The question cessationists must answer.

[Dave L]

You posted it, not me, so I've no idea what post you meant, but it still made no sense.
However for someone who claims to stick to scripture, you again prove the dishonesty of that claim. Nowhere in scripture is Ananias called an apostle. And if he is an apostle, then he breaks your fake rules of membership and proves apostleship today.

Was Barnabas an apostle? Acts 14:14

 

[Francis Drake]

Any verse that you can show me to support casting demons out of saved persons? Any examples that jesus or paul did that to those who already had been born again?

Jesus makes it explicitly clear that deliverance from demons only works with believers, otherwise they will return.-
Matt12v43Now when the unclean spirit is gone out from the man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and does not find it. 44Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from where I came out.’ And having come, it finds it being unoccupied, and swept, and put in order. 45Then it goes and takes with itself seven other spirits more evil than itself; and having entered in, they dwell there, and the last of that the man becomes worse than the first.

I have been casting demons out of people for 40 years, and never once has a non believer asked for deliverance, why would they?
And if I did cast them out of an unbeliever, there is no defence to stop the demons returning.

This is what Jesus told you to do. -
Mark16v17"These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

And given what He says in Matt12, it can only refer to believers, so why do you still preach against the plain straightforward words of Jesus?

 

[Francis Drake]

Was Barnabas an apostle? Acts 14:14

Of course he was.

 

[Francis Drake]

All that you have given so far is the disputed ending of the Gospel of mark, and you have NEVER presented to us ANY verse that says Christians can be possesses, or need to have demons cast out of them!

You are the one who whines about always sticking to scripture, but now argues against the authenticity of verses that say things you don't like. Ho ho ho, what a pious fraud you are!
Sadly for you, the evidence for the authenticity of those verses is overwhelming, so suck it up and deal with what it says.

And its your job, not mine, to demonstrate from scripture that believers cannot have a demon, something you have never remotely proved.

Nevertheless, here's some good teaching, unless you're going to claim these verses aren't authentic as well. But as already posted, you can find similar in Matthew.-
Luke11v24When the unclean spirit is gone out from the man, it passes through waterless places, seeking rest and not finding any. Then it says, ‘I will return to my house, from where I came out.’ 25And having come, it finds it swept and put in order. 26Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more evil than itself, and having entered, they dwell there; and the last of that man becomes worse than the first.”

If demons can re-enter a nonbeliever 7 times worse, do you seriously imagine we should be driving them out of them.

No, clearly deliverance is to cleanse the enemy out of the habitation of believers.

 

[Francis Drake]

I can claim that the scriptures never indicate that ever needed to happen to a saved person, so its up to you to validate your claim!

VALIDATED EASILY.-
Luke11v24When the unclean spirit is gone out from the man, it passes through waterless places, seeking rest and not finding any. Then it says, ‘I will return to my house, from where I came out.’ 25And having come, it finds it swept and put in order. 26Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more evil than itself, and having entered, they dwell there; and the last of that man becomes worse than the first.”

Its patently obvious from the above that Jesus never drove demons out of unbelievers, when he knew they would be free to return with 7 more even stronger ones.

 

[Billy Evmur]

So answer this question. If i live in a multi million dollar home, while literally children starve to death in Africa, is that love?

When you answer me if it is right to send a preacher out to those people with a gospel that saves them.

 

[Billy Evmur]

God has used in a mighty fashion MANY since time of Christ who suffered from various health and other issues, Spurgeon, far greater preacher than you or I am , suffered with Gout most of his adult life, and doubt that was due to "lack of faith"

He did, I am a lover of Spurgeon and have many volumes of His Pulpit, during the cholera epidemic of London when folk were dropping like flies Spurgeon feared to visit those of his flock who had been contaminated and were dying but being the man of God that He was he resolved to do his duty.

As he did he passed a shop window with a sign that said something to the effect [I am sorry I don't recall exactly] "Fear the Lord and you won't fear cholera" And Spurgeon states that he never doubted from that time that God would keep him safe.

Spurgeon did believe that God heals in answer to prayer, evangelical Christians have always believed it. But they did not believe it as a doctrine, as part of the salvation purchased by blood which it clearly is.

Spurgeon believed things his forefathers never believed in, that does not reflect on his forefathers, the revelation of God is ongoing...But God only reveals what is in the scriptures already.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Paul learned to practice contentment, to experience the presence of the Lord Jesus regardless of having a lot or very little! There is the abundant life indeed for the Christian, but it does not consist of how much money/health/prosperity one has, but that they now have all SPIRITUAL blessings in Christ! Those who teach prosperity really are not teaching NT but OT promises to Israel, and go for it, but just make sure to teach on the curses there also!

This is a precious concession you have unknowingly made.

For we ARE made partakers of the promises and heirs and fellow citizens of the commonwealth of Israel...yet without the law. We have been redeemed from the curse of the law...not the promises. All the promises of God are YEA in Christ to which we say the amen.

God save the WHOLE man, body soul and spirit. But in accordance with our faith.

And if preachers only preach part, by and large we can only have faith for part. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Of course he was.

A secondary, not one of the primary ones!

 

[YeshuaFan]

This is a precious concession you have unknowingly made.

For we ARE made partakers of the promises and heirs and fellow citizens of the commonwealth of Israel...yet without the law. We have been redeemed from the curse of the law...not the promises. All the promises of God are YEA in Christ to which we say the amen.

God save the WHOLE man, body soul and spirit. But in accordance with our faith.

And if preachers only preach part, by and large we can only have faith for part. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

We will receive our inheritance IN FULL at the time of the second coming, not all of it here on earth!

 

[YeshuaFan]

He did, I am a lover of Spurgeon and have many volumes of His Pulpit, during the cholera epidemic of London when folk were dropping like flies Spurgeon feared to visit those of his flock who had been contaminated and were dying but being the man of God that He was he resolved to do his duty.

As he did he passed a shop window with a sign that said something to the effect [I am sorry I don't recall exactly] "Fear the Lord and you won't fear cholera" And Spurgeon states that he never doubted from that time that God would keep him safe.

Spurgeon did believe that God heals in answer to prayer, evangelical Christians have always believed it. But they did not believe it as a doctrine, as part of the salvation purchased by blood which it clearly is.

Spurgeon believed things his forefathers never believed in, that does not reflect on his forefathers, the revelation of God is ongoing...But God only reveals what is in the scriptures already.

Spurgeon believed as I did concerning this issue, as he held that God could still do healings and signs, but that none were gifted as such by God to do them now, and he would have held to the scriptures alone as the revelation from God to us now!

 

[YeshuaFan]

When you answer me if it is right to send a preacher out to those people with a gospel that saves them.

A gospel that saves them is NOT the one that also promises them to have a million dollar house like mine also!

 

[YeshuaFan]

VALIDATED EASILY.-
Luke11v24When the unclean spirit is gone out from the man, it passes through waterless places, seeking rest and not finding any. Then it says, ‘I will return to my house, from where I came out.’ 25And having come, it finds it swept and put in order. 26Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more evil than itself, and having entered, they dwell there; and the last of that man becomes worse than the first.”

Its patently obvious from the above that Jesus never drove demons out of unbelievers, when he knew they would be free to return with 7 more even stronger ones.

You do know that was a figure od speech , right? Not a biblical theology on demonology?

 

[YeshuaFan]

You are the one who whines about always sticking to scripture, but now argues against the authenticity of verses that say things you don't like. Ho ho ho, what a pious fraud you are!
Sadly for you, the evidence for the authenticity of those verses is overwhelming, so suck it up and deal with what it says.

And its your job, not mine, to demonstrate from scripture that believers cannot have a demon, something you have never remotely proved.

Nevertheless, here's some good teaching, unless you're going to claim these verses aren't authentic as well. But as already posted, you can find similar in Matthew.-
Luke11v24When the unclean spirit is gone out from the man, it passes through waterless places, seeking rest and not finding any. Then it says, ‘I will return to my house, from where I came out.’ 25And having come, it finds it swept and put in order. 26Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more evil than itself, and having entered, they dwell there; and the last of that man becomes worse than the first.”

If demons can re-enter a nonbeliever 7 times worse, do you seriously imagine we should be driving them out of them.

No, clearly deliverance is to cleanse the enemy out of the habitation of believers.

There is no ministry in the Bible of someone going around exorcising demons out of real Christians!

 

[Alithis]

One of the biggest areas that satan has got into the church is in Charismatic Chaos though!

Oh that's true enough..but its FAR from the biggest. The RCC has the spiritual deception market monopoly. After all the false charasmatic movement has acknowkedged rome as a mother church and in principle subbitted to it.
It is an absolute travesty.

There is good reason i do not adhere to or attend sunday clubs any more.

 

[Alithis]

I never di seek to be wealthy, not to promote health and wealth as the main reason to be saved!

Yeah but you work a job to maintain your style of life .?

No im not going to judge
All are on a journey into truth but not all want to go where that journey takes them.
Because it Will sooner or later require death to self .

Some have arrogantly quoted on this thread about the need to forsake all to follow Jesus and Be his disciple
I say arrogantly because they themselves are not doing what they quote.
One of the worse measures we can use to judge others is a measure we do not match ourselves. Because it IS the measure that will be used to weigh ourselves on .

People become his disciples as spiritual children
But should grow into maturity.
We dont judge children for stumbling about.
But we do chide a young man for still behaving like a child years later.

In all honesty no one can come to a cessationst conclusion by only reading the scripture.
I have Never met such a person .ALL have been taught to doubt what is plainly written .

And all proclaiming believers must test themselves wether or not they are IN the faith.
The problem is they do that test from thier prefered teachings.
Not from the word of God
And not on thier face before God.

 

[W2L]

When you answer me if it is right to send a preacher out to those people with a gospel that saves them.

Feeding them would save them, they are dying every day. Meanwhile your preacher lives in luxury that you paid for.

 

[Righttruth]

Yes, when He spoke to both Paul and the one that laid hands on Paul, and scales were removed from His eyes and he could see again!

This doesn't answer my question. What did Jesus call of Saul? What did He assign him?

 

[Billy Evmur]

A gospel that saves them is NOT the one that also promises them to have a million dollar house like mine also!

You know.... Jesus promised overflowing return, Paul talked about God's blessing leaping toward us, our resources being multiplied, reaping bounteously what we have sowed.

We are promised green pastures, still waters, oil of joy, being feasted in the presence of our enemies, our cup overflowing....now of course you can spiritualize all that but if the truth were that all was to be suffering and pain and poverty, heartache and loss...He would hardly use that imagery would He.

So why would I envy or displease myself when I see brethren actually enjoying those things?

Now I am not here to stick up for any preacher, before God they must stand. But I AM going to stick up for God's word.

I don't think the church has even scratched the surface.

I pose another question for those who complain about mansions, If I had a world-wide ministry, 100s of 1,000 maybe millions following...would you really want me to live next door to you? man you'd never get a moments peace all the comings and goings cars etc.

I think whatever my preferences might be I would eventually be forced to seek a mansion to live in...like Billy Graham did. He used receive presidents and heads of states.

The evangelist [American, God bless America]through whose ministry I was saved more than 40 years ago, used to preach face to face to hundreds of thousands yet often he and his wife would stay with a brother or sister during meetings. But that was his decision, he still took all the flak other servants of God have to take.

And I have met many who were saved in those meetings in Africa, Uganda and Kenya, once darkest Africa, now Christian nations...they's sending missionaries to England now.

It's a GOOD gospel.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Spurgeon believed as I did concerning this issue, as he held that God could still do healings and signs, but that none were gifted as such by God to do them now, and he would have held to the scriptures alone as the revelation from God to us now!

That is so-ish, there is a real ish there for Spurgeon was the bosom friend of George Muller who as you know managed to build orphanages for thousands and thousands of children without ever asking for a single penny from any man. Yet those kids ALWAYS had their meals, were clothed, cared for with all the care that children need. MIRACLES every day, week in week out over many decades.

We have to acknowledge that Pentecost as we know it today is a new thing, but those miracles and other works including prophecy and word of knowledge were in operation at various times WHEN BELIEVED IN. You know Spurgeon well enough to know that he was known to point out people in the Tabernacle and tell them what they had done wrong.

You will know that he also heard God speak to him audibly on at least one occasion.