don't know how or what to pray, it doesn't matter. He does our praying in and for us, making prayer out of our wordless sighs, our aching groans.

He knows us far better than we know ourselves, knows our pregnant condition, and keeps us present before God. That's why we can be so sure that every detail in our lives of love for God is worked into something good.

God knew what he was doing from the very beginning. He decided from the outset to shape the lives of those who love him along the same lines as the life of his Son. The Son stands first in the line of humanity he restored.

We see the original and intended shape of our lives there in him. After God made that decision of what his children should be like, he followed it up by calling people by name. After he called them by name, he set them on a solid basis with himself. And then, after getting them established, he stayed with them to the end, gloriously completing what he had begun.

So, what do you think? With God on our side like this, how can we lose?

If God didn't hesitate to put everything on the line for us, embracing our condition and exposing himself to the worst by sending his own Son, is there anything else he wouldn't gladly and freely do for us?

And who would dare tangle with God by messing with one of God's chosen? 34 Who would dare even to point a finger? The One who died for us - who was raised to life for us! - is in the presence of God at this very moment sticking up for us.

Do you think anyone is going to be able to drive a wedge between us and Christ's love for us?

There is no way! Not trouble, not hard times, not hatred, not hunger, not homelessness, not bullying threats, not backstabbing, not even the worst sins listed in Scripture: They kill us in cold blood because they hate you. We're sitting ducks; they pick us off one by one.

None of this fazes us because Jesus loves us. I'm absolutely convinced that nothing - nothing living or dead, angelic or demonic, today or tomorrow, high or low, thinkable or unthinkable - absolutely nothing can get between us and God's love because of the way that Jesus our Master has embraced us.
 
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