The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

[FineLinen]

ClementofA has posted=

If God is NOT going to save all mankind no matter what, why is there not one single verse where God, Himself or Jesus Himself clearly states that all mankind will NOT be saved?

In fact, why aren't there dozens of verses - CLEARLY - stating, in unambiguous terms, that some will NEVER be saved? If such a monstrous, horrific thing were true, you'd think Love Omnipotent Crucified would have warned us - clearly - not only once, but dozens of times. What else would be more important in all the Scriptures. Yet - nowhere - NOT ONCE - can such be found. Therefore, the teaching of endless tortures is clearly false.

"Never" (Mt.7:23, etc)...this word appears to occur 16 times in the NT & it seems that it never means anything except "never". It is used of "love never fails" (1 Cor.13:8). It also occurs in Mt.7:23 where Jesus says "I never knew you; depart you from Me, those working lawlessness." Which is such an incredibly lame remark, if Love Omnipotent believed in endless torments. If He believed that such an unspeakably horrific final destiny awaits the wicked, including those He was referring to in Mt.7:23, why didn't He make it clear by telling them that they would "never" be saved and/or He would "never" know them? Would that not have been clear & unambiguous, unlike the words He spoke, & unlike the ambiguous aion & aionios, which often refer to finite duration in ancient Koine Greek? OTOH consider re the use of the word "never":

"Philo saith, “The punishment of the wicked person is, ζην αποθανοντα αει, to live for ever dying, and to be for ever in pains, and griefs, and calamities that never cease..." http://biblehub.com/commentaries/benson/mark/9.htm

If Jesus wished to express endless punishment, then He would have used expressions such as "endless", "no end" & "never be saved" as per:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/chri...scripture-expresses-endless-duration-not.html

Jesus didn't use the best words & expressions to describe endlessness in regards to punishment, because He didn't believe in endless punishment.

Examples of aionios as a finite duration in Koine Greek:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/2931562-does-aionios-always-mean-eternal-ancient.html

"The simplest way to know if someone is preaching the gospel of grace is to evaluate whether the teaching glorifies our Lord Jesus."

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/unique_proof_for_universalism.html

 

[Hillsage]

1. We are saved.

2. We are being saved.

3. We will be saved.

Actually the koine is "be-being".

Does anyone wonder why we love Him very much?

"The story has been told of a beautiful incident that occurred many years ago in the North of England. A young Salvation Army girl, only recently saved, was overflowing with the joy of the Lord and was eager to share her salvation with all others. Walking along the street of a little Durham city, she saw a tall, gray-haired man coming toward her and, stranger though he was, she stopped him and said, "Pardon me, sir, but are you saved?" The tall stranger leaned over toward her and answered, with a quizzical smile playing on his kindly face: "My dear,do you mean ESOTHEN, or SOZOMENOS, or SOTHESOMAI?" The Salvation Army girl was bewildered - it was "all Greek" to her! She did not know that she had stopped bishop Westcott, one of the greatest of Greek scholars and an editor of the famous Westcott and Hort edition of the Greek New Testament. He had asked her, using three different tenses of the Greek verb: "Do you mean, I was saved, or do you mean, I am being saved, or do you mean, I shall be saved?" And then bishop Westcott, who was indeed saved and knew that he was saved, lovingly explained a little of the three tenses of the gospel to the young girl, and showed her something of the riches of her past salvation, her ongoing salvation, and her future salvation, from spirit to soul to body; and before they separated that earnest young girl knew more about the gospel and her Saviour than she had ever known before, and went away rejoicing that she had asked this tall stranger whether he was saved."

 

[ClementofA]

"That any should suffer forever, lingering on in hopeless despair, and rolling amidst infinite torments without the possibility of alleviation and without end; that since God can save men and will save a part, he has not proposed to save all-these are real, not imaginary, difficulties. . . . My whole soul pants for light and relief on these questions. But I get neither; and in the distress and anguish of my own spirit, I confess that I see no light whatever. I see not one ray to disclose to me why sin came into the world; why the earth is strewn with the dying and the dead; and why man must suffer to all eternity. I have never seen a particle of light thrown on these subjects, that has given a moment's ease to my tortured mind . . . I confess, when I look on a world of sinners and sufferers- upon death-beds and grave-yards- upon the world of woe filled with hosts to suffer for ever: when I see my friends, my family, my people, my fellow citizens, when I look upon a whole race, all involved in this sin and danger- and when I see the great mass of them wholly unconcerned, and when I feel that God only can save them, and yet he does not do so, I am struck dumb. It is all dark, dark, dark to my soul, and I cannot disguise it." -- Albert Barnes

Practical Sermons Designed for Vacant Congregations and Families
By Albert Barnes [p.123ff]
https://books.google.ca/books?id=AN...ver, lingering on in hopeless despair&f=false

 

[FineLinen]

"That any should suffer forever, lingering on in hopeless despair, and rolling amidst infinite torments without the possibility of alleviation and without end; that since God can save men and will save a part, he has not proposed to save all-these are real, not imaginary, difficulties. . . . My whole soul pants for light and relief on these questions. But I get neither; and in the distress and anguish of my own spirit, I confess that I see no light whatever. I see not one ray to disclose to me why sin came into the world; why the earth is strewn with the dying and the dead; and why man must suffer to all eternity. I have never seen a particle of light thrown on these subjects, that has given a moment's ease to my tortured mind . . . I confess, when I look on a world of sinners and sufferers- upon death-beds and grave-yards- upon the world of woe filled with hosts to suffer for ever: when I see my friends, my family, my people, my fellow citizens, when I look upon a whole race, all involved in this sin and danger- and when I see the great mass of them wholly unconcerned, and when I feel that God only can save them, and yet he does not do so, I am struck dumb. It is all dark, dark, dark to my soul, and I cannot disguise it." -- Albert Barnes

Practical Sermons Designed for Vacant Congregations and Families
By Albert Barnes [p.123ff]
https://books.google.ca/books?id=ANcTAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA123&lpg=PA123&dq=That+any+should+suffer+forever,+lingering+on+in+hopeless+despair&source=bl&ots=LrwKIXWlUT&sig=mqkHw3bYsbC1CznTHVxq3sjapP8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj1g-Pu5t_cAhVAHTQIHfKlAXEQ6AEwAHoECAAQAQ#v=onepage&q=That any should suffer forever, lingering on in hopeless despair&f=false

Dear Clement: You are a treasure! Every single day in my neck of the woods despair grips many with little hope. The message of the Love of God must fill our hearts to overflowing! I see a New Day breaking!

"The whole of created life shall be delivered/set free..."

 

[FineLinen]

Dear Clement: I am speaking this morning to Stripe in Taiwan. If & when you get the chance & feel the unction, please post this quote you have just given us on the "den of thieves" Board.

 

[FineLinen]

"The story has been told of a beautiful incident that occurred many years ago in the North of England. A young Salvation Army girl, only recently saved, was overflowing with the joy of the Lord and was eager to share her salvation with all others. Walking along the street of a little Durham city, she saw a tall, gray-haired man coming toward her and, stranger though he was, she stopped him and said, "Pardon me, sir, but are you saved?" The tall stranger leaned over toward her and answered, with a quizzical smile playing on his kindly face: "My dear,do you mean ESOTHEN, or SOZOMENOS, or SOTHESOMAI?" The Salvation Army girl was bewildered - it was "all Greek" to her! She did not know that she had stopped bishop Westcott, one of the greatest of Greek scholars and an editor of the famous Westcott and Hort edition of the Greek New Testament. He had asked her, using three different tenses of the Greek verb: "Do you mean, I was saved, or do you mean, I am being saved, or do you mean, I shall be saved?" And then bishop Westcott, who was indeed saved and knew that he was saved, lovingly explained a little of the three tenses of the gospel to the young girl, and showed her something of the riches of her past salvation, her ongoing salvation, and her future salvation, from spirit to soul to body; and before they separated that earnest young girl knew more about the gospel and her Saviour than she had ever known before, and went away rejoicing that she had asked this tall stranger whether he was saved."

My brother Hillsage: this little exercise we have been drawn to by Abba, exceeds anything my limited vision could have remotely imagined. I truly appreciate you and those of like passion. Much thanks for this lovely post! Keeping up/ trying to keep up with the God who is moving in such wide circles of redemption will implode
us! There is a very strong foundation for the word of the Lord>>>>>>>

"Who live by the faith of the Son of God"

 

[Pneuma3]

I guess it all revolves around what one means when the say "self". I always say I am a spirit I have a soul and I live in a body. But I consider "self" to be in the 'soul' realm. Since I think it is in the soul's realm as to whether or not, to lay itself down. And I think that is true both for receiving the salvation of my spirit, and then for the progressive salvation of my soul itself. Not trying to make a big arguing point, but it works for the overall thinking of things, I think.

I agree it is the soul life we are to lay down that we may live. we are not disagreeing here brother we are in agreement. However I do see why you thought we were as the phrasing of spiritual death might not have been the best way to phrase what I was speaking about.

 

[Hillsage]

My brother Hillsage: this little exercise we have been drawn to by Abba, exceeds anything my limited vision could have remotely imagined. I truly appreciate you and those of like passion. Much thanks for this lovely post! Keeping up/ trying to keep up with the God who is moving in such wide circles of redemption will implode
us! There is a very strong foundation for the word of the Lord>>>>>>>

"Who live by the faith of the Son of God"

It's just a joy to be able to point out my little/big theological differences with brethren who are mature and secure in Christ, and not threatened when I poke with my observational disagreements. One's security IN Christ should not respond like a rattlesnake when challenged IMO. My last post from Pneuma is an example.

 

[FineLinen]

It's just a joy to be able to point out my little/big theological differences with brethren who are mature and secure in Christ, and not threatened when I poke with my observational disagreements. One's security IN Christ should not respond like a rattlesnake when challenged IMO. My last post from Pneuma is an example.

Greetings again my brother: The weight of your gift to me has made postings more difficult (for the moment) LOL. I know my friend Pneuma only by our interaction on a number of Boards over the last 15 years. He has proved himself worthy in speaking of our Unlimited God. I love him! And you, the very first to show up on this thread will always hold a place in my heart. If there is one single thing that threatens our place in the Christ, more of His mighty workings are required! I desire anything that can be shaken in me to shake until the Mighty One arises within! I know you feel exactly the same & together we shall speak of His gracious Purpose in our Lord Jesus Christ.

I am only 1/2 way with questions requiring answers. I doubt anybody even remembers the questions, and the majority most surely wish they would go away. I despise starting something & not finishing, but the Spirit has somewhat lifted on that particular endeavor for the moment.

F.L has become bogged down with some young lads on another Board who like the lad who just graduated from plumbing classes had the occasion to visit Niagara Falls>>>>>>>>>

His statement=

" I think I can fix this!"

 

[FineLinen]

Greetings to you who have dropped in!

Today we shall take a little look at the wrath of God & the consequences flowing from such expression.

The Scripture=

https://www.biblestudytools.com/romans/9-22-compare.html

The Wrath Of God

The question=

What does the koine katartízō from katá means?

The Answer=

To render i.e to fit, sound, complete.

To mend (what has been broken or rent) to repair.

To repair what has been broken or rent.

To complete.

To fit out, equip, put in order, arrange, adjust.

To fit or frame for one's self.

To prepare for one's self.

To strengthen, perfect, complete, make one what he ought to be.

To make one what he aught to be

Could it be possible the hilasmos of the holos will actually make the broken wrecks of Adam1 what they aught to be?

YES>>>>>>>YES>>>>>>>YES!

 

[FineLinen]

Welcome to God's Consignment Shop

Do you know what our God has done?

He has "consigned" all mankind to disobedience!

Why would our God do such a thing? Why, why, why?

Yes Pas means the radical all. All mankind is in the Shop of all shops.

The good news=

The Pas consigned to disobedience are rescued.

Your Father has seen fit to bring you Home!

He has consigned all/pas mankind to disobedience so that He might have mercy upon all/pas mankind.

"For God has let them all go against his orders, so that he might have mercy on them all."

https://www.biblestudytools.com/romans/11-32-compare.html

 

[FineLinen]

Dear friends: These are mighty days across planet earth. Darkness covers the earth & "gross darkness" the people. In such an environment I behold an awakening taking place. Today, those referred to as the "elect" and the "especially" join with saints gone from us on this side of Glory but "cheering us on" with the Song of Heaven!

The following post has been presented before, but we are presently engaged with a few "spiritual" dwarfs who cannot grasp our Father as we see Him. You and I
cannot be talked into the Restitution, we must come like bro. Hillsage by the road of His illumination!

The God, Who is Love, is thus in practice changed into an Almighty Proconsul, while the Savior of Men is disguised in the garb of a Roman Governor. Not the mercy-seat, but the seat of judgment is presented to the eye.

An inflexible code, and an unbending Judge rule all; on every side is diffused a sense of terror. Love is subordinate, sin becomes the central fact; guilt, not grace, comes first. "Our Father" to all practical purposes, disappears, while the great Taskmaster, or the Moral Governor, or the Accountant-General takes His place.

It is not that in so many words the love of God and the divine Fatherhood, are denied, but that they are so often recognized in words only. Shrunken, atrophied, palsied, the doctrine remains, as in some country where the rightful monarch has not been formally dethroned, but has dwindled into a puppet.

Such a system may call itself the Gospel, may point to the support of the greatest names, and be taught in thousands of pulpits (often softened, but the same essentially), yet it is a counterfeit and no true Gospel.

Where has the bright and joyous Christianity vanished which covered the dark recesses of the Catacomb; with every symbol, that could attest joy and triumph, but gave no place to any dark and painful image, not even to the Cross? Why was this? Because to these men the victory of Jesus Christ was a thing really believed in, a fact actually realized, and dominating all else.

Because they believed that death, and its sting, was really, truly, universally SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY. And so they loved to paint Christ radiant with youth and strength, true and absolute Conqueror of death and hell. Perpetual death, moral rottenness for ever festering, what place - such were their thoughts- have such things in a restored creation?

Why is the Christ of religious art now so sad, with anguished features and drooping head - is it because He mourns His approaching defeat?

Why have we so very generally banished from our churches the figure of the risen and triumphant Lord- is it because in our heart of hearts we feel in how many cases He fails to triumph? Whither has gone the Vision so noble, so tender, and yet so strong, of the victorious Christ as He descends into Hades, and opening the prison doors brings the disobedient dead back to life?

Yes, "they have taken our Lord away and we know not where they have laid Him." They have taken "Our Father," too, "the All Father," and we know not where to find Him.

For bread they give us a stony creed; judgment without mercy; hell without hope; evil without end; heaven without pity for the lost and the suffering; and a world here, in which to live is truly misery to the thoughtful, as being but the portal and antechamber to endless woe, for so many of their brothers and sisters in Christ, whom they are commanded to love as they love themselves.

-Christ Triumphant-

May the Glorious One fill you with His Presence again today! Remember this operation is in the present continuous tense of be-being! Nothing short of this mighty unction is sufficient!

 

[FineLinen]

"Therefore, surrounded as we are by such a vast cloud of witnesses, let us fling aside every encumbrance and the sin that so readily entangles our feet. And let us run with patient endurance the race that lies before us, simply fixing our gaze upon Jesus our Prince Leader of [the] faith..."

Please note

1. Jesus Christ is the Prince Leader of faith.

2.. Jesus Christ is the Originator & Perfector of faith.

 

[FineLinen]

This is the Father's Plan

He wanted us to enter into the celebration of his lavish gift-giving by the hand of his beloved Son.

Because of the sacrifice of the Messiah, his blood poured out on the altar of the Cross, we're a free people - free of penalties and punishments chalked up by all our misdeeds. And not just barely free, either. Abundantly free!

He thought of everything, provided for everything we could possibly need, letting us in on the plans he took such delight in making. He set it all out before us in Christ, a long-range plan in which everything would be brought together and summed up in him, everything in deepest heaven, everything on planet earth.

It's in Christ that we find out who we are and what we are living for. Long before we first heard of Christ and got our hopes up, he had his eye on us, had designs on us for glorious living, part of the overall purpose he is working out in everything and everyone.

It's in Christ that you, once you heard the truth and believed it (this Message of your salvation), found yourselves home free - signed, sealed, and delivered by the Holy Spirit.

This signet from God is the first installment on what's coming, a reminder that we'll get everything God has planned for us, a praising and glorious life.

That's why, when I heard of the solid trust you have in the Master Jesus and your outpouring of love to all the Christians, I couldn't stop thanking God for you - every time I prayed, I'd think of you and give thanks.

But I do more than thank. I ask - ask the God of our Master, Jesus Christ, the God of glory - to make you intelligent and discerning in knowing him personally,
your eyes focused and clear, so that you can see exactly what it is he is calling you to do, grasp the immensity of this glorious way of life he has for Christians, oh, the utter extravagance of his work in us who trust him - endless energy, boundless strength!

All this energy issues from Christ: God raised him from death and set him on a throne in deep heaven, in charge of running the universe, everything from galaxies to governments, no name and no power exempt from his rule. And not just for the time being, but forever.

He is in charge of it all, has the final word on everything."

-The Message-

 

[Mark Quayle]

Much seems to be assumed by a Universalist concerning the value, or worth, or dignity of the person, apparently in and of himself, as made in the image of God.

Universalism seems to me to ignore that the whole focus of that mindset is on the person, and not on God. We are sinners, which by the holiness of God means that only by our relationship to God are we of any [mathematical] absolute value --those whom God has deemed worthy by the blood of Christ are given meaning, personhood, not in and of themselves, but as members of Christ, which by no means cancels out individuality and God's respect concerning that (no--quite the opposite). Those who are unforgiven walking dead in this life, after this life remain dead, and their only significance resides in their gall of rebellion. God recognizes them as such. That the lake of fire purifies them to ultimately be saved seems to me to only be a logical construct to resolve the misuse of certain verses and the idea of God being all-good.

My friends, I cannot see how this is justice --God does not play around with his Glory. He will not be appeased, except by the purity of Christ imputed. Sin against God is infinite sin, and the payment will never be completed. (This is a huge part of my conviction that Christ is himself God, in that he returned from that payment, being infinite in himself)

I see no mention in Scripture of a two-part redemption.

 

[FineLinen]

Much seems to be assumed by a Universalist concerning the value, or worth, or dignity of the person, apparently in and of himself, as made in the image of God.

Universalism seems to me to ignore that the whole focus of that mindset is on the person, and not on God. We are sinners, which by the holiness of God means that only by our relationship to God are we of any [mathematical] absolute value --those whom God has deemed worthy by the blood of Christ are given meaning, personhood, not in and of themselves, but as members of Christ, which by no means cancels out individuality and God's respect concerning that (no--quite the opposite). Those who are unforgiven walking dead in this life, after this life remain dead, and their only significance resides in their gall of rebellion. God recognizes them as such. That the lake of fire purifies them to ultimately be saved seems to me to only be a logical construct to resolve the misuse of certain verses and the idea of God being all-good.

My friends, I cannot see how this is justice --God does not play around with his Glory. He will not be appeased, except by the purity of Christ imputed. Sin against God is infinite sin, and the payment will never be completed. (This is a huge part of my conviction that Christ is himself God, in that he returned from that payment, being infinite in himself)

I see no mention in Scripture of a two-part redemption.

Dear Mark: Just above you is a translation that speaks of what our Father most glorious is speaking. God indeed does not "play around with His glory" and absolutely does not place His plans and purposes in such weak beings as us. The Restitution of all things, the prophets & sages of the Glory One saw, encompasses that which is His Plan, not yours or mine, or any other fallen wreck in Adam1.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has crowned us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms in Christ; even as, in His love, He chose us as His own in Christ before the creation of the world, that we might be holy and without blemish in His presence.

For He pre-destined us to be adopted by Himself as sons through Jesus Christ--such being His gracious will and pleasure-- to the praise of the splendour of His grace with which He has enriched us in the beloved One. It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will.

And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him..."

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Much seems to be assumed by a Universalist concerning the value, or worth, or dignity of the person, apparently in and of himself, as made in the image of God.

Universalism seems to me to ignore that the whole focus of that mindset is on the person, and not on God. We are sinners, which by the holiness of God means that only by our relationship to God are we of any [mathematical] absolute value --those whom God has deemed worthy by the blood of Christ are given meaning, personhood, not in and of themselves, but as members of Christ, which by no means cancels out individuality and God's respect concerning that (no--quite the opposite). Those who are unforgiven walking dead in this life, after this life remain dead, and their only significance resides in their gall of rebellion. God recognizes them as such. That the lake of fire purifies them to ultimately be saved seems to me to only be a logical construct to resolve the misuse of certain verses and the idea of God being all-good.

My friends, I cannot see how this is justice --God does not play around with his Glory. He will not be appeased, except by the purity of Christ imputed. Sin against God is infinite sin, and the payment will never be completed. (This is a huge part of my conviction that Christ is himself God, in that he returned from that payment, being infinite in himself)

I see no mention in Scripture of a two-part redemption.

True it seems.

Those deceived by universalism don't repent apparently, and aren't apparently likely to either, and are more difficult to get thru to than Calvinists.

 

[FineLinen]

My friends, I cannot see how this is justice --God does not play around with his Glory. He will not be appeased, except by the purity of Christ imputed. Sin against God is infinite sin, and the payment will never be completed. (This is a huge part of my conviction that Christ is himself God, in that he returned from that payment, being infinite in himself)

I see no mention in Scripture of a two-part redemption.

Nor do I, my friend, there is one mighty Redemption that reaches all dimensions of the heavens, the earth, and the underworld. "Infinite sin", no such thing! The Law declares you break one single precept you are guilty of all! That is the radical all/pas!

Our God "IS"=

Our God's essence is LOVE, LIGHT, FIRE, SPIRIT SAVIOUR, all of which move in harmony towards His destined Purpose in the Son of His love!

His justice flows from His Essence all moving in absolute unity to achieve all aspects of His Purpose.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Beware "our" - it sounds like that cult @Colter is in about urantia / utopia / anti-christ.

Our God "IS"=
Our God's essence is LOVE, LIGHT, FIRE, SPIRIT SAVIOUR, all of which move in harmony towards His destined Purpose in the Son of His love!
His justice flows from His Essence all moving in absolute unity to achieve all aspects of His Purpose.

 

[Hillsage]

True it seems.

Those deceived by universalism don't repent apparently, and aren't apparently likely to either, and are more difficult to get thru to than Calvinists.

I won’t speak for anyone but myself; I repented a long time ago. Not to BE forgiven, but to accept the forgiveness that was paid for, by Jesus, 2,000 years ago. My prayer for you is that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened that you have His heart for what Jesus did for all. The gospel isn’t accept him and he’ll die for your forgiveness. The gospel is that He DiD die for your forgiveness. Not believing doesn’t change God’s seeing the debt as paid. I once was blind but now I SEE, you apparently just ‘squint’.