The question cessationists must answer.

[Billy Evmur]

We will receive our inheritance IN FULL at the time of the second coming, not all of it here on earth!

God is an ever present help to any who call upon Him

 

[ToBeLoved]

God is an ever present help to any who call upon Him

How does that address our full inheritance?

Scripture says we don’t receive our full inheritance on earth.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Jesus makes it explicitly clear that deliverance from demons only works with believers, otherwise they will return.-
Matt12v43Now when the unclean spirit is gone out from the man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and does not find it. 44Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from where I came out.’ And having come, it finds it being unoccupied, and swept, and put in order. 45Then it goes and takes with itself seven other spirits more evil than itself; and having entered in, they dwell there, and the last of that the man becomes worse than the first.

I have been casting demons out of people for 40 years, and never once has a non believer asked for deliverance, why would they?
And if I did cast them out of an unbeliever, there is no defence to stop the demons returning.

This is what Jesus told you to do. -
Mark16v17"These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

And given what He says in Matt12, it can only refer to believers, so why do you still preach against the plain straightforward words of Jesus?

How do those verses address whether someone is saved or not though the person a demon is cast out of.

Your second verse shows only those saved cast out demons.

But you haven’t shown they can have a demon. A saved person

 

[Francis Drake]

How do those verses address whether someone is saved or not though the person a demon is cast out of.

I am amazed you cannot see the obvious consequences of what Jesus teaches in this scripture.

The preceding verses are all about casting demons out, then Jesus describes what happens to the demon afterwards, if that person is an unbeliever.-
Matt12v43Now when the unclean spirit is gone out from the man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and does not find it. 44Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from where I came out.’ And having come, it finds it being unoccupied, and swept, and put in order.
An "unoccupied" house indicates that the Spirit of the Lord is not there, ie. an unbeliever.

45Then it goes and takes with itself seven other spirits more evil than itself; and having entered in, they dwell there, and the last of that the man becomes worse than the first.
Having no spiritual armour to guard his inner temple, that unbeliever is a ready recipient of a gang of even more powerful demons.

Jesus illustrates that casting demons out of the unregenerate is entirely counterproductive.
Which proves that casting demons out can only done on the saints, as a way to rid them of spiritual uncleanness within their temple.
Essentially, this is about regime change.-

Matt12v28“But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

A man's allegiance to the new King (Jesus) might well be exalted in the inner sanctum of his castle, and the new King's banner displayed on the tower above, but if enemy troops have free run of the courtyard and battlements, the owner of that castle gets little benefit from it.
Deliverance casts out all the unwelcome inhabitants and enables the Lord to establish full possession of his own domain.

But you haven’t shown they can have a demon. A saved person
​

Really?
If Jesus obeyed his own teaching, then he would only have cast demons out of those who were saved, and never have cast demons out of the godless.​

 

[Francis Drake]

A secondary, not one of the primary ones!

You can argue the toss with Jesus, or maybe @Dave L as it was his question.

Primary, secondary, tertiary, I don't care. If anyone then or today is commissioned by Jesus as an apostle, then he is an apostle, whether Jesus has your permission or not.

 

[Francis Drake]

You do know that was a figure od speech , right? Not a biblical theology on demonology?

Wriggle and squirm all you like in your attempts to undermine and negate every scripture you disagree with. Lol

Like countless other stories told by Jesus, Matt12v43 might be allegorical, but it still teaches theological truth, and you are a fool to dismiss it.

Jesus's story inarguably teaches the following facts.-
1). Casting demons out is a fact of life for Christians who follow Jesus.
2). Casting demons out of the unregenerate is wrong and gives the opposite results.
3). Casting demons out must therefore only be done on the saints.

 

[Francis Drake]

There is no ministry in the Bible of someone going around exorcising demons out of real Christians!

But there is abundant testimony throughout the gospels, of Jesus casting demons out. So who were these people he set free? Certainly not unbelievers, they rejected him if you recall!

Jesus taught very clearly in Matthew12 that it is dangerous to cast demons out of the unregenerate.
So if casting demons out of unbelievers is wrong, then it proves that the whole deliverance ministry must be aimed solely at delivering the saints from demonic bondage!

Now you prove otherwise!

 

[Francis Drake]

There is good reason i do not adhere to or attend sunday clubs any more.

Likewise, I've avoided them for the last 12 years.

 

[Francis Drake]

Any verse that you can show me to support casting demons out of saved persons? Any examples that jesus or paul did that to those who already had been born again?

You have no interest in the truth about deliverance, which is why you still refuse to obey Jesus's direct instructions.

But even allowing for your false claim that the end of Mark is not original, throughout his ministry on earth, Jesus cast many demons out and instructed the apostles to do the same.
And scripture shows that it continued among the believers, after Jesus ascended.

And given that the power to cast demons out belongs solely to Christians, (witness the seven sons of Sceva), then your failure to obey is an abdication of responsibility.

Whether you like it or not, you should be casting demons out of either believers, or unbelievers, your choice but get on and do it!

The following definitively proves Jesus cast demons out of believers!
Luke13v10And He was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbaths. 11And behold, a woman having a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and she was bent over and not able to lift herself up to the full. 12And having seen her, Jesus called her near and said to her, “Woman, you have been freed from your sickness.” 13And He laid the hands upon her, and immediately she was made straight and began to glorify God.
You will note that her sickness is caused by a spirit of infirmity.

14And answering, the ruler of the synagogue, indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, was saying to the crowd, “There are six days in which it behooves one to work. Therefore coming, be healed in these, and not on the day of the Sabbath.”
Just like today, the indignant theologians hate every expression of spiritual life because it undermines their theological supremacy!

15Therefore the Lord answered him and said, “Hypocrites! Does not each one of you untie his ox or donkey from the stall on the Sabbath, and having led it away, give it to drink? 16And this, being a daughter of Abraham whom Satan has bound, behold, eighteen years, ought she not to be loosed from this bond on the day of the Sabbath?”

Jesus casts a spirit of infirmity out of a daughter on Abraham.

Son/daughter of Abraham is a definition of a faithful believer, as later stated by Paul.
Gal3v6So also, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” 7Know then that those of faith, these are sons of Abraham.

Jesus would say the same to you cessationists, "Hypocrites, ought not these sons and daughters of Abraham be loosed from their bondages!"

 

[ToBeLoved]

I am amazed you cannot see the obvious consequences of what Jesus teaches in this scripture.

The preceding verses are all about casting demons out, then Jesus describes what happens to the demon afterwards, if that person is an unbeliever.-
Matt12v43Now when the unclean spirit is gone out from the man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and does not find it. 44Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from where I came out.’ And having come, it finds it being unoccupied, and swept, and put in order.
An "unoccupied" house indicates that the Spirit of the Lord is not there, ie. an unbeliever.

45Then it goes and takes with itself seven other spirits more evil than itself; and having entered in, they dwell there, and the last of that the man becomes worse than the first.
Having no spiritual armour to guard his inner temple, that unbeliever is a ready recipient of a gang of even more powerful demons.

Jesus illustrates that casting demons out of the unregenerate is entirely counterproductive.
Which proves that casting demons out can only done on the saints, as a way to rid them of spiritual uncleanness within their temple.
Essentially, this is about regime change.-

Matt12v28“But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

A man's allegiance to the new King (Jesus) might well be exalted in the inner sanctum of his castle, and the new King's banner displayed on the tower above, but if enemy troops have free run of the courtyard and battlements, the owner of that castle gets little benefit from it.
Deliverance casts out all the unwelcome inhabitants and enables the Lord to establish full possession of his own domain.

Really?
If Jesus obeyed his own teaching, then he would only have cast demons out of those who were saved, and never have cast demons out of the godless.​

I think your theology is way off.

The indwelling Holy Spirit, permanently indwelling a believer did not even happen until Pentecost in Acts. AFTER Jesus death

Since this is true, Jesus could not be referring to anyone with the indwelling Holy Spirit because that didn’t even happen yet.

So, IMHO, your theology is very off using verses before the indwelling of the Holy Spirit even happened as proof text.

Very backward. I am amazed that you would consider the gospels proof text for something that occurred after the gospels.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Any verse that you can show me to support casting demons out of saved persons? Any examples that jesus or paul did that to those who already had been born again?

No one could have been born again under the New Covenant until After Jesus death and perfect blood sacrifice and atonement for sin.

The entire premise is wrong.

The indwelling Holy Spirit is the seal of the New Covenant, so the New Covenant had to be implemented to be true.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Oh that's true enough..but its FAR from the biggest. The RCC has the spiritual deception market monopoly. After all the false charasmatic movement has acknowkedged rome as a mother church and in principle subbitted to it.
It is an absolute travesty.

There is good reason i do not adhere to or attend sunday clubs any more.

I do agree with you the RCC is the biggest satanic influence in Christianity today, but the Charismatic Chaos has spread its wof false teachings thru even RCC now!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Yeah but you work a job to maintain your style of life .?

No im not going to judge
All are on a journey into truth but not all want to go where that journey takes them.
Because it Will sooner or later require death to self .

Some have arrogantly quoted on this thread about the need to forsake all to follow Jesus and Be his disciple
I say arrogantly because they themselves are not doing what they quote.
One of the worse measures we can use to judge others is a measure we do not match ourselves. Because it IS the measure that will be used to weigh ourselves on .

People become his disciples as spiritual children
But should grow into maturity.
We dont judge children for stumbling about.
But we do chide a young man for still behaving like a child years later.

In all honesty no one can come to a cessationst conclusion by only reading the scripture.
I have Never met such a person .ALL have been taught to doubt what is plainly written .

And all proclaiming believers must test themselves wether or not they are IN the faith.
The problem is they do that test from thier prefered teachings.
Not from the word of God
And not on thier face before God.

I was a teaching Elder in the AOG, bible institute trained to know Pentacostal doctrines, and I came to where I am at theology wise by carefully searching the scriptures and reading both sides of the arguments, and those who say it ceased in the signs and wonders being given forth makes much better biblical sense to me!

 

[YeshuaFan]

This doesn't answer my question. What did Jesus call of Saul? What did He assign him?

To be the Apostle to the Gentiles, to have same Apostolic status as Peter and the rest of the 12!

 

[YeshuaFan]

That is so-ish, there is a real ish there for Spurgeon was the bosom friend of George Muller who as you know managed to build orphanages for thousands and thousands of children without ever asking for a single penny from any man. Yet those kids ALWAYS had their meals, were clothed, cared for with all the care that children need. MIRACLES every day, week in week out over many decades.

We have to acknowledge that Pentecost as we know it today is a new thing, but those miracles and other works including prophecy and word of knowledge were in operation at various times WHEN BELIEVED IN. You know Spurgeon well enough to know that he was known to point out people in the Tabernacle and tell them what they had done wrong.

You will know that he also heard God speak to him audibly on at least one occasion.

Mueller had the gift of faith from God to trust the Lord to do as he did for His Orphanage, as God gave Him that special gift for that special task, but was not given to everyone!
And Spurgeon NEVER would have seen anything as equal to the scriptures for teaching and preaching and the revelation from God to us!

 

[YeshuaFan]

God is an ever present help to any who call upon Him

True, but John and Paul BOTH looked to the Second Coming as our great hope, not this present life!

 

[YeshuaFan]

I am amazed you cannot see the obvious consequences of what Jesus teaches in this scripture.

The preceding verses are all about casting demons out, then Jesus describes what happens to the demon afterwards, if that person is an unbeliever.-
Matt12v43Now when the unclean spirit is gone out from the man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and does not find it. 44Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from where I came out.’ And having come, it finds it being unoccupied, and swept, and put in order.
An "unoccupied" house indicates that the Spirit of the Lord is not there, ie. an unbeliever.

45Then it goes and takes with itself seven other spirits more evil than itself; and having entered in, they dwell there, and the last of that the man becomes worse than the first.
Having no spiritual armour to guard his inner temple, that unbeliever is a ready recipient of a gang of even more powerful demons.

Jesus illustrates that casting demons out of the unregenerate is entirely counterproductive.
Which proves that casting demons out can only done on the saints, as a way to rid them of spiritual uncleanness within their temple.
Essentially, this is about regime change.-

Matt12v28“But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

A man's allegiance to the new King (Jesus) might well be exalted in the inner sanctum of his castle, and the new King's banner displayed on the tower above, but if enemy troops have free run of the courtyard and battlements, the owner of that castle gets little benefit from it.
Deliverance casts out all the unwelcome inhabitants and enables the Lord to establish full possession of his own domain.

Really?
If Jesus obeyed his own teaching, then he would only have cast demons out of those who were saved, and never have cast demons out of the godless.​

Where in the bible in ANY Epistle did the Apostles command us to cast demons out of people, and again, where does it state ANYWHERE saved were demon possessed? I read once were, then was saved and none left there!

 

[YeshuaFan]

You know.... Jesus promised overflowing return, Paul talked about God's blessing leaping toward us, our resources being multiplied, reaping bounteously what we have sowed.

We are promised green pastures, still waters, oil of joy, being feasted in the presence of our enemies, our cup overflowing....now of course you can spiritualize all that but if the truth were that all was to be suffering and pain and poverty, heartache and loss...He would hardly use that imagery would He.

So why would I envy or displease myself when I see brethren actually enjoying those things?

Now I am not here to stick up for any preacher, before God they must stand. But I AM going to stick up for God's word.

I don't think the church has even scratched the surface.

I pose another question for those who complain about mansions, If I had a world-wide ministry, 100s of 1,000 maybe millions following...would you really want me to live next door to you? man you'd never get a moments peace all the comings and goings cars etc.

I think whatever my preferences might be I would eventually be forced to seek a mansion to live in...like Billy Graham did. He used receive presidents and heads of states.

The evangelist [American, God bless America]through whose ministry I was saved more than 40 years ago, used to preach face to face to hundreds of thousands yet often he and his wife would stay with a brother or sister during meetings. But that was his decision, he still took all the flak other servants of God have to take.

And I have met many who were saved in those meetings in Africa, Uganda and Kenya, once darkest Africa, now Christian nations...they's sending missionaries to England now.

It's a GOOD gospel.

Except the Christian Church Never heard or even taught your version pf that Gospel until the Charismatics such as hagin and Copeland and other WoF plagiarized it from EM Kenyon, metaphysical non Christian!
This is all documented in A Different Gospel by Dan McConell, who is a Charismatic himself, but totally against WoF teaching!

 

[YeshuaFan]

But there is abundant testimony throughout the gospels, of Jesus casting demons out. So who were these people he set free? Certainly not unbelievers, they rejected him if you recall!

Jesus taught very clearly in Matthew12 that it is dangerous to cast demons out of the unregenerate.
So if casting demons out of unbelievers is wrong, then it proves that the whole deliverance ministry must be aimed solely at delivering the saints from demonic bondage!

Now you prove otherwise!

I have state always here that casting out demons from saved persons is not per scripture!

 

[YeshuaFan]

You have no interest in the truth about deliverance, which is why you still refuse to obey Jesus's direct instructions.

But even allowing for your false claim that the end of Mark is not original, throughout his ministry on earth, Jesus cast many demons out and instructed the apostles to do the same.
And scripture shows that it continued among the believers, after Jesus ascended.

And given that the power to cast demons out belongs solely to Christians, (witness the seven sons of Sceva), then your failure to obey is an abdication of responsibility.

Whether you like it or not, you should be casting demons out of either believers, or unbelievers, your choice but get on and do it!

The following definitively proves Jesus cast demons out of believers!
Luke13v10And He was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbaths. 11And behold, a woman having a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and she was bent over and not able to lift herself up to the full. 12And having seen her, Jesus called her near and said to her, “Woman, you have been freed from your sickness.” 13And He laid the hands upon her, and immediately she was made straight and began to glorify God.
You will note that her sickness is caused by a spirit of infirmity.

14And answering, the ruler of the synagogue, indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, was saying to the crowd, “There are six days in which it behooves one to work. Therefore coming, be healed in these, and not on the day of the Sabbath.”
Just like today, the indignant theologians hate every expression of spiritual life because it undermines their theological supremacy!

15Therefore the Lord answered him and said, “Hypocrites! Does not each one of you untie his ox or donkey from the stall on the Sabbath, and having led it away, give it to drink? 16And this, being a daughter of Abraham whom Satan has bound, behold, eighteen years, ought she not to be loosed from this bond on the day of the Sabbath?”

Jesus casts a spirit of infirmity out of a daughter on Abraham.

Son/daughter of Abraham is a definition of a faithful believer, as later stated by Paul.
Gal3v6So also, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” 7Know then that those of faith, these are sons of Abraham.

Jesus would say the same to you cessationists, "Hypocrites, ought not these sons and daughters of Abraham be loosed from their bondages!"

NEVER told in scripture to cast demons out of the saved, and the Gospels and Acts recorded down the transistion period between old and new covenants, as we now are fully into the New One, and the Epistles themselves are our instruction letters, and they say NOTHING about what you keep addressing!