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Featured The Major Discrepancy Between Ezekiel and Johns New Jerusalem.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Daniel Martinovich, Nov 25, 2017.

  1. iwbswiaihl

    iwbswiaihl Newbie

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    When the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven to the new earth could it not be that the bride of Christ being the church is inside the New Jerusalem, the temple of the Lord and the saints, being the bride are the ones with Him in the New Jerusalem.
     
  2. Winken

    Winken Heimat Supporter

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    I seriously doubt that "air" will be a problem.......
     
  3. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    This entire argument totally neglects the two future times clearly delineated in Revelation 20. In that chapter we have, clearly stated, the first resurrection, THEN a reign which lasts 1000 years, THEN a final rebellion and the destruction of the earth, THEN new heavens and a new earth. In regard to this clearly stated sequence, whether the thousand years is literal of figurative is immaterial. The point is that two DIFFERENT future kingdoms are clearly specified. So the imagined "discrepancies" simply do not exist.

    Likewise, the OP and a few other posts here, assume that only one attack by Gog and Magig is mentioned in Bible prophecy. But that is a rank and baseless assumption. The historical books of the Bible contain accounts of multiple nations that have attacked more than a single time. And there is zero basis for assuming that this will not happen again in the future.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
  4. Daniel Martinovich

    Daniel Martinovich Friend Supporter

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    Except the fact, as you teach, that Gog and Magog are destroyed Right before, as you teach that second kingdom.... that you teach. Which is exactly the same sequence of events, as you teach, in Ezekiel and Revelation. Can’t you find a better way to complicate the obvious?
     
  5. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    You are arguing about what we teach, when you actually have no idea what we teach. You can go back and search everything I have ever posted, and you will not find a single statement about Gog and Magog being destroyed. Ezekiel 38 and 39 do not say Gog and Magog will be destroyed, but that the invading army it leads will be destroyed, leaving but its sixth part. And Revelation 20 does not just say that the army led by Gog and Magog will be destroyed, but that the entire earth will be destroyed at the time of that attack. The two attacks could hardly be more different.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
  6. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    You are free to make a case against the Millennium if you like but you will have a 1000 years to rethink it. You have made one error in your assumption of the the new Jerusalem being a cube. You see the definition is the length, width and height are the same. A pyramid can also have these features and it would seem all the ancient religions and current Illuminati types are using this image for the coming of their kingdom and perhaps it was ripped of from something already revealed to them.

    The Temple Ezekiel sees is the one that will stand during the Millennium. What kind of service will be held in those days I do not know but I already agree that there will be no sin offering as Jesus is going to be both king and priest. The Bible very clearly speaks of a literal kingdom on earth, In Rev 20
    1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

    In this portion there is a time when Satan is bound and the nations are not deceived until he is loosed and the given time is 1000 years. Furthermore the passage goes on
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[fn] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

    The faithful dead are raised and reign with Jesus 1000 year. At the end of this period we see what happens when Satan is loosed.
    7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

    You see the chronology is set the beast and false prophet are still in lake of fire and have been 1000 years. The beast and false prophet arise during the 7 year tribulation. Gog and Magog are demonic names for the principalities mentioned in Ezekiel 38 and these events are 1000 years apart.
    You have a 7 year tribulation with the abomination of desolation as the midpoint and then the 2nd coming at Armegeddon. This is where the antichrist and false prophet are condemned and Satan is bound and the dead in Christ live and reign with Him. Daniel 7 points this out too.

    11 “I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.
    13 “I was watching in the night visions,
    And behold, One like the Son of Man,
    Coming with the clouds of heaven!
    He came to the Ancient of Days,
    And they brought Him near before Him.
    14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
    That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
    His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
    Which shall not pass away,
    And His kingdom the one
    Which shall not be destroyed.

    In verse 11 the beast is slain and its body given to the flame and the rest of the beasts had their dominion taken away yet their lives were prolonged a season and a time. This season is being bound 1000 years and the time is the short window when they are loosed. You see they lost their dominion and do not get it back. In Rev the angels sing out the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdom of our LORD and his Christ and he shall rule forever. This transfer happens at the 2nd coming which Daniel speaks here of his everlasting dominion. In Zech 14 we see the 2nd coming of Jesus very clear. It says in that chapter That the LORD comes with His saints and that the MT of Olives Splits in two creating a new valley and a river. It says in that day the LORD is King over all the earth and that He has melted the enemies. It shows that from this point on all nations must come and keep the feast of Tabernacles or they get no rain. This shows a continuation of events on earth after the LORD becomes king over all the earth. It shows He has not taken this kingdom until this day when He comes with his saints.

    This is a long reply but really just a micro fraction of all the scriptures that support this chronology. What happens in the Temple should not be of prime concern as Jesus will be running it so I trust it will be glorious and pure.
     
  7. Daniel Martinovich

    Daniel Martinovich Friend Supporter

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    Sure, if you want to ignore that Revelation 21:9 directly calls the city the bride of Christ. Doesn't do away with the major contradictions about it between Ezekiel, John and some of the other prophets if it was talking about an actual city. None of them contradict each other though if a city is being used illustratively to speak of Gods saints in an age of promise. Like Isaiah in these three chapters. The Apostle Paul even declares these chapters to be speaking about he New Jerusalem yet they are talking about Gods saint's. Se for yourself on the link. It will really open your eyes to this.

    The Bride of Christ

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Daniel Martinovich

    Daniel Martinovich Friend Supporter

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    Sooo.... you just said God and Magog will be totally destroyed by saying the entire earth will be destroyed. Back at square one. The giant contradictions between Ezekiel and John not to speak of the other prophets if the New Jerusalem the Bride of Christ is a literal city rather than an illustration of Gods people in an age of promise. Which if so takes away all the contradictions because God throughout the scripture uses different illustrations with different prophets to prophesy the same future. Really as simple as that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
  9. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The New Jerusalem is the size of the Arab continental plate. When Jesus returns and His feet hit the ground there will be an earthquake and the earth will split the east from the west and North from the south. Now all of this can be verified with our understanding of plate tectonics. They also have all the air rights and all the mineral rights that goes along with the land.

    This is the land promised to Abraham and His descendants. (Sarah & Hagar) The part of the land that Abraham actually walked is called the Fertile Crescent and as it's name implies this land is very fertile and productive. This is a land that is flowing with milk and honey. As Christians we are adopted into the family. We are wild branches grafted into a cultivated tree.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
  10. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    I agree and the 1,500 mile high city will not exist in anything but literature.
     
  11. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Actually if you read Cahn's book: The Paradigm - Shadow and types in the Bible are very exact and precise.
     
  12. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Go ahead and put an airplane or a missile in their airspace today and see if you get a reaction out of them. They shot down quite a few missiles during the Gulf war.
     
  13. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    :ebil:
     
  14. Daniel Martinovich

    Daniel Martinovich Friend Supporter

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    Oh well, if you put 12' high floors in it that only makes 600 billion square miles of floor space. Big woop.

    Really? So the Temple in ancient Israel is really not a foreshadow of the true temple of God which is his people. The Temple and Tabernacle of God But in your reality the people of God are really just symbolic of a physical temple of God in what you call the Millennial reign?

    Luke 17: 20-21 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God does not come with observation, (visibly): Nor shall they say, Look here! or, look there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is inside you. What Is The Government Of God?

    What I see there is highly illustrative language meant to deceive those who refuse to acknowledge all the other places the Bible interprets its own prophecy

    That is interpreted by the Bible itself as the age of the four empires: Babylon, Medo\Persia, Greece and Roman. Ended in 1453 AD when what had been the capitol of the Roman Empire since 333 AD; Constantinople fell.
    Daniel Martinovich Ministries
    Stranger than fiction that was also the exact year the first commercial European printing press went on line and within a few decades for the first time in human history the Bible got into the hands of the general public in Northern Europe, (illegally.) That led to their transformation cultural and nationally which also led to something that had not happened since Ancient Israel. The powers that be raised an army to wipe out the cancer and couldn't do it. Hence we got the free world were another thing has happened for the first time in human history. All the earthly promises of God made to a thousand generations of saints. Promises that never came to pass in their generations have been coming to pass in nations who are influenced by the the Gospel, the Word and his invisible government. Nations that have meet the conditions that is. This is growing. It has ups and downs but never the less the trend since that forth empire fell, as prophesied, is upwards.

    The Greek word for second does not even appear in the same sentence with the geek word for coming in the entire New Testament. Its made up. There are multiple times in the Old Testament when there was a prophecy of the Lords coming in great days of judgment about Old Testament days that were then later recorded in the OT as fulfilled prophecy. There are multiple prophecies in the New Testament about different days of judgment when the lord would literally\phyically come down to earth. Also fulfilled. He still is doing this and will continue doing it for however long the earth continues.


    You know what you are missing out on? The well over one hundred chapters of prophecy that speak of the age of promise. This age where the Gospel, the Word of God and the Government of God are slowly but surly transforming the world. A far greater body of prophecy size wise than all the end time prophecy of the last two ages. Yet you preach one thing and the opposite is happening. Even with all the evil opposing it. His invisible governments influence grows and grows in the affairs of men.
    Daniel Martinovich Ministries
     
  15. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    What's your solution?

    I am reminded of the young officers who always posed problems to me. I told them to come back when they had a proposed problem statement and courses of action.

    So how do you tackle the Jerusalem and Temple clearly revealed which Joel Osteen is probably selling deeds to?
     
  16. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Ezekiel 47:12 King James Version (KJV)
    12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

    Revelation 22:1-5 King James Version (KJV)
    22 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

    2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

    4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

    5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.


    Ezekiel does not have the tree of life. There's probably a good reason.

    The millennial Kingdom on earth (Revelation 20) will be a type for the eternal. God has some history doing the types and shadows of what is to come.
     
  17. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    What Bible version are you using. There is no tree of life in Ezekiel 47:12.
     
  18. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Interesting. Would like to see your exegesis of the comparison.
     
  19. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    The suspense is deafening in your posts. Why don't you just tell us you have it all figured out and expound?
     
  20. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Keep reading in Isiah 65. There's some aging and death going on. Don't think the eternal kingdom has death.
     
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