The questions about Sabbath and Baptism

[Benedicta00]

Shelb,
there are two HUGE flaws with your comments about Christ and the Sabbath.

You claim that Christ broke the Sabbath and you suredly believe this was somehow acceptable because the Sabbath become no longer binding due to His work on the cross. What you failed to miss was that Christ' alleged Sabbath breaking occurred before the cross, which means that it had to still be a binding law...thus making Christ a sinner! This of course would create even bigger problems for you than it solves, because Christ did not sin.

Then that ought to tell you something, it wasn't binding according to God.

Next, for the Sabbath to have been done away at the cross would mean that it was a ceremonial law. Yet, Christ included them in the ten moral laws. Did Christ make a mistake? Did he not know how to categorize his own laws? The ceremonial laws came after sin which pointed forward to Christ' and his redemptive work to come. Yet, the Sabbath was instituted before sin and was placed as a memorial to his creative work, not our redemption. That means that Christ knew exactly what he was doing when he placed it amidst the ten moral laws.

We didn't do away with it; we just moved it to Sunday. We do considered that a day of rest and we are to reframe from any unnecessary work and God did not command that we keep the Sabbath when he rested on that day, he only said that he rested on that day.

 

[adam332]

Christ did not break the Biblical laws of the Sabbath, he broke mans laws about the Sabbath found in the Mishnah. Those were the laws they were accusing him of breaking. You obviously know very little about God's laws or gospel references to these events.

And as has been pointed out before....man has NEVER HAD THE AUTHORITY TO CHANGE ANYTHING BIBLICAL. To teach it yes, to change it no. The mere insinuation that he has such authority is blasphemy!

 

[adam332]

It is not the Jewish Sabbath...it was made for man 2300 yrs before a Jew existed...besides if you are a follower of Christ then you are a JEW!

 

[Symes]

We didn't do away with it; we just moved it to Sunday. We do considered that a day of rest and we are to reframe from any unnecessary work and God did not command that we keep the Sabbath when he rested on that day, he only said that he rested on that day

That is where the problem is. Your church moved it without authority from God. God did not say to shift it so it cannot be shifted.

The true Sabbath is still the seventh day of the week.

 

[Symes]

The Church doesn’t deny that God created the Saturday Sabbath but there is no command in what you quoted that says we must worship Him on that day.

If you go over to Exodus 20 you will find that God spelt out in detail His command concerning the Sabbath. Before that there was still the Sabbath. look in chapter 16.

 

[Benedicta00]

That is where the problem is. Your church moved it without authority from God. God did not say to shift it so it cannot be shifted.

Yes he did. He breathed on his apostles and said to them that what they bind on earth is bound in heaven and what they lose on earth is loosed in heaven. He did not say that everything they bind accept for the Sabbath day, he said “what so ever you bind” in bound in heaven, “what so ever you lose” is loosed in heaven.

The true Sabbath is still the seventh day of the week.

Yes, for the Jews it is. I am not a Jew, I am a Christian.

 

[Benedicta00]

If you go over to Exodus 20 you will find that God spelt out in detail His command concerning the Sabbath. Before that there was still the Sabbath. look in chapter 16.

I’m not a Jew, I am a Christian, I worship on the day that Christ rose from the dead, I have no need to worship on a day that was given to the Jews to worship on, I am not a Jew, I accept Christ.

 

[Benedicta00]

It is not the Jewish Sabbath...it was made for man 2300 yrs before a Jew existed...besides if you are a follower of Christ then you are a JEW!

Where did God command that we keep the Sabbath? All I read is that he rested on the 7 day.

 

[Benedicta00]

Christ did not break the Biblical laws of the Sabbath, he broke mans laws about the Sabbath found in the Mishnah. Those were the laws they were accusing him of breaking. You obviously know very little about God's laws or gospel references to these events.

And as has been pointed out before....man has NEVER HAD THE AUTHORITY TO CHANGE ANYTHING BIBLICAL. To teach it yes, to change it no. The mere insinuation that he has such authority is blasphemy!

The Saturday Sabbath is biblical but it was only commanded of the Jews to keep that day, Christ came along and it is no longer required under the New covenant, it was only required under the Old covenant. Show me where God commanded that we keep the Sabbath on Saturday before the Jews came and then again after Christ came.

 

[Symes]

Amen John.

Jesus said these words.

"The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."

The Jews clearly understood that the Sabbath was Saturday, the seventh day of the week.

 

[Benedicta00]

Amen John.

Jesus said these words.

"The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."

The Jews clearly understood that the Sabbath was Saturday, the seventh day of the week.

Symes and John,

It was made for man, the Jewish man. Please show me where God ordered anyone else other than the Jews to keep this day?

 

[Symes]

"The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."

Man does not spell Jew but MAN. That is all man.

There were no Jews when God made the earth and rested on the seventh day.

Look at all the times that Paul worshiped with the Gentiles on the Sabbath. They were not Jews but still kept the Sabbath.

 

[adam332]

Yes you are a Jew read the NT.

Followers of Christ are inward Jews, they are counted as abraham's seed, they are coinheritors of the commonwealth of Israel. The only believer who God does not consider to be a Jew, Israelite or Abraham's seed is those who deny Christ.

Might want to check the original covenant with abraham...never was it meant for those only of his bloodline, but instead it included everyman in his household who accepted the covenant. Christ expanded the covenant because he is the embodiment of the true Israel. And if you accept Christ you are grafted into his household and become a Jew spiritually, which is all that God ever indicated was a factor for being a Jew. A circumsized heart is not a NT concept, check the OT as well. Throughout the OT we see non-literal descendants joining God's Israel and we also see literal Israelites who were not accepted by God.

The entire Bible is clear, especially the NT, od's chosen people were always determined by the heart, never the bloodline. So yes...you are a Jew or you do not accept Christ. That is the clear and Biblical truth of the matter.

 

[adam332]

BTW ...do you think Jesus was a Jew?


According to who, God or man?

By the lineage standards that had become the tradition of the literal Israelites he wasn't. Don't believe me?...then check Christ' lineage again.

 

[Symes]

Symes and John,

It was made for man, the Jewish man. Please show me where God ordered anyone else other than the Jews to keep this day?

We are spiritual Jews and therefore receive the promises made to Abraham. Look in Galatians 3:29

"And if ye be Christ's, then ye are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise"

Eph 3:6

"That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel."

Anyone who takes the name of Christ then also receives the promises given to Abraham.

That makes us JEWS and must obey what Christ says and follow His example. He kept the seventh day Sabbath.

 

[Benedicta00]

He kept the seventh day Sabbath.

And we do too, we keep it, we just moved it to Sunday, that is all, to celebrate our redemption. Do you think God will really mind us doing that?

 

[Symes]

And we do too, we keep it, we just moved it to Sunday, that is all, to celebrate our redemption. Do you think God will really mind us doing that?

Do you think God approves?

He said that we must worship on the seventh day and has never told us to worshop on the first day.

Ezek. 20:12,20

"Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us, so they would know that I the LORD made them holy.Keep my Sabbaths holy, that they may be a sign between us. Then you will know that I am the LORD your God."

We will keep the Sabbath in heaven.

Isa. 66:22,23

"As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the LORD , "so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD."

Hebrews 13:8

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever."

Jesus/God does not change. He made the laws and cannot change them.

Back to your question

Do you think God will really mind us doing that?

I would have to say yes, God does mind.

 

[Phileo]

If you are a Christian and you feel compelled to obey the Sabbath of the old covenant... I'd ask you in the words of Christ, Is it good to put new wine into old skins?

Christians worship on Sunday because CHRIST is the New Covenant. His work of paying the penalty for our sins was paid in full when He arose EARLY ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK

This my Christian friends was the beginning of the New Covenant. And the Final signing was Pentecost, when the Apostle received the Promise to Come which was the Holy Spirit. And that too was on the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved."

I don't know about you, but I am not putting this fine new wine in an old skin, that it should burst and all that I have received from Christ in this New Covenant lost and ruined.

If you live by the law (The old Covenant), and break any one part of it, you will be condemned by all of it. So if you observe the Sabbath you better make sure you are not eating ham, or shrimp. Most of you think the Law is comprised of the 10 commandments... you better go back and read Leviticus, because there are 100's of laws to follow. So Good Luck on the Sabbath Observance.

I will let His Grace be sufficient for me!

 

[Symes]

If you are a Christian and you feel compelled to obey the Sabbath of the old covenant... I'd ask you in the words of Christ, Is it good to put new wine into old skins?

The Sabbath is not the Old Covenant. The Sabbath was there long before any covenants were in place. The Sabbath was there at Creation. The Old Covenant did not come into place until after the Ten Commandments were given.

Still waiting for someone to show me where Jesus changed the day from the seventh to the first. He made the Sabbath and He is the only one who can change it. His resurrection on the first day of the week proves nothing. Actually Jesus kept the Sabbath in His death. Crucified on the sixth day, rested on the seventh day, rose on the first day. So if anything it shows that we should also keep the seventh day as the Sabbath.

 

[Symes]

This my Christian friends was the beginning of the New Covenant. And the Final signing was Pentecost, when the Apostle received the Promise to Come which was the Holy Spirit. And that too was on the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK.

Sounds good, but where is the Bible texts to support such a theory?