The problem of Objective Morality. and why even biblical speaking it is subjective

[quatona]

My comment wasn't a question, it was calling out those who believe that God used a long period of time to create the earth and universe to qualify their beliefs.

"Evolution is a very slow and painful way to do things, why would an almighty god who can speak anything into existence in a moment take millions of years to do something." (from your post#1143, emphasis added).

 

[Dan1988]

Do you believe that it is possible for someone to believe they are elect but be mistaken?

No, I don't believe that. Every true believer is saved, that's 100% guaranteed. I do believe there are many who falsely profess faith in Christ, they were never saved to begin with.

All true believers know they are saved, God is the One who saves us and He never fails to achieve His goals. He will save every single elect person, He chose us before He created the world and He will not lose a single one of us.

If salvation was left in the hands of men, then nobody would be saved. Every single person was born dead in sins and trespasses, dead people cannot raise themselves to life. Only God can save a person, no amount of good works can save a person who God has not chosen to save.

 

[Dan1988]

"Evolution is a very slow and painful way to do things, why would an almighty god who can speak anything into existence in a moment take millions of years to do something." (from your post#1143, emphasis added).

That's right, you need to answer why an almighty God would take millions of years to do something He can do in a day.

I'm not asking the question to get an answer, I'm asking it to show how stupid the evolutionists are. I know God created the all the stars, planets, earth, man and animals in six days. I know that for a fact, I was responding to those depraved reprobates who think God may have used evolution to create the universe and the earth.

God would never use a stupid thing like evolution to create anything, it's the dumbest theory ever thought up by moronic imbeciles. It's desperate attempt to explain God's creation, it's also very stupid because it doesn't make any sense and it totally unreasonable.

 

[Dan1988]

I said nothing about being called to question, I spoke of choosing to question

My problem with faith is that there is no means of establishing the truth.

You don't have the option of choosing anything, you can only receive what is given to you. All you can question is your capacity to believe the truth, the truth is out there but you will never find it unless God gives it to you. A person needs to recognize the truth when they hear it, that ability is not something one attains by using their intellect.

Your right, you don't have any means of establishing the truth. This world system is ruled by Satan, His main aim is to deceive you so you don't find the truth and end up in hell with Him.

Jesus came to destroy the works of the Devil (Satan), Satan's main weapon is deception. He is happy for you to believe anything except the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus said, "I am the truth" so the truth is a person and His name is Jesus Christ. So if you want to know the truth, ask Him to reveal it to you and He most certainly will.

Most folks say, "I will only believe in God when He comes down and shows Himself". The problem is, He has already done that and He is coming back to judge the world and He will cast all those who don't know Him into hell. All those who don't know Jesus have been deceived by Satan.

The most amazing thing in the world is that the majority choose to spend eternity in hell fire and reject Christ's free offer of eternal paradise.

 

[Dan1988]

Who is this reprobate [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], excuse my ignorance but I don't know any of the so called stars of Hollywood or musicians. I have no time to waste on foolish entertainment, especially when these people are possessed by Demons.

Everyone who succeeds in Hollywood, must sell their soul to the Devil first. I pray for these poor miserable lost souls.

 

[Belk]

Who is this reprobate [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], excuse my ignorance but I don't know any of the so called stars of Hollywood or musicians. I have no time to waste on foolish entertainment, especially when these people are possessed by Demons.

Everyone who succeeds in Hollywood, must sell their soul to the Devil first. I pray for these poor miserable lost souls.

 

[Strathos]

No, I don't believe that. Every true believer is saved, that's 100% guaranteed. I do believe there are many who falsely profess faith in Christ, they were never saved to begin with.

All true believers know they are saved, God is the One who saves us and He never fails to achieve His goals. He will save every single elect person, He chose us before He created the world and He will not lose a single one of us.

If salvation was left in the hands of men, then nobody would be saved. Every single person was born dead in sins and trespasses, dead people cannot raise themselves to life. Only God can save a person, no amount of good works can save a person who God has not chosen to save.

So you're saying that no one who honestly believes that they are saved can be wrong about it?

 

[Ken-1122]

You don't have the option of choosing anything, you can only receive what is given to you.

The fact that I question your claims proves you wrong.

All you can question is your capacity to believe the truth, the truth is out there but you will never find it unless God gives it to you. A person needs to recognize the truth when they hear it, that ability is not something one attains by using their intellect.

So how do you know when you are being lied to?

Your right, you don't have any means of establishing the truth.

Actually I do; using logic and reason rather than faith.

 

[Ed1wolf]

Sure it has, unless you keep moving the goalposts.



Why can't God use evolution as one of His tools?

When did I move the goalposts? God could have used evolution but the evidence both biblical and scientific suggest otherwise.

 

[Strathos]

When did I move the goalposts?

I said ToE is an accurate description of physical reality unless you move the goalposts to redefine your terms.

God could have used evolution but the evidence both biblical and scientific suggest otherwise.

I don't believe it does, as I have studied both biology and theology.

 

[Dave-W]

Why can't God use evolution as one of His tools?

Of course He could. He can use anything.

But "can" is a far cry from "did."

 

[Dan1988]

So you're saying that no one who honestly believes that they are saved can be wrong about it?

That's exactly right, every true believer knows they are saved. That's 100% sure, cast iron guaranteed. Nothing can change that, because the greatest superpower in the universe promised that He would lose none of His elect.

There is no power or Demon or Satan who can change what God decides to do, because there is no greater power than Him. Everything was created by Him and everything is in submission to Him, He gives life to every living creature.

You will stand before Him to give an account of how you lived your life, if Jesus is not your Savior you wil;l be cast into hell fire where you will be tormented day and night forever.

 

[Dan1988]

The fact that I question your claims proves you wrong.

So how do you know when you are being lied to?


Actually I do; using logic and reason rather than faith.

Logic and reason fail every single time, man has been trying to use his reason and logic since the beginning and he has always failed. He is no closer to finding the truth than when he started, 6000 years ago.

Man is wicked to his core. There is no good in man, he has managed to defile the planet with pollution and radiation and cancers and crime and drug addiction and prostitution and AIDS and family breakdown and wars and murder and homosexuality and hatred and starvation of 20,000 children every day and mental illness by prescription medication and suicide and overdose and corrupt government and monetary systems and family members hating each other and false religions and cults and sects and terrorism and child rape and greed and so many other fine qualities of these who use their logic and reason.

The end result of using logic and reason is being cast into hell to scream in the flames for all eternity. You can't say you didn't know or you weren't warned, somebody came and suffered untold pain and agony to save you from hell and if you reject His offer of eternal paradise and choose hell then you only have yourself to blame.

God said, cursed is the man who trusts in himself or other people and blessed is the man who trust in Him. If you rely on your intellect and understanding and reason and logic, you will most certainly get lost in confusion. Your enemy is hell bent on dragging you to hell with Him, He knows He's going to spend eternity burning and He knows He only has a short time so all He can do is deceive as many as He can so they can suffer with Him.

 

[Strathos]

That's exactly right, every true believer knows they are saved. That's 100% sure, cast iron guaranteed. Nothing can change that, because the greatest superpower in the universe promised that He would lose none of His elect.

There is no power or Demon or Satan who can change what God decides to do, because there is no greater power than Him. Everything was created by Him and everything is in submission to Him, He gives life to every living creature.

You will stand before Him to give an account of how you lived your life, if Jesus is not your Savior you wil;l be cast into hell fire where you will be tormented day and night forever.

Why isn't it possible for someone to be 100% sure that they are saved but be wrong? Devout Muslims think they will go to Heaven and are 100% sure about it. And the Bible says that not everyone who professes belief in Christ will go to Heaven (Matthew 7:21 - 23).

 

[Tinker Grey]

One must trust one's self in order to believe that he/she correctly understands what 'god' is conveying.

 

[Dan1988]

Why isn't it possible for someone to be 100% sure that they are saved but be wrong? Devout Muslims think they will go to Heaven and are 100% sure about it. And the Bible says that not everyone who professes belief in Christ will go to Heaven (Matthew 7:21 - 23).

Sorry but you are mistaken, the Muslims can never say they are sure that they are going to heaven. Mohammadism teaches that you obey Allah as the koran teaches to the best of your ability then Allah may accept you into heaven but the koran never teaches that anyone can be sure because nobody knows what they may do tomorrow.

Islam was started by Mohammad, who personally beheaded (murdered) over 950 people. He gathered an army of thieves and murderers who terrorized the middle east and murdered many thousands of people and raped and pillaged entire towns.

Mohammad had sex with children as young as 9 years old so he was also a pedophile, any serious person would quickly realize that this man is a Devil and they would never follow him, but such is the depravity of fallen man that they will follow people like Hitler and Mohammad.

Every religion is man made, Jesus is the only One who proved that he is God by raising people from the dead and performing many other miracles. He also said that he is the "TRUTH", the life and the way to God. He said there was no other way to God apart from Him.

He said if there was another way, He would have told us about it. So everyone will be without excuse when they sand before God on judgement day, nobody will be able to say "I never knew" because Jesus commanded His followers to go into the whole world and teach everyone what he taught them.

 

[Dan1988]

One must trust one's self in order to believe that he/she correctly understands what 'god' is conveying.

Dear Sir, God said trust not in yourself. God said, trust in Me and deny yourself. He said the heart of man is wicked above all things, who is to know it. You are asking the man to trust in the most wicked thing in the world.

God said, the man who trusts in his understanding is cursed. he said this because Satan and His Demons have gone out into the whole world to deceive everyone. They have been deceiving people for the past 6000 years, so they have mastered the art of deception.

You may be an extremely intelligent man, but they are infinitely more intelligent so you are no match for them. The only way we can avoid being deceived b y them is to believe and trust in Jesus, He is the only One who defeated them.

 

[Ken-1122]

Not necessarily, facts dont always convince people if it goes against their agenda look at the Democratic party and CNN and the so-called "Russian collusion" scandal.

I'm not talking about politicians who care more about agendas than facts; I/m talking about scientists where facts are everything. If you have facts on your side you will be taken seriously.

There is no such thing as Science, there is only science and scientists.

You jokin' right? So..... what's the difference between science and science?

For theoretical science, most conclusions ARE opinion. Only empirical science is not based on opinion. You do know the difference dont you?

I'm talking about scientific claims that has the respect of the scientific community because it has gone through and survived the peer review process.

A function is a mathematical value, not necessarily a real thing. The equations produce a point of infinite density, it does not mean that the singularity is infinite. It has no dimensions, so most likely it is nothing.

What are you talking about? If the singularity were nothing, the Universe would be nothing as well! Obviously the singularity was something.

Huh? How is that logical? There has to be a logical connection between the two events for there to be logical reasoning. That is what logical reasoning means.

In my scenario, it is logical to me because my house was never broken into till they moved in next door. Logic is subjective; just because something is logical to me doesn't mean it is logical to you or anyone else.

No, He did want animals to die so we would know what death was and also so His complex ecosystems on the earth would work, but not humans. He gave us the ability to learn to control our reproduction or learn to travel to other planets and populate them.

Where in the bible does it say God wanted the animals to die, but not humans? Also even if the animals did die, without humans dying, do you see the problem with overpopulation that would eventually be caused by constant birth without death?
Also if God wanted us to explore other planets, why did he make the rest of the Universe hostile to human life?

No, death was not necessary originally only after we rebelled against Him then we had to die for our sins. But it definitely IS necessary for the atheistic evolutionist perspective as I have demonstrated earlier in this thread just for us to exist.

Death is necessary in any situation where new life is allowed. If you don't have death, you can't have new life. Remember; for as long as Adam and Eve were in the Garden, they never had any children; then as soon as they left the Garden, they started having children like there was no tomorrow.

 

[Strathos]

Sorry but you are mistaken, the Muslims can never say they are sure that they are going to heaven. Mohammadism teaches that you obey Allah as the koran teaches to the best of your ability then Allah may accept you into heaven but the koran never teaches that anyone can be sure because nobody knows what they may do tomorrow.

Doesn't stop them from claiming it though. Lots of people don't read their own holy books.

Islam was started by Mohammad, who personally beheaded (murdered) over 950 people. He gathered an army of thieves and murderers who terrorized the middle east and murdered many thousands of people and raped and pillaged entire towns.

Mohammad had sex with children as young as 9 years old so he was also a pedophile, any serious person would quickly realize that this man is a Devil and they would never follow him, but such is the depravity of fallen man that they will follow people like Hitler and Mohammad.

People will follow anyone or anything if they are raised to believe in it. And that's my main point here - the issue of belief. People can convince themselves to the point where they are 100% certain about something and still be wrong.

Every religion is man made, Jesus is the only One who proved that he is God by raising people from the dead and performing many other miracles. He also said that he is the "TRUTH", the life and the way to God. He said there was no other way to God apart from Him.

I agree. My point is, though, that people who follow other religions (and even Christians who have slightly different doctrines than you or I) can still be, and often are, convinced that they are correct.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Dear Sir, God said trust not in yourself.

How do you know that? Do you trust your judgment for knowing that?

God said, trust in Me and deny yourself. He said the heart of man is wicked above all things, who is to know it.

How do you know that? Do you trust your judgment for knowing that?

You are asking the man to trust in the most wicked thing in the world.

I'm saying you have no choice.

God said, the man who trusts in his understanding is cursed. he said this because Satan and His Demons have gone out into the whole world to deceive everyone. They have been deceiving people for the past 6000 years, so they have mastered the art of deception.

How do you know that? Do you trust your judgment for knowing that?

You may be an extremely intelligent man, but they are infinitely more intelligent so you are no match for them. The only way we can avoid being deceived b y them is to believe and trust in Jesus, He is the only One who defeated them.

How do you know that? Do you trust your judgment for knowing that?