• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by FineLinen, Jun 24, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. THE W

    THE W AFRIKANB0T

    +2,452
    United States
    Presbyterian
    Single
    well, good luck on creating your own religion.

    have a good day.
     
  2. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,467
    Christian
    Single
    In Matthew 13 there is a parable about wheat and tares (bearded darnel). A man planted wheat in his field. Later an enemy sowed a malicious weed seed in the same field. During the harvest, the workers cut the stalks, and saved the wheat. They put the weeds in a pile to be burned. Not everything planted will be kept.

    There are other passages a Gospel reader may recall.
    "For many are called, but few are chosen." Matthew 22:14 KJV

    Matthew 7:13 “Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it. 14 How narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way that leads to life! Few are those who find it." (WEB - Public Domain).

    It is not as if every path leads to heaven. Nor can all people be saved. Consider what happened to Judas. Jesus said it would have been better if Judas had not been born (Mark 14:21).
     
  3. twin.spin

    twin.spin Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

    712
    +226
    United States
    Lutheran
    Private
    Universalism is another way of saying the age old demonic lie: "Did God really say" ~ Satan

    Jesus said in John 3:36
    "the one who rejects the Son will not see life; instead, God’s wrath remains on him."

    Jesus said in John 5:28-29
    Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their
    graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good
    will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be
    condemned."



     
  4. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +1,627
    Non-Denom
     
  5. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +1,627
    Non-Denom
    Yes, Yes Christ Jesus the Saviour of the whole world did indeed teach in parable form. You missed one of the foundational parables of fundamentalist's, St.Matthew 25, where we are told of the sheep and the goats and "everlasting life" & "everlasting punishment". I want you to answer carefully.

    Your question=
    According to the context of the discourse, what qualifies a sheep nation for "everlasting life"? What qualifies a goat nation for "everlasting punishment"?
     
  6. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +1,627
    Non-Denom
    The same question just presented below, you can also answer. While all of us wait patiently for a response, consider this>>>>>>

    "What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath–prepared for destruction." Romans 9:22

    Fitted/ Prepared=katartivzw

    Katartivzw=

    To render or to fit.

    To make sound or complete.

    To mend what has been broken or rent.

    To repair what has been broken or rent.

    To put in order.

    To arrange. To adjust.

    To fit or frame for one's self.

    To strengthen, to perfect, to complete.

    To make one what he aught to be.

    Dr. Marvin Vincent

    Fitted/prepared= kathrtismena=

    Literally: adjusted or mended.

    "ei de qelwn o qeoV endeixasqai thn orghn kai gnwrisai to dunaton autou hnegken en pollh makroqumia skeuh orghV kathrtismena eiV apwleian"
     
  7. Hillsage

    Hillsage One for Him and Him for all Supporter

    +1,152
    United States
    Charismatic
    Married
    FYI Joh 3:16 says nothing about "trespasses" and nothing about "sins". You are assuming something that is based upon your indoctrinated belief system. And it is that which I am challenging.

    JOH 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

    I see you've already folded here, so you may not answer back. But all I'm doing is asking the questions I had to ask myself when I was 'seeking the truth' wherever it led, instead of just trying to fight to defend my indoctrinated belief system.

    You mean, like Paul "paid homage" in his salvation experience on the Damascus road?

    ACT 9:3 Now as he journeyed he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed about him. 4 And he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" 5 And he said, "Who are you, Lord?" And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting;
     
  8. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,555
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Private
    Universalism is Heretical satanic Trash.
     
  9. THE W

    THE W AFRIKANB0T

    +2,452
    United States
    Presbyterian
    Single
    no, it just says that eternal life is for those who are believers, not for everybody. and in contrast, those who don't believe will perish. this contrast is further stated as you read to the end of that chapter.

    clearly you guys are well invested in your pet doctrine and no one is going to convince you of anything so i'm not gonna waste anymore of my time. if you want to talk to yourselves thats fine, have at it, but you're not gonna get that far in persuading anyone to your position.
     
  10. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +1,627
    Non-Denom
    In St. Matthew 25 the Lord Jesus Christ lists the qualifying standards for #1 "everlasting life & #2 "everlasting punishment" are we to assume you agree with Him?

    I am sorry you are no longer going to "waste" your time with us. Nothing our Father speaks to us in His sacred word is a waste for me, nothing. Evidently the Lord who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially those who trust in Him, will fail in His mission in your theology. F.L. wishes you the best of what He has to offer.
     
  11. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +1,627
    Non-Denom
    My friend thank you again for your continued participation on this thread. I am fully aware of the struggle all of us face when brought to behold the freshness of Him whose ways are past finding out. Every last vestige of Him must come by disclosure, the opening of the mind and heart and ears. If the 12 who walked with Him in the flesh needed their understanding opened "to understand the Scriptures", we present day disciples also stand on the same ground of need. I was reading of a pastor who in a flash, as he walked through a door into his home, heard the Living One speak something to him he had never entertained until that awakening moment. We will not change one heart, one mind, one person: that requires ONE who by the Holy Ghost can make you tremble. What we can do is testify in a small measure to what burns in our beings. May He bless you my brother abundantly and all of us.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
  12. twin.spin

    twin.spin Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

    712
    +226
    United States
    Lutheran
    Private
    Here the answer: 1 Timothy 6
    1) When proponents of universalism wantonly reject what God says in totality, more often than not, they revert to more hubris by having "unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words".

    2) Such hubris signifies that proponents of Universalism should be considered:
    "If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, they are conceited and understand nothing"

    3) "The sound instruction of our Lord Jesus" also is taught in John 3:36 \John 5:28-29 among others

    4) The final recourse to Universalists who "are conceited and understand nothing" is to:
    "Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge, which some have professed and in so doing have departed from the faith."

    Therefore I turn away from Universalist's quarrel about words and the opposing of ideas.​
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  13. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +1,627
    Non-Denom
    Twin: The Restitution of all things has been spoken in/by the mouths of the prophets from earliest ages. Those words stare you in the face and satan (with a small s)knows very well the game is up! Focus on the fact that every being, in every dimension of the universe (heavens/ earth/ and underworld) will bow and confess IN worship before Him. You will note this is not by perfunctory genuflections but IN the Name of all names.

    "That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow (ina en twi onomati Ihsou pan gonu kampsh). First aorist active subjunctive of kamptw, old verb, to bend, to bow, in purpose clause with ina. Not perfunctory genuflections whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, but universal acknowledgment of the majesty and power of Jesus who carries his human name and nature to heaven. This universal homage to Jesus is seen in Romans 8:22 ;Ephesians 1:20-22 and in particular Revelation 5:13 . Under the earth (katacqoniwn). Homeric adjective for departed souls, subterranean, simply the dead. Here only in the N.T." -A.T Robertson-
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  14. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +1,627
    Non-Denom
    With all the despair we have created with all the zillions of religions in various forms that is what we need?

    Dr. William Barclay

    "I am a convinced universalist. I believe that in the end all men will be gathered into the love of God. In the early days Origen was the great name connected with universalism. I would believe with Origen that universalism is no easy thing. Origen believed that after death there were many who would need prolonged instruction, the sternest discipline, even the severest punishment before they were fit for the presence of God. Origen did not eliminate hell; he believed that some people would have to go to heaven via hell. He believed that even at the end of the day there would be some on whom the scars remained. He did not believe in eternal punishment, but he did see the possibility of eternal penalty. And so the choice is whether we accept God's offer and invitation willingly, or take the long and terrible way round through ages of purification.

    Gregory of Nyssa offered three reasons why he believed in universalism. First, he believed in it because of the character of God. "Being good, God entertains pity for fallen man; being wise, he is not ignorant of the means for his recovery." Second, he believed in it because of the nature of evil. Evil must in the end be moved out of existence, "so that the absolutely non-existent should cease to be at all." Evil is essentially negative and doomed to non-existence. Third, he believed in it because of the purpose of punishment. The purpose of punishment is always remedial. Its aim is "to get the good separated from the evil and to attract it into the communion of blessedness." Punishment will hurt, but it is like the fire which separates the alloy from the gold; it is like the surgery which removes the diseased thing; it is like the cautery which burns out that which cannot be removed any other way....."

    I AM A CONVINCED UNIVERSALIST, by William Barclay
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  15. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +1,627
    Non-Denom
    Thank You Clement
    "In Ps. 66:3-5, God is described twice as ―awesome‖ in the very context of ―enemies submitting themselves‖ through His ―great‖ power. And this mind you, is all in the context of ―all the earth‖ worshipping and singing praises to God! David then invites us to come and see how awesome is His doing toward humanity!

    Where is ―forced‖ worship here? As well, they are ―submitting themselves,‖ not ―being‖ submitted. Relative to Mic. 7:18-19, how can a ―compassionate subduing‖ from a God ―delighting in mercy‖ (in the very context of sins cast away) possibly coincide with a forced worship of those eternally being tormented in hell?

    Now Ph. 3: 21 is found in the very same letter as our key text, making it particularly pertinent. It affirms that God‘s power is ―even able‖ to do something. ―Even able‖ implies something extraordinarily impressive. A compelled submission by brute force is not particularly impressive. But a God winning the hearts of His enemies through His sacrificial love on the cross—that is impressive! That‘s what makes Him truly a most ―awesome‖ and all powerful God!
     
  16. th1bill

    th1bill Newbie

    891
    +62
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    Matthew 18:2-4 New International Version (NIV)
    2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children,A)" data-cr="#cen-NIV-23731A" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;"> you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

    What does the passage Mean?

    When I was a child I did not fear approaching nor of being near to him but there was a fear in me of him, just the same. I did not fear being reproved, he often disciplined me fr the foolish actions I committed. No, my fear ws rooted in my love for him and the times we were doing this or that, together. I feared disappointing him and thus causing his heart to ache.

    After my first five years of studying the scriptures the Holy Spirit revealed this truth to me and the deapth of this passage became without bottom or limit. I find it sad that Satan has managed to update the meaning of fear to exclude the most important aspect of fear, canceling love from it's usage.

    When I spanked my children, very seldom, is best illustrated by the incident of going to the Movie Theater together for the first time with my namesake. He pulled his hand from my grasp and darted in front of a car in the Parking Lot.

    Without thought or planning, I reacted with my hand on his butt. I was wrong! I did not make it clear why he was being spanked before the act. Crying, both of us after the punishment, we sat on the curb and I, then, let him know he had disappointed me and why. From that moment, forward, he feared disappointing me. That is the fear YHWH seaks of when we are taught to fear Him.
     
  17. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +1,627
    Non-Denom
     
  18. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +1,627
    Non-Denom
    My brother you have nailed it! Perfect love casts out all fear. The theme of our life must not be gain or reward, but displeasing Him. Much thanks for your post!

    "From that moment, forward, he feared disappointing me. That is the fear YHWH seaks of when we are taught to fear Him."
     
  19. Hillsage

    Hillsage One for Him and Him for all Supporter

    +1,152
    United States
    Charismatic
    Married
    All the while you are just believing 'your bible' and discounting all the bibles that disagree. And the errors started long ago, according to Jeremiah.

    JER 8:8 "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.

    We believe we've found the "demonic lie" you speak of, and you are the ones saying ETERNAL HELL. I have a list of 25 bibles and new testaments without the word 'HELL' in them.



    We do not serve a God of ETERNAL WRATH, we serve a God of ETERNAL LOVE, but whose WRATH is going to achieving everlasting righteousness for ALL His beloved creation...in the ages to come. Your theology is too myopic to see past this age .

    JOH 3:36 he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.'

    BTW have you ever done an etymological study of the word that the nominal church has translated WRATH/orge?

    3709 orge: prop. desire (as a reaching forth or excitement of the mind), i.e. (by anal.) violent passion (ire, or [justifiable] abhorrence); by impl. punishment

    If you'll notice, it's the very Greek word that we get ORGEE from. A lot of 'excitement of mind' and 'passion' from God for us? You bet. And being punished in an ORGEE probably isn't comparable to the nominal church and thier Dante's Inferno picture of eternal hell IMO.


    You do know there are several Greek words translated as "judgment" don't you? And this Greek word in John is 'krisis', the same word from which we get 'crisis' from. IOW we go through 'crisis/krisis' many times over in this life as we; "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"....so what? Those who were never "called, chosen, predestined" or "ordained to believe" in this age, by God, will be called in the ages to come to undergo their time of 'krisis'. You simply reveal your heart when you can justify a God of Love torturing most of His beloved creation for eternity....as well as for no purpose at all.
     
  20. Hillsage

    Hillsage One for Him and Him for all Supporter

    +1,152
    United States
    Charismatic
    Married
    I am aware of 'this pastor'. The verse which hit him like a ton of bricks as he wrestled with a congregant challenging him with Ultimate Reconciliation was the following;

    COL 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

    As he went through the doorway the Spirit of Truth challenged him saying; "What needs to be reconciled 'IN HEAVEN'?" After all, nothing in the heavenly realm needs reconciling but demons. :idea: Like the song says; "There is power power in the blood of Jesus." More power and a better plan, than the nominal church can even believe. To have ears to hear, one must loosen the death grip on what they believe.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...