The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

[Pneuma3]

I'm sorry for complaining about 'the whole world' lol but it does seem that way... now that i'm being extracted from religious strongholds, i'm shaking my head, i'm bewildered that i even had to come THROUGH mainstream Christianity!!

it's the worst starting point ever, and caused me much suffering... the last time i tried to leave, still thinking that leaving Christianity meant leaving Christ, but i was suffering so much that i DID THINK about leaving Christ behind, just to escape the pain...

and I think Christ got a little impatient with me, even tho He is sovereign and knew it was coming of course! anyway, He dipped my body in this unspeakable HELL, and it only lasted a second, but it was the longest second of my life!! and i couldn't barely put one foot in front of the other for about an hour after, coz it had weakened my body so much... if it had gone on for any longer it would have killed me. then the still small voice said 'are you sure you want to leave?'

i thought about this, and i thought that i had created this hell, coz i knew it wasn't the firey hell that legend talks about... but what i think now is that it's IMPOSSIBLE to leave Christ!! if Christ wasn't here the universe would COLLAPSE under indescribable evil within seconds!

what is that scripture? even if we believe not, He yet abides faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

I'm shame facedly feeling a little ticked at Jesus for HIDING the fact that mainstream Christianity was a baaaaaad scene, even tho He actually DID try to tell me a couple of times, but I just didn't get it...

but 'it's the glory of God to conceal a matter, and the glory of kings to seek it out'

God wants us to search and work for the truth, and all i can say was that i was lazy, cowardly, and deceived...

so i don't know WHO or WHAT to be angry at this morning lol i'm just a little teensy weensy bit ANGRY AS ALL GET OUT lol

Hi Pneuma...

where ya been hanging out?

there is a book of poetry by a whacky sufi poet named 'Hafiz' and it's called 'I Heard God Laughing'

that's all i can say about that today lol 'I hear God laughing'

Hi Hug, been here the whole time, posting in another thread is all. I don't spend as much time on the net as I use to but I do try to stay in touch from time to time.

 

[Pneuma3]

My Fine brother. I have never once taken the time to give blessings and had to figure out how to even do it, this very first time. So, although I seldom get blessings because I'm here in UNORTHODOX, because I AM in many ways besides UR, there have still been some generous souls over the years allowing me to acquire quite a retirement plan. A plan which I dug deep in to for your 'blessing' ministry. I actually thought about giving my all, but I found out that no matter how unimportant 'giving' has obviously been for me, I was still stingy enough to just give you over 1/2 of my 'virtual reality' wealth. Enjoy them and make many happy brother. And put me on the prayer list for not giving my all....if our Father leads, not because I asked.

Lol me to hill, not very good with computer stuff so don't know how to spread the blessings around, guess I better figure it out.

 

[FineLinen]

Hi Hug, been here the whole time, posting in another thread is all. I don't spend as much time on the net as I use to but I do try to stay in touch from time to time.

Dear Pneuma: Spending vast amounts of time on the net is making my precious wife threatening F.L again. LOL. Now she is aware of my enhanced net worth of blessing points, thanks to Hillsage, she appears to be softening somewhat. There is now no smoke coming out of her ears, only a face that is very red. I love her, love her, love her!

How Deep Can We Dig?

 

[Pneuma3]

I have been having a discussion with DA in another thread and he brought up the second death. Needless to say he believes it to be eternal punishment.

This was my reply.


Da everyone will be salted with fire, everyone.



Look at the first two verses you posted.



Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



These where written to the churches and speak of the difference between the overcomer and those who do not overcome, yet are believers in God and Jesus.



The overcomer is a type of the firstfruits unto God.

The firstfruits are a promise of the whole harvest.



Now there is a natural death (physical death) and there is a spiritual death (dying to self).



Those Christians as well as everyone else who have not died to self in this life are those that will be hurt of the second death.



Those who have overcome and died to self or killed off the old man shall not be hurt of the second death because the second death has no power to hurt them, they have already died to self.



Those scriptures are not saying the overcomer does not go through the fire, they are saying that while in the fire they will not be hurt of it. For they ( the overcomer ) are the righteous among us who shall dwell with everlasting burnings.



Is.33





14The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?







15He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;





Brother if one is already dead to sin/the old man, the first half of the cross (death) cannot hurt them because they have already been resurrected in LIFE.



It is via the CROSS the world is judged and that CROSS is the power of God unto salvation.

 

[Pneuma3]

Lol me to hill, not very good with computer stuff so don't know how to spread the blessings around, guess I better figure it out.

figured it out, that was not to hard, but I really do need a course from computers for dummies. lol

 

[Pneuma3]

Dear Pneuma: Spending vast amounts of time on the net is making my precious wife threatening F.L again. LOL. Now she is aware of my enhanced net worth of blessing points, thanks to Hillsage, she appears to be softening somewhat. There is now no smoke coming out of her ears, only a face that is very red. I love her, love her, love her!

How Deep Can We Dig?

lol.

 

[Hillsage]

My dear brother in arms: You are so funny! How will I keep up with you? You are already before me at the "chateau". You were so generous in your giving, evidently you have spent a remarkable amount of time speaking to the Personage I see in your logo. He, after all, is why we are joined here on this link, and by His "all the more Presence " we look forward to continued joy speaking of Him & and a retirement Plan that is off the charts!

Actually, as per my prayer request (if the Spirit so leads) I have spent my time in glorious conversations with the one who is not only my 'guide post', but also the ultimate 'goal post' of my earthly life. But in 'those days' my self disciplines were much better than the last 8 years. I have as of recent months desired to walk and TALK as I was then. But one of the disciplines I walked in were actually judged as 'personal flagellism' by two pastors in a renowned mega church, and which my local pastor wanted me to spend some time with while he attended a pastoral conference that same weekend. Their reason for thinking I was being a flaggellist, was because I fasted one day weekly with water only. Then when I added to that the fact I, 'then 'also, watched NO TV and listened to little radio and if I did it was only Christian. Such was the intimacy I 'had' with our Lord. But, a joy turned to hurt pulled me away. So much of what I share was 'heard' long ago, but still just as true. And I'm wanting those times back, so bear with me here, as I raise not only my standard for me, but for all who have ears to hear.

I am debating what to do with this windfall. I actually know what I will do, but it is in the dimension of mystery, to be disclosed down the road if all toes remain on this side of Glory. Again my brother, thank you!

I'm assured it is in good hands.

 

[FineLinen]

Friends: We are having a good time here. The discussion has evolved around retirement plans, blessing points, deep holes etc. etc. etc.

We are here for one Purpose: the Living God loves you beyond words and is drawing you to Himself. Whatever your need (and we all have them) He will bring you through to His plan for your life! He will not just bring you, His intention is to restore the entire groaning creation back to Himself & His great Glory. We shall get back to the theme of this link in coming chapters (hopefully). This God of ours is exceedingly above all we can ask or think. EXCEEDINGLY!

 

[Hillsage]

This is NOT Mere Doctrine

Still catching up trying to figure out something Pneuma quoted. Never found it, but did find this post and the video. Thank you Fine Linen for letting me know this dear brother's loss. I only talked to Michelle one time, and in those few minutes the spirit I picked up on, she lived up to, with the words of affirmation that brother Gary shares from the depths of his grieving heart.

 

[FineLinen]

Still catching up trying to figure out something Pneuma quoted. Never found it, but did find this post and the video. Thank you Fine Linen for letting me know this dear brother's loss. I only talked to Michelle one time, and in those few minutes the spirit I picked up on, she lived up to, with the words of affirmation that brother Gary shares from the depths of his grieving heart.

Dear Hillsage: The loss encompassing a grieving heart is beyond words to describe. Bro. Gary A. continues to be a bright light in Father's wonderful purposes. Together we will hold him up with numerous others across the globe. If it was not for Michelle being drawn into Jesus Christ I doubt if Tentmaker would have happened. Our God is so good!

"From Him, through Him, for Him."

 

[Hillsage]

="Pneuma3, post: 73038610, member: 145732"
Now there is a natural death (physical death) and there is a spiritual death (dying to self).

Those Christians as well as everyone else who have not died to self in this life are those that will be hurt of the second death.

Good luck with the opponent who is a concrete Christian....all mixed up and impossible to change.

OK Pneuma, as to your reply to that 'concrete Christian', iron hopefully sharpening iron, and not causing sparks. I Disagree , Agree.

No such thing as a 'spirit dying' IMO. All spirits are eternal. But 'dying to self' or our carnal minded/soul I totally agree with. The first time that we die to self our spirit isn't dead, nor does it die. But it IS born again. And this regenerated spirit is the spirit of Christ in us ...the body of Christ. It is then that 'our' Christ spirit is joined to the head of the body Jesus the Christ and we become 'one spirit' with our Lord.

1CO 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Those who have overcome and died to self or killed off the old man shall not be hurt of the second death because the second death has no power to hurt them, they have already died to self.

I agree, and after the salvation of our spirit we then apply 'overcoming' to us in our working out the salvation of our soul with fear and trembling....which is also putting on the mind of Christ....which is equal to being spirit led and not carnally minded.

Anyway, my thoughts. You are free to disagree as this may be a whole new paradigm and I understand.

 

[FineLinen]

Actually, as per my prayer request (if the Spirit so leads) I have spent my time in glorious conversations with the one who is not only my 'guide post', but also the ultimate 'goal post' of my earthly life. But in 'those days' my self disciplines were much better than the last 8 years. I have as of recent months desired to walk and TALK as I was then. But one of the disciplines I walked in were actually judged as 'personal flagellism' by two pastors he knew in a renowned mega church, and which my local pastor wanted me to spend some time with while he attended a pastoral conference that same weekend. Their reason for thinking I was being a flaggellist, was because I fasted one day weekly with water only. Then when I added to that the fact I, 'then 'also, watched NO TV and listened to little radio and if I did it was only Christian. Such was the intimacy I 'had' with our Lord. But, a joy turned to hurt pulled me away. So much of what I share was 'heard' long ago, but still just as true. And I'm wanting those times back, so bear with me here, as I raise not only my standard for me, but for all who have ears to hear.


I'm assured it is in good hands.

 

[FineLinen]

Dear Hillsage: There is no going back! The Road of His is as important as the Goal. We are making our way thru to Him with many a bruise to mark the path. Bruising hurts, and His Presence breaking upon us along the way presses us into fresh trust in Him & His faithfulness. The Revelation speaks of those who make their way "through great distress" the finality of which births a people described as overcomers.

The mighty man of God Smith Wigglesworth would not allow newspapers into his home. There is nothing wrong with newspapers, only a diversion from the Sound of what is true reality. I am finding my old frame coming the same road with T.V. and anything else which is far below what the Heavenly Newspaper is declaring in no uncertain terms. The Road tends to focus our attention upon Him! Perhaps it is just old toes crossing the great divide, but this has been, and continues to be a path that we have not chosen in the wildest dream. "You have not chosen Me, I have chosen you..." My Father: thank you!

 

[FineLinen]

The Scars of Life

Some years ago, on a hot summer day in south Florida, a little boy decided to go for a swim in the old swimming hole behind his house. In a hurry to dive into the cool water he ran out the back door leaving behind shoes, socks, and shirt as he went. He flew into the water not realizing that as he swam toward the middle of the lake that an alligator was swimming toward the shore.

His father was working in the yard and saw the two as they got closer and closer together. In utter fear he ran toward the water, yelling to his son as loudly as he could. Hearing his voice, the little boy became alarmed and made a U-turn to swim to his father.

But it was too late.

Just as the little boy reached his father, the alligator reached him.

From the dock the father grabbed his little boy by the arms just as the alligator snatched his legs. That began an incredible tug-of-war between the two. The alligator was much stronger than the father, but the father was much too passionate to let go. A farmer happened to drive by and heard his screams. Grabbing a rifle the farmer raced from his truck, took aim, and shot the alligator.

Remarkably, after weeks and weeks in the hospital, the little boy survived. His legs were extremely scarred by the vicious attack of the animal. And on his arms were deep scratches where his father's fingernails had dug into the boy's flesh in his effort to hang on to the son he loved.

A newspaper reporter interviewing the boy after the trauma asked if he would show him the scars on his legs. The boy lifted his pant legs.

And then with obvious pride, the boy said to the reporter, "But look at my arms. I have great scars on my arms, too! I have them because my Dad wouldn't let go."

 

[Hillsage]

figured it out, that was not to hard, but I really do need a course from computers for dummies. lol

I too was a bit embarrassed when I found out how easy it was. But I still had to go through it twice because it didn't like FineLinen with a space (Fine Linen).

 

[Pneuma3]

Good luck with the opponent who is a concrete Christian....all mixed up and impossible to change.

OK Pneuma, as to your reply to the concrete Christian, iron hopefully sharpening iron, and not causing sparks. I Disagree , Agree.

No such thing as a 'spirit dying' IMO. All spirits are eternal. But 'dying to self' or our carnal minded/soul I totally agree with. The first time that we die to self our spirit isn't dead, nor does it die. But it IS born again. And this regenerated spirit is the spirit of Christ in us ...the body of Christ. It is then that 'our' Christ spirit is joined to the head of the body Jesus the Christ and we become 'one spirit' with our Lord.

1CO 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.


I agree, and after the salvation of our spirit we then apply 'overcoming' to us in our working out the salvation of our soul with fear and trembling....which is also putting on the mind of Christ....which is equal to being spirit led and not carnally minded.

Anyway, my thoughts. You are free to disagree as this may be a whole new paradigm and I understand.

I don't see us as disagreeing here hills, my phrasing of spiritual death was not meant to mean the spirit died, but rather that dying to self is spiritual application and not a physical death

 

[FineLinen]

With all earnestness our choice lies between accepting the victory of Christ or of evil, and between these alternatives only.

Escape from this dilemma there is none. It avails nothing to diminish, as many now teach, the number of the lost; or to assert that they will be finally annihilated. All such modifications leave quite untouched the central difficulty of the popular creed - the triumph of evil. Sin for ever present with its taint, even in a single instance, is sin triumphant. Sin, which God has been unable to remove (and has had no resource but to annihilate the sinner) is sin triumphant and death victorious.

Let Us Still Punish Forever

How strange, too, is the delusion, often advocated, viz., that all real objections to the traditional creed are met, if the grosser forms of teaching it are abandoned. This means, I presume, "let us still punish for ever, though all chance of amendment is over. But do not shock the mass of men, do not mention a literal fire: that is to go too far; retain the agony, but be careful to apply the suffering to the highest part - to the spiritual nature. Rack the spirit with endless woe, and remorse; hand over to the devil for ever one formed in God's Image, one for whom the Son of God died; consign man's spirit to endless evil, it lasts only FOR EVER AND EVER! Who can be so unreasonable as to murmur?"

Men's minds must be deeply drugged by prejudice, and the power of reasoning partly paralyzed, when such pleas are advanced; or when they fancy that, by diminishing the area of damnation they elude all objections to endless evil. As though you could solve moral questions by process of arithmetic, or annul the devil's victory by diminishing the number of his victims. So long as one soul for whom Christ died remains in the devil's grip for ever, so long and so far, is the devil victor. Nothing can by a hair's breadth alter that fact.

-Christ Triumphant-

 

[FineLinen]

"God is [the]Saviour of ALL mankind & especially those who believe/trust in Him. Command this & teach this."

1. God is Saviour.

2. God is Saviour of how many? All/pas mankind.

3. God is NOT Saviour of monon/monos those who believe/trust in Him.

4. God IS Saviour of especially/malista those who trust in Him.

5. Command this & teach this.

"You did not choose Me"

I chose you."

Scripture asserts that "God has shut up all men unto disobedience, in order that He might have mercy upon all."

Note here the stress boldly laid on God's agency, and not on man's will. The universality alike of sin and of salvation, both are equally absolute and universal.

1. All mankind is shut up to disobedience.

2. How much is the radical pas/all?

3. Mankind shut up/concluded to disobedience: WHY?

4. Mercy on all mankind.

5. Both salvation & sin universal= ALL mankind.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/roma...2-compare.html

"God has locked up all people in disobedience, in order to have mercy on all of them."

 

[Hillsage]

I don't see us as disagreeing here hills, my phrasing of spiritual death was not meant to mean the spirit died, but rather that dying to self is spiritual application and not a physical death

I guess it all revolves around what one means when the say "self". I always say I am a spirit I have a soul and I live in a body. But I consider "self" to be in the 'soul' realm. Since I think it is in the soul's realm as to whether or not, to lay itself down. And I think that is true both for receiving the salvation of my spirit, and then for the progressive salvation of my soul itself. Not trying to make a big arguing point, but it works for the overall thinking of things, I think.

 

[FineLinen]

I guess it all revolves around what one means when the say "self". I always say I am a spirit I have a soul and I live in a body. But I consider "self" to be in the 'soul' realm. Since I think it is in the soul's realm as to whether or not, to lay itself down. And I think that is true both for receiving the salvation of my spirit, and then for the progressive salvation of my soul itself. Not trying to make a big arguing point, but it works for the overall thinking of things, I think.

My brother: I know of no way to enhance what you have written! Progressive salvation is a wonderful fact flowing from the Author of PI. Actually salvation is in three dimensions of grandeur>>>>

1. We are saved.

2. We are being saved.

3. We will be saved.

Actually the koine is "be-being".

Does anyone wonder why we love Him very much?