The Press Declares the Alt:Right to be Bigotted and Terrorist

[Ringo84]

The press would be correct.
Ringo

 

[Rion]

Then why, when I asked you if you were a member of the NRA, your answer was:

After this, you asked me if I'm a Christian. What connection were you attempting to make?

Seems to be suggesting that NRA members aren't real Christians.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

Seems to be suggesting that NRA members aren't real Christians.

I agree with you on this Rion. Is not up to man to decide who is "real" Christian. I run into same thing when I point out KKK is Christian organization. Many make claim they not "real" Christians.

 

[Aldebaran]

I agree with you on this Rion. Is not up to man to decide who is "real" Christian. I run into same thing when I point out KKK is Christian organization. Many make claim they not "real" Christians.

Why do you make that claim?

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

Why do you make that claim?

I never made such a claim. So not sure why you would say this thing.

Is KKK who claim they are Christian organization. I also notice that many Christians on this site defend Trump regarding his defending of KKK and Nazis. So is not very out of place idea.

Trump has long history of racist behavior well documented and discussed and many Christians support. Maybe you unfamiliar with actions Trump has taken recently which make White Supremacists and KKK very happy. Here are a few: These include defending Nazis and KKK. Giving pardon to racist sheriff. Attacking Puerto Rico after flood. Muslim travel ban. Attacking black athletes. Attacking Mexicans. And yet many many Christians on this site support Trump.

Is not surprising because White Supremacists like KKK are significant part of Trump base and Trump know without their support he in big trouble.

I cannot put link to site for I would break rules of forum but you can google WHITE CAMELIA KNIGHTS of the KU KLUX KLAN to see KKK website where they have plenty to say about they are good Christians.

 

[Aldebaran]

I never made such a claim. So not sure why you would say this thing.

Look at the bold part of what I quoted you as saying in #124. You made the claim.

Trump has long history of racist behavior well documented and discussed and many Christians support. Maybe you unfamiliar with actions Trump has taken recently which make White Supremacists and KKK very happy. Here are a few: These include defending Nazis and KKK. Giving pardon to racist sheriff. Attacking Puerto Rico after flood. Muslim travel ban. Attacking black athletes. Attacking Mexicans. And yet many many Christians on this site support Trump.

Now you're simply repeating MSM Leftist talking points.

 

[Ringo84]

Bleating about "MSM leftist talking points" when Trump blathered about "violence on many sides" after Charlottesville is weak sauce. Why defend Nazis?
Ringo

 

[Aldebaran]

Bleating about "MSM leftist talking points" when Trump blathered about "violence on many sides" after Charlottesville is weak sauce. Why defend Nazis?
Ringo

I didn't know that pointing out Yonny's mentionings about the MSM's favorite talking points meant that I defend Nazis. But then again, that's just another Leftist tactic right there. If someone says something they don't agree with, you make an accusation that I'm then expected to defend against.

 

[Ringo84]

Well, I mean...when you whine about "talking points" when Yonny is correctly pointing out the fact that the alt-reichers in Charlottesville were marching with swastikas, I'm not sure how the accusation of defending Nazis can be avoided.

Maybe I'm missing something. I just don't understand this impulse among some members of this forum to immediately jump to what sounds to my ears like the defense of people who chanted "Jews will not replace us". Is it a form of denial - you can't believe these people are emboldened, so those who claim they're Nazis must be wrong?
Ringo

 

[Ringo84]

I'm not saying you're a Nazi. I doubt that anyone here on CF is a Nazi, because nobody here is that dumb or broken. But some of the rhetoric about "MSM leftist talking points" and "b-b-but antifa broke a window in Berkeley!" have sounded like trying to give Nazis cover.

The KKK self-identifies as Christian, if I'm not mistaken. So please: help us understand where you're coming from.
Ringo

 

[Aldebaran]

Well, I mean...when you whine about "talking points" when Yonny is correctly pointing out the fact that the alt-reichers in Charlottesville were marching with swastikas, I'm not sure how the accusation of defending Nazis can be avoided.

Here's what I was referring to:

Maybe you unfamiliar with actions Trump has taken recently which make White Supremacists and KKK very happy. Here are a few: These include defending Nazis and KKK. Giving pardon to racist sheriff. Attacking Puerto Rico after flood. Muslim travel ban. Attacking black athletes. Attacking Mexicans. And yet many many Christians on this site support Trump.

Just a bunch of talking points that would need to be corrected one by one because they're just a bunch of unsubstantiated accusations.

Maybe I'm missing something. I just don't understand this impulse among some members of this forum to immediately jump to what sounds to my ears like the defense of people who chanted "Jews will not replace us". Is it a form of denial - you can't believe these people are emboldened, so those who claim they're Nazis must be wrong?
Ringo

I'll try to explain it as best I can, although I did so at the time that story was new and it didn't do any good at that time.
My position isn't to defend Nazis or White Supremecists. My main issue at the time is that there was a rally that those people had a permit for, and then some demonstrators showed up and violence broke out on both sides against each other. When the president spoke out against the violence itself, the news media had a problem with the fact that he didn't take sides with the protesters and just blame one side for all the violence that happened. Since that time, we've seen increased activity and violence from groups such as Antifa, which seems to have been emboldened by tolerance from the media since it's seldom reported what they do, and is hardly ever condemned by them.

If groups are going to go out and do demonstrations and counter-demonstrations, then violence should certainly not be a part of it. Furthermore, if two sides are going to be violent against each other, it's not the place of the president or any politician to take sides as if violence against one group is wrong while violence against another is ok. I don't believe the MSM should be taking such a stance either.

 

[Ringo84]

Here's what I was referring to:

Just a bunch of talking points that would need to be corrected one by one because they're just a bunch of unsubstantiated accusations.

These are all pretty well substantiated. All it takes is a five minute (or less) Google search.

I'll try to explain it as best I can, although I did so at the time that story was new and it didn't do any good at that time.
My position isn't to defend Nazis or White Supremecists. My main issue at the time is that there was a rally that those people had a permit for, and then some demonstrators showed up and violence broke out on both sides against each other. When the president spoke out against the violence itself, the news media had a problem with the fact that he didn't take sides with the protesters and just blame one side for all the violence that happened. Since that time, we've seen increased activity and violence from groups such as Antifa, which seems to have been emboldened by tolerance from the media since it's seldom reported what they do, and is hardly ever condemned by them.

If groups are going to go out and do demonstrations and counter-demonstrations, then violence should certainly not be a part of it. Furthermore, if two sides are going to be violent against each other, it's not the place of the president or any politician to take sides as if violence against one group is wrong while violence against another is ok. I don't believe the MSM should be taking such a stance either.

All right. Fair enough. I don't agree, but I appreciate the explanation. Genuinely.

I do get where you're coming from, but I don't think this country should be a safe space for the white supremacy of people like Spencer or Kessler. Punching them may not be the best way to handle it (ignoring them while shining a bright light on what they've actually said is probably the best Nazi disinfectant), but when people like that invade your home town and run people over with cars, I can definitely understand the impulse to knock them around.

Trump should have come out strongly and unequivocally against white supremacy, though. The fact that he didn't seems to indicate that he knows where his bread is buttered - this is a large-ish part of his base (not all of it, but a big component of it). That kind of stuff should not have a place in American society at all. We defeated people like this is WW2. They should be thrown onto the dustbin of history like all the other historical losers.
Ringo

 

[Aldebaran]

All right. Fair enough. I don't agree, but I appreciate the explanation. Genuinely.

I do get where you're coming from, but I don't think this country should be a safe space for the white supremacy of people like Spencer or Kessler. Punching them may not be the best way to handle it (ignoring them while shining a bright light on what they've actually said is probably the best Nazi disinfectant), but when people like that invade your home town and run people over with cars, I can definitely understand the impulse to knock them around.

Well, like I said, I don't condone violence. But saying that this country shouldn't be a safe space for anyone can give some people the impression that it's open season on people of certain beliefs, and that it's ok to use violence against them. That's what I'm afraid the MSM is pretty much doing.

Trump should have come out strongly and unequivocally against white supremacy, though. The fact that he didn't seems to indicate that he knows where his bread is buttered - this is a large-ish part of his base (not all of it, but a big component of it). That kind of stuff should not have a place in American society at all. We defeated people like this is WW2. They should be thrown onto the dustbin of history like all the other historical losers.
Ringo

We also defeated the Communists in the Cold War, but we still have groups in this country who proudly use that name. But to address your point about White Supremacists, I'm sure there are groups that voted for Trump on a basis of him simply being closer to their beliefs and values without actually being "in that camp", so to speak. For example, Trump ran on the Republican ticket against Hillary Clinton, and the Republican side is the one that most closely represents values that Christians do. That doesn't mean Trump is a Christian, but still Christians voted for him due to what he said he'd do. In the same vein, Obama never openly said he sided with black militant groups. However, he did get the vast majority of black votes because black people thought he would represent them due to his being black himself. Those in black supremacy groups no doubt were fans of Obama because they thought he represented them more than a white person who is a Republican would. That wouldn't make Obama a black supremacist though, but if he has followers that are, it would certainly make him look that way as well.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

Now you're simply repeating MSM Leftist talking points.

These are called "facts" by educated world.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

I didn't know that pointing out Yonny's mentionings about the MSM's favorite talking points meant that I defend Nazis.

Please do not tell untruth. I never said you defend Nazis. I did not mean that you defend Nazis.

But if you defend Trump then you defend someone who defend Nazis and KKK because Trump defend Nazis and KKK. That is a fact and it is not very complicated. Sorry that maybe you do not like that fact but it is reality regardless.

And to call "MSM talking point" as if this not true is utter nonsense. Entire Presidential Committee on the Arts and Humanities resigned and in resignation letter said this is why they resign. Again I sorry you not like reality and facts but that is what you are trying to deny.

 

[Ringo84]

Well, like I said, I don't condone violence. But saying that this country shouldn't be a safe space for anyone can give some people the impression that it's open season on people of certain beliefs, and that it's ok to use violence against them. That's what I'm afraid the MSM is pretty much doing.

I don't either. What I really mean with the 'safe space' remarks is that Nazism like this shouldn't be acceptable in modern day America. I don't necessarily mean that their First Amendment rights should be eliminated, but something culturally and politically needs to change so that we see less of this stuff.

However, I do think that the people of Charlottesville, VA were justified in protecting themselves and their city from the violent thugs who swarmed there in August.

We also defeated the Communists in the Cold War, but we still have groups in this country who proudly use that name. But to address your point about White Supremacists, I'm sure there are groups that voted for Trump on a basis of him simply being closer to their beliefs and values without actually being "in that camp", so to speak. For example, Trump ran on the Republican ticket against Hillary Clinton, and the Republican side is the one that most closely represents values that Christians do. That doesn't mean Trump is a Christian, but still Christians voted for him due to what he said he'd do. In the same vein, Obama never openly said he sided with black militant groups. However, he did get the vast majority of black votes because black people thought he would represent them due to his being black himself. Those in black supremacy groups no doubt were fans of Obama because they thought he represented them more than a white person who is a Republican would. That wouldn't make Obama a black supremacist though, but if he has followers that are, it would certainly make him look that way as well.

This seems like several things at once:

1. A back door way of claiming the mantle of "Christian values" (with a president who brags about groping women, makes fun of the handicapped, calls Mexicans rapists, etc)
2. A spurious way of criticizing antifa through the "Communist" label, which doesn't really fly since they're a diverse group of people
3. A back door way of making spurious claims about Obama
Ringo

 

[Rion]

Why do you make that claim?

I don't either. What I really mean with the 'safe space' remarks is that Nazism like this shouldn't be acceptable in modern day America. I don't necessarily mean that their First Amendment rights should be eliminated, but something culturally and politically needs to change so that we see less of this stuff.

However, I do think that the people of Charlottesville, VA were justified in protecting themselves and their city from the violent thugs who swarmed there in August.

Glad to hear that you've changed your mind on preventing them from speaking and physically assaulting any that you see.

 

[Aldebaran]

These are called "facts" by educated world.

If you mean "college educated", then I won't argue with you. The universities are where young minds get indoctrinated with Liberal viewpoints--even to the point where they believe that anything said by the MSM is automatically assumed to be a "fact".

 

[Aldebaran]

Please do not tell untruth. I never said you defend Nazis. I did not mean that you defend Nazis.

I was answering a question by Ringo. See the quote in post #128. I answered his question with truth.

But if you defend Trump then you defend someone who defend Nazis and KKK because Trump defend Nazis and KKK. That is a fact and it is not very complicated. Sorry that maybe you do not like that fact but it is reality regardless.

He took a neutral stance rather than take sides. Sorry if you think not taking sides as the MSM does means you're defending the other side.

 

[Aldebaran]

I don't either. What I really mean with the 'safe space' remarks is that Nazism like this shouldn't be acceptable in modern day America. I don't necessarily mean that their First Amendment rights should be eliminated, but something culturally and politically needs to change so that we see less of this stuff.

However, I do think that the people of Charlottesville, VA were justified in protecting themselves and their city from the violent thugs who swarmed there in August.

That's not what liberals seem to think is acceptable these days. They seem to think it's just fine to not only shout someone down that they don't agree with in order to keep them from speaking, they also won't allow those who are there to hear what he has to say. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ted-down-university-florida-speech/781966001/