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Featured The Major Discrepancy Between Ezekiel and Johns New Jerusalem.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Daniel Martinovich, Nov 25, 2017.

  1. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Debatable. With 55 million murdered human beings since 1973, the US and western world has too much innocent blood on their hands. For your theory to have merit it will have to come from China, the Middle East or Africa or all of the above. The only pure church is the persecuted church.
     
  2. Daniel Martinovich

    Daniel Martinovich Friend Supporter

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    Means this: James 3:1-2 Be not many of you teachers, my brethren, knowing that we shall receive heavier judgment. For in many things we all stumble. If any stumbleth not in word, the same is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body also.
    Figure that one out.
     
  3. Daniel Martinovich

    Daniel Martinovich Friend Supporter

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    Not debatable tonight. Off to bed with me. Have to be up early to work.
     
  4. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    This is an internet chat site. Teaching here is presumptuous. Better off doing seminars.

    But you did preface some of your posts as "just give this some thought." For that is always appreciated.
     
  5. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    When did the above happen? Your comments skipped this half verse and went on to the good stuff.
     
  6. God bless Joshua

    God bless Joshua Well-Known Member

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    What Ezekiel has shown us is the coming Jerusalem in Jesus Millennium which is just the shadow of things to come in New Jerusalem of Revelation which is in the new earth and new heaven.
     
  7. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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  8. thesunisout

    thesunisout growing in grace Supporter

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    You're talking about amillennialisn, right?
     
  9. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Ezekiel 47:12 & Revelation 22:1-5 are the same place, "The Eternal Kingdom" :)

    The river and tree of life are present, fruit from the tree every month, fruit not consumed "Eternal", a leaf that does not fade "Eternal", leaves of the tree for healing/medicine, water flows from the throne/sanctuary?

    You deny the account of Ezekiel 47:12 is the eternal river, eternal tree of life?

    "I'm smiling right now" :)

    Jesus Christ Is The Lord

    Truth7t7
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  10. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    The lens you see scripture through will determine your eschatology. We certainly see things in a different light as you have addressed some of my ideas but in reality did a poor job of proving that my lens is wrong and yours is right. The small sampling of scriptures I cited linked scripture to show a timeline that was not vague but very specific and your arguments raise a few questions but have not defeated the timeline of events and the observations I have made. The Rev 20 passage clearly shows that the dead are raised in Christ and reign with Him 1000 years and Satan is bound this entire time and that the antichrist and false prophet are in the lake of fire for this entire 1000 years and after it is over Satan is loosed and put down then the rest of the dead are raised and appear before the great white throne and after that the New Jerusalem comes down and so I ask you how is this allegorical? You do notice that this thousand years period beings with a distinction to those who did not take the mark of the beast. So the time when the abomination of desolation occurs and the mark of the beast is then enforced is the time that sees the transition when Satan is bound and the kingdom comes to earth. If you try to look at it literally you would agree with me.

    The law of the prophets said a prophet must be correct and if what the prophet says does not happen he has spoken presumptuously and that prophet shall be stoned. Peter says no prophecy is of any private interpretation but men spoke as God moved them. This is how I see the rules of interpretation. I showed Zechariah 14 and Daniel 7 linking them to Rev 20 and looking at them as what they said will happen and I put no private interpretation on them. I can ad hundreds of other prophecies in this same scenario and interpreted with these same rules and they work harmoniously together.


    Furthermore the current events have the world gone mad and Israel and Jerusalem are at the center of geo political tension. The nation of Israel is back and the return of the temple has been prepared for. So if this stuff is not future but past when has Satan been bound? Who was the beast and false prophet are there not supposed to be two witnesses who oppose them for 42 months? The UN agenda 21 NWO order is coming and a well though out global conspiracy as psalm 2 states.
    Why do the nations rage,
    And the people plot a vain thing?
    2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
    And the rulers take counsel together,
    Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying,
    3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces
    And cast away Their cords from us.”
    4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
    The Lord shall hold them in derision.
    5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
    And distress them in His deep displeasure:
    6 “Yet I have set My King
    On My holy hill of Zion.”
    7 “I will declare the decree:
    The LORD has said to Me,
    ‘You are My Son,
    Today I have begotten You.
    8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
    The nations for Your inheritance,
    And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
    9 You shall break[fn] them with a rod of iron;
    You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ ”
    10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings;
    Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
    11 Serve the LORD with fear,
    And rejoice with trembling.
    12 Kiss the Son,[fn] lest He[fn] be angry,
    And you perish in the way,
    When His wrath is kindled but a little.
    Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.

    The nations are certainly plotting out a new global government. They are casting off the bonds of Christianity and He will set His king on his holy hill in Zion.

    Hosea predicted the return of the kingdom would come at the time of the return of the sacrifice after many days without either.
    4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. 5 Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They shall fear the LORD and His goodness in the latter days.

    Acts 1 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.

    Jesus before Pilate in John
    Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

    Note that article but now my kingdom is not from here...

    Isiaah
    For unto us a Child is born,
    Unto us a Son is given;
    And the government will be upon His shoulder.
    And His name will be called
    Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
    7 Of the increase of His government and peace
    There will be no end,
    Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
    To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
    From that time forward, even forever.
    The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

    Is the throne of David a heavenly throne? Luke 1 Zacharias speaks by the Holy Spirit and declares of Jesus
    67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:
    68 “Blessed is the Lord God of Israel,
    For He has visited and redeemed His people,
    69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us
    In the house of His servant David,
    70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets,
    Who have been since the world began,
    71 That we should be saved from our enemies
    And from the hand of all who hate us,
    72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers
    And to remember His holy covenant,
    73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham:
    74 To grant us that we,
    Being delivered from the hand of our enemies,
    Might serve Him without fear,
    75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life.

    Go back look at Zech 14 and you see this very deliverance at the time when the government and the throne of David is taken by Jesus. In Zech 14 a key verse is in that day they will say the LORD is one. This is Israel seeing Jesus come with His saints saving them and it says the LORD comes this is JVWH and now seeing Jesus they say the Lord is one. Israel as Paul said has the blindness taken away. Luke here says they will serve him in righteousness and Holiness all the days of their lives after being delivered from their enemies. Again this is all future. And can be seen to be coming to pass. Israel is Holy and righteous through coming to faith in jesus as God and savior. The destiny is clear and the set up for this view lines up with the reality of our current world on every front.
     
  11. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Is what Ezekiel 47:12 shows us is the "Eternal Kingdom" as the river of life flows from the sanctuary, the tree of life has leaves that won't die/fade "Eternal", fruit that won't be consumed "Eternal", leaves of the tree are for healing/medicine.

    This is also seen in Revelation 22:1-5, the exact same "Eternal Kingdom" :)

    Hope that better helps you see the truth of scripture :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  12. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    An Infant dying a 100 years old represents eternal, not literal death.

    Do you deny the New Heaven, Earth, and Jerusalem, seen in Isaiah 65:17-19 is the same as that seen in Revelation 21:1-5?

    Do you believe there will be "TWO" future New Heavens, Earth's, Jerusalem's created?

    Pretty hard to deny the truth presented :)

    There is no earthly millennial kingdom found in the scripture, where Jesus is going to hang out on earth with mortal humans.

    Jesus warned the believer, about this teaching in Matthew 24:23-27

    Don't Be Deceived

    Jesus Christ Is The Lord :)

    Truth7t7
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  13. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    You are paying no more attention to what I said, than you do to what the Bible says. What I pointed out was that Gog and Magog are not destroyed before the earthly kingdom, which you deny exists, and then, after that kingdom, the entire world, including, of course, Gog and Magog, will be destroyed. ALL of the alleged contradictions exist entirely in your mind. and ALL of them come from your DESIRE to deny the future earthly restoration of the nation of Israel in this present earth, AFTER Messiah returns and BEFORE the earth is destroyed and remade.

    As another posted commented yesterday, this restoration is the main subject of more than a hundred chapters of Bible prophecy. But you DO NOT WISH to admit that it will really take place.
     
  14. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Is it a literal chain made of steel that binds Satan or is it a chain made of the blood of Christ?

    Is Satan bound in a literal hole in the ground with a metal lid, or is he bound in some other way?

    It Satan literally a giant flying lizard or is he a fallen angel?

    Since the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, your sequence cannot be correct.
    We have Christ returning in Revelation 16:15-16 and also returning in chapter 19.
    Therefore the book cannot be in perfect chronological order.


    We also have the "nations", and "wrath", and "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18.
    You cannot have a judgment of the dead without a resurrection of the dead.
    Therefore, we literally have the judgment of the dead much earlier in the Book of Revelation.


    In 2 Thessalonians chapter 1 we have Christ returning in "flaming fire".
    When does the fire come in Revelation chapter 20?


    The "first resurrection" found in Revelation chapter 20 is the same one found in John 5:24.

    The Book of Revelation is literally made up of overlapping visions, repeated using different language.
    Attempting to force the book into a perfect chronological sequence only produces tremendous confusion.




    You cannot make what you have said work without ignoring "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18.

    Were all of the Israelites "partially" blinded in Romans chapter 11, or were part of them blinded and part of them were not?

    .
     
  15. Daniel Martinovich

    Daniel Martinovich Friend Supporter

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    No. Not pre, mid, post, ah, or preter. In fact a good question would be. Why do all the “isms” focus on a few verses, in this case a thousand years. That the Bible does not interpret for us. When there is so much end time prophecy that is directly and indirectly interprited by the Bible itself?
     
  16. Daniel Martinovich

    Daniel Martinovich Friend Supporter

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    Well I just figured to address what Jesus did not. The day of vengeance of our God are the great days of judgement when Jeuses literally comes to earth to oversee those days. Like for instance, the one in 70 ad. Or the great judgements against the city of Rome later. Then there was the end of the age of the four gentile empires 1453 ad when what had been the capitol of the Roman Empire since 333 ad fell. Then at some point in between those three he went to six of the seven churches in Revelation.

    Then there is Gog and Magog who illustrate the nations and people’s who seek to stop or destroy the growth of the influence of the invisible government of God in the world. That is our present age. After the age of the four empires. Everyone of those powers was defeated in war by the nations most influenced by the government of God.
    So the day of vengeance keeps on going. How about the American civil war?
    “My eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord.......”’
     
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I see Ezekiel's temple prophecy of what "could have been." It was a prophecy that could have been fulfilled by Israel, but they failed to live up to obeying God so as to bring it to pass. We see things like this elsewhere in Scripture. In Jonah, we see God tell Jonah that the city of Nineveh will be destroyed in a few days, but it does not come to pass because they repented. The Bible is full of what if scenarios. We have a choice or free will. It's why we have the Bible. it tells us what to do. We are accountable to it. There are good consequences in obeying it and bad consequences in disobeying it.

    Side Note:

    For the idea of reinstituting the temple sacrifices again during the Millennium is just silly. That would be going backwards and not fowards.
     
  18. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    That is an interesting interpretation, but that is not what the prophecy says. It is not presented as what could happen, or what might happen, but as what will happen.

    And again, the sacrifices presented in this multi-chapter prophecy, and the associated laws given in it, are not a return to the Old system. They are not just distinctly different from the worship presently specified by God, they are also distinctly different from the Old law given through Moses. This is a new form of worship, found neither in the law of Moses nor in the New Testament.
     
  19. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Christ is the sacrificial "Lamb" that was the final sacrifice for sin, throughout the New Testament and the Book of Revelation.

    He announced that He would fulfill the New Covenant in His Blood, at the Last Supper in Matthew 26:28.

    This fact shows your claim of a change to a different covenant in the future, with renewed animal sacrifices for sin, to be in error.


    Rev_5:6  And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.


    Rev_5:8  And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.


    Rev_5:12  Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.


    Rev_5:13  And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.


    Rev_6:1  And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.


    Rev_6:16  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:


    Rev_7:9  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;


    Rev_7:10  And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.


    Rev_7:14  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


    Rev_7:17  For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.


    Rev_12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.


    Rev_13:8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


    Rev_14:1  And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.


    Rev_14:4  These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.


    Rev_14:10  The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:


    Rev_15:3  And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.


    Rev_17:14  These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.


    Rev_19:7  Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.


    Rev_19:9  And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.


    Rev_21:9  And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.


    Rev_21:14  And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.


    Rev_21:22  And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.


    Rev_21:23  And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.


    Rev_21:27  And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.


    Rev_22:1  And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.


    Rev_22:3  And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:



    There is no indication of your claimed different future covenant in the Bible.
    It only comes from you.


    .
     
  20. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have always understood that Ezekiel's vision is of the third temple built by the Jews, not Jerusalem. I thought this temple was the millennial temple. The New Jerusalem, however, is the city that comes down from God for the new heaven and the new earth. I may be wrong, but that is what I thought.
     
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