The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

[needhugs]

But is this what you mean, by what I am quoting you to have said??

Actually, I meant, that we can't come to Jesus without the Father DRAGGING us, and....

you know, i was just thinking about that scripture 'work out YOUR OWN salvation with fear and trembling... etc... for IT'S GOD THAT WORKS IN YOU, both to will and to do His good pleasure'

i may not have that scripture exact, but i'm sure you know it too.

this scripture is NOT telling us to 'work out your own salvation' ...COZ YOU CAN'T, and it will only terrify you if you try.. GOD does that work too, God brings you, and God saves you...

it's in the Bible that not all are MEANT to be saved in this age... this should sober us for sure.

but we should not feel PRIDE that we have somehow chosen to go to the good place when we die... and look down on people who are blinded by satan, OR blinded by God Himself, because He has another purpose for them later.

pride was my big sin, that i walked into freely, calling it 'self esteem'... and it led to all manner of evil

now i have a bit of a hate on for pride

'lest any man should boast'... boast about having something to do with being a Christian, something to do with their good works, which God also plans and does FOR US.

BOAST that they are better than the ... what did you call them? vile vessels of satan?... because BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD, THERE WALK ALL OF US.

That's what i meant.

sorry, that wasn't a mic drop... i should be more careful what i say when i have been up all night... sorry, i mean if you think i'm being a sacred COW haha, forgive me

 

[com7fy8]

I think you have made yourself plenty clear, Need Hugs.

but we should not feel PRIDE that we have somehow chosen to go to the good place when we die... and look down on people who are blinded by satan, OR blinded by God Himself, because He has another purpose for them later.

Our Apostle Paul says "we all" have been "by nature children of wrath, just as the others." (in Ephesians 2:3)

So, to me this shows how no one has been any better than anyone else so that any of us had the goodness in ourselves to get our own selves to choose Jesus.

Also, what helps me is Hebrews 5:2 >

"He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)

BOAST that they are better than the ... what did you call them? vile vessels of satan?... because BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD, THERE WALK ALL OF US.

I have been a sewer bucket. But I experience that God has changed and saved me. Can I prove this, of course? God is the One who really knows. I have proven how capable I am of fooling my own self and not even knowing it. But I keep finding that God proves Himself in me, by doing what His word says He does in His children, including Philippians 2:13-16.

 

[needhugs]

I think you have made yourself plenty clear, Need Hugs.Our Apostle Paul says "we all" have been "by nature children of wrath, just as the others." (in Ephesians 2:3)

So, to me this shows how no one has been any better than anyone else so that any of us had the goodness in ourselves to get our own selves to choose Jesus.

Also, what helps me is Hebrews 5:2 >

"He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)

I have been a sewer bucket. But I experience that God has changed and saved me. Can I prove this, of course? God is the One who really knows. I have proven how capable I am of fooling my own self and not even knowing it. But I keep finding that God proves Himself in me, by doing what His word says He does in His children, including Philippians 2:13-16.

oh gosh, i'll bet both MY sewer and MY BUCKET were bigger than yours lol... we all know the scripture 'pride comes before a fall'... my fall has been a real hell on earth, and it's lasted since the 90's... just a couple days ago, Jesus gave me the faith that it's over!

there is a scripture, somewhere, i'm tired... that God has put us ALL in unbelief, so that He may have MERCY ON ALL... actually, it says WE should have the mercy and thru OUR mercy they obtain mercy... that's interesting.

ok, durn it, i'll go look for the scripture lol

Romans 11:31-33 King James Version (KJV)
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

 

[FineLinen]

The Destruction Of The Wicked

The "Destruction" of the Wicked

Roger Tutt

Hope 4 You, Roger Tutt

Prof. Keith DeRose The Really Good News

Universalism and the Bible – Keith DeRose

"..so abundant was God's grace,the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it—the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. In Him we also have been made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will, so that we should be devoted to the extolling of His glorious attributes.."

The Purpose of God By Vladimir Gelesnoff

In PAUL'S letters repeated reference is made to God's "purpose" (Rom.8:28; 9:11; Eph.1:11; 3:11; 2 Tim.1:9). In all these scriptures the word is prothesis. Its force may be gathered from the fact that the twelve loaves which were placed on the Tabernacle table before the Lord are styled "loaves of purpose" (Matt.12:4; Mark 2:26; Luke 6:14; Heb.9:2).

Hence the scriptures which speak of God's prothesis tell us that He has set before Himself a definite aim or object which He is bent on achieving.

In Eph.3:11, occurs the phrase, "according to the purpose of the eons which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord."

The Purpose Of God, by Vladimir Gelesnoff

George Hawtin: The Restitution Of All Things

https://www.godfire.net/restitutionHawtin.html

Well done, my friend. That is the N.T. Translation of Weymouth, and an excellent one indeed! I will place before all of us a N.T. Translation by my friend and brother>>>>>>>

Jonathan Mitchell N.T. Translation=

http://www.greater-emmanuel.org/jmt/


6. unto praise of His grace's glory [or: into {the} praise of {the} glory of His grace] which He graced us (gifts us with grace) within the One having been loved (the Beloved One) [some MSS: within His beloved Son],

7. in Whom we continuously have (hold) the redemption (the release procured by the payment of a ransom) through His blood, the sending away (forgiveness; dismissal) of the fallings aside (the stumblings by the side; false steps; offences; transgressions) in accordance with (down from) the riches (wealth) of His grace,

8. which He caused to superabound around unto us (or: which He makes to be more than enough into us; which He outflanked into us;... lavishes into us) within all wisdom (in every wise thing) and thoughtful prudence (gut‑intelligence; mindful purpose; considerate understanding),

9. making known to us (acquainting us by experiential knowledge) the secret (mystery; hidden knowledge) of His will (determined purpose; resolve) ‑ in accord with (down from) His good thought which He before placed within Himself [or: designed beforehand {determined by setting forth} within Himself],


10. into an administration of that which fills up the seasons (fitting situations) [or: unto a dispensing of the entire contents of the seasons; a house‑law of the full measure of the fitting situations; a management of a household of the complement of the seasons; an administration of the fullness of the eras], to itself bring back all things (the whole) up under one Head [or: to bring back to and gather round the main point] within the Christ: the things upon [other MSS: within] the heavens and the things upon the land (earth) ‑ within Him!



11. In Whom also we were (are) chosen (appointed) by lot [or: were made an allotted portion; received an inheritance], being previously marked out (being before designated) in accord with (down from) a before‑placed (predetermined by setting forth) design of the One continuously operating (effecting; energizing) all things (the whole) in accord with (down from) the purpose (intent; design; plan; determined counsel) of His will (resolve),

12. into this: that we continuously be (exist) unto [the] praise of His glory ‑ [we] being the ones having before placed expectation (hope) within the Christ."

 

[FineLinen]

Take your choice: the message is clear and concise; Abba has determined by His own will and purpose to finalize the all in His beloved Son!

https://www.biblestudytools.com/compare-translations/passage/?q=ephesians+1:8-10

 

[needhugs]

Take your choice: the message is clear and concise; Abba has determined by His own will and purpose to finalize the all in His beloved Son!

https://www.biblestudytools.com/compare-translations/passage/?q=ephesians+1:8-10

LOVELY tool

i'm going to be using that one a lot!!!

thank you, God bless!

 

[FineLinen]

But, according to what I see in Hebrews 12:4-14, we now can receive our Heavenly Father's correction making us "partakers of His holiness" . . . "without which no one will see the Lord." This does not say one can procrastinate until another life. God is easily able to succeed now. Satan is the one who can only promise until some later age, but never deliver on his promises. But God's grace almighty is succeeding now.

Welcome to the God who draws in His own good timing. Abba's grace is succeeding now, will continue to succeed in every age, and will reach every last broken son of Adam1.>>>>>

But wait, there is more, much more

Every dimension of the heavens, the earth and the underworld ultimately sings in antiphonal worship IN the Name of all names>>>>>"You are Lord"!

 

[needhugs]

But, according to what I see in Hebrews 12:4-14, we now can receive our Heavenly Father's correction making us "partakers of His holiness" . . . "without which no one will see the Lord." This does not say ones can procrastinate until another life. God is easily able to succeed now. Satan is the one who can only promise until some later age, but never deliver on his promises. But God's grace almighty is succeeding now.

Welcome to the God who draws in His own good timing. Abba's grace is succeeding now, will continue to succeed in every age, and will reach every last broken son of Adam1.>>>>>

But wait, there is more, much more

Every dimension of the heavens, the earth and the underworld ultimately sings in antiphonal worship IN the Name of all names>>>>>"You are Lord"!

actually, it was Martin Zender who was talking about some scripture about people who aren't destined to be saved in this life.... but i'll be at the front of the line to say Martin's cheese may have slipped off his cracker

 

[FineLinen]

LOVELY tool

i'm going to be using that one a lot!!!

thank you, God bless!

My dear Lady: Mrs. F.L. is threatening to leave me if I do not get something accomplished besides what consumes me. Bless you muchly!

 

[needhugs]

My dear Lady: Mrs. F.L. is threatening to leave me if I do not get something accomplished besides what consumes me. Bless you muchly!

oh my dog!!!! lol go! don't get a divorce over this link

 

[mkgal1]

God views and judges the spirit of Man in only 2 "piles":
1. Truly saved believers
2. Lost UNbelievers
,

It seems you missed the plot of the Bible (and the point of Jesus' teaching ). What is His mission with these "lost"?

The parable of the lost sheep is the first of three consecutive parables Jesus shares with his disciples to show us the heart of God and the mission of Christ. God's mission in Christ is to seek and to save the lost (Lk 19:10). -https://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2013/may/parable-of-lost-sheep-closer-look.html​

 

[mkgal1]

A sincere study of these passages, in my opinion, is going to reveal a lot about God's desire to make "broken pieces" whole again:

They all ate and were satisfied, and the disciples picked up twelve basketfuls of broken pieces that were left over - Matthew 14:20

Great crowds of people came to him, bringing the lame, the blind, the crippled, the mute and many others, and laid them at his feet; and He healed them.
(Matthew 15:30, NIV)​

 

[Der Alte]

maybe stick with the Bible (Torah) rather than the oral traditions of men?
i'll pop in later to see what is written in this link.
plus i have been under that Hebrews 10 punishment for 20 years or more... it's ending, i can tell you, that it ends

If this is directed at me, I do as much as is possible but let us consider if we are talking about the "Torah" should we not consider how the Jews, remember them God's chosen people, interpreted their Hebrew scriptures? By quoting Jewish sources that is exactly what I have done. Or should we [re]interpret scripture to make them align with the teachings of various modern religious groups?

Hebrews 10:28-29
(28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
(29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?​

Is this the Heb 10 punishment you referred to? This clearly speaks of a punishment worse than dying without mercy. If something is ending then there is mercy, but Heb 10 says dying, not living and being tormented, dying without mercy. Not mercy someday, not mercy in the after life but without mercy.

 

[Der Alte]

It seems you missed the plot of the Bible (and the point of Jesus' teaching ). What is His mission with these "lost"?

The parable of the lost sheep is the first of three consecutive parables Jesus shares with his disciples to show us the heart of God and the mission of Christ. God's mission in Christ is to seek and to save the lost (Lk 19:10). -https://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2013/may/parable-of-lost-sheep-closer-look.html​

Were those sheep alive or were they dead when the shepherd found them? What about the sheep that were drowned or eaten by lions or wolves?

 

[needhugs]

If this is directed at me, I do as much as is possible but let us consider if we are talking about the "Torah" should we not consider how the Jews, remember them God's chosen people, interpreted their Hebrew scriptures? By quoting Jewish sources that is exactly what I have done. Or should we [re]interpret scripture to make them align with the teachings of various modern religious groups?

Hebrews 10:28-29
(28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
(29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?​

Is this the Heb 10 punishment you referred to? This clearly speaks of a punishment worse than dying without mercy. If something is ending then there is mercy, but Heb 10 says dying, not living and being tormented, dying without mercy. Not mercy someday, not mercy in the after life but without mercy.

I don't know what various groups to listen to, but I do know that Jesus got REALLY ANGRY at the very oral tradition that you are consulting..

Psalm 107:1: “Oh, give thanks to the LORD, for He is good! For His mercy endures forever.”

God obviously had mercy for people who broke the mosaic law... or Jesus would have been the only one to stone 'the adulteress'... but instead He said 'Neither do I condemn you'

if i had to guess who had no mercy, i would say all the religious people with rocks.

God always has mercy, and yes, that punishment is worse than dying.

but I don't want to talk about it. sorry.

I have talked about it a bit in this thread, but I don't want to talk about it with you. Anybody that makes demons happy when they talk is not somebody I want to have anything to do with...

you seem almost gleeful at discovering an endless punishment with no mercy... you are probably very hard hearted. to say the least.

 

[Der Alte]

begin

Psalm 107:1: “Oh, give thanks to the LORD, for He is good! For His mercy endures forever.”
God obviously had mercy for people who broke the mosaic law... or Jesus would have been the only one to stone 'the adulteress'... but instead He said 'Neither do I condemn you'
if i had to guess who had no mercy, i would say all the religious people with rocks.
God always has mercy, and yes, that punishment is worse than dying.
but I don't want to talk about it. sorry.

end

I have PTSD, 2 years combat Vietnam, helicopter pilot shot down 5 times wounded once, while it is bad I don't think I can compare it to "dying without mercy."
.....In the story of the adulteress to whom Jesus said "Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more." she was alive, right? I'm interested in specific verses which state unequivocally that God will save those who are unrepentant in this life, after they die.

 

[needhugs]

Psalm 107:1: “Oh, give thanks to the LORD, for He is good! For His mercy endures forever.”
God obviously had mercy for people who broke the mosaic law... or Jesus would have been the only one to stone 'the adulteress'... but instead He said 'Neither do I condemn you'
if i had to guess who had no mercy, i would say all the religious people with rocks.
God always has mercy, and yes, that punishment is worse than dying.
but I don't want to talk about it. sorry.
I have PTSD, 2 years combat Vietnam, helicopter pilot shot down 5 times wounded once, while it is bad I don't think I can compare it to "dying without mercy."
.....In the story of the adulteress to whom Jesus said "Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more." she was alive, right? I'm interested in specific verses which state unequivocally that God will save those who are unrepentant in this life, after they die.

well, toss in a dose of severe demonic torment and we will see how you feel about dying THEN...
ok, if you want scriptures and Biblical proof that God is going to save every single rotten one of us, then watch this blasted video that i have posted 2 or 3 times before, but nobody watches... it's PROOF
durnit.

 

[FineLinen]

A sincere study of these passages, in my opinion, is going to reveal a lot about God's desire to make "broken pieces" whole again:

They all ate and were satisfied, and the disciples picked up twelve basketfuls of broken pieces that were left over - Matthew 14:20

Great crowds of people came to him, bringing the lame, the blind, the crippled, the mute and many others, and laid them at his feet; and He healed them.
(Matthew 15:30, NIV)​

Mkgal: My dear lady: I knew you were there, and thank you for a wonderful post! Jesus Christ does indeed receive sinners; the broken pieces of bread and fish are not going to be wasted/lost, & the broken wrecks of our broken race more so!

 

[needhugs]

I'm interested in specific verses which state unequivocally that God will save those who are unrepentant in this life, after they die.

Romans 11:32 King James Version (KJV)
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

 

[FineLinen]

A sincere study of these passages, in my opinion, is going to reveal a lot about God's desire to make "broken pieces" whole again:

They all ate and were satisfied, and the disciples picked up twelve basketfuls of broken pieces that were left over - Matthew 14:20

Great crowds of people came to him, bringing the lame, the blind, the crippled, the mute and many others, and laid them at his feet; and He healed them.
(Matthew 15:30, NIV)​

Mkgal: I knew you were there! Thank you for a wonderful post. Jesus Christ is still the One who specializes in broken bread and fish and broken beings of ADAM I. Nothing will He allow to be wasted/lost/ discarded: NOTHING! My God how can one help to not love Him.