The lie of the "right" regarding socialism

[Tom 1]

The poor do not do much of anything.
They certainly don't show up for work.

What a bizarre notion. Dirt poor people the world over are trapped in working harder and longer days than you ever have, just to get by from one day to the next.

 

[Larniavc]

and it will be worse if they get control of the medical industry. You nailed one of the many reasons why the government should not be involved.

You do know that the government controlled nhs gets equal or better public health outcomes yet spends about half the amount market driven American for profit method does?

How do you square that circle?

 

[Larniavc]

my basic deductions doubled

Being from a developed country I have no idea what deductions are.

Why don’t you tell me how much you pay in insurance per year and we’ll compare it with my per year outlay as a percentage of my tax that goes to health?

I pay a little over £2k a year.

 

[Larniavc]

What a bizarre notion. Dirt poor people the world over are trapped in working harder and longer days than you ever have, just to get by from one day to the next.

Silly boy!

Being poor is a lifestyle choice. Just like being gay or ill.

 

[Lazarus Long]

The poor do not do much of anything.
They certainly don't show up for work.

You don't know very much so I'll leave you to wallow in ignorance.

 

[Lazarus Long]

They are not actually Socialist societies, although advocates of Socialism always want to present them as some ideal so that true Socialist countries like Venezuela and Cuba aren't mentioned instead.

The American lie as to what socialism is, is laughed at by the rest of the world.

 

[Albion]

The American lie as to what socialism is, is laughed at by the rest of the world.

That's about all that's left to say after the rosy claims of and about Socialism have been exploded.

 

[Lazarus Long]

That's about all that's left to say after the rosy claims of and about Socialism have been exploded.

What post was that?

 

[SkyWriting]

SkyWriting said: ↑
The poor do not do much of anything.
They certainly don't show up for work.

You don't know very much so I'll leave you to wallow in ignorance.

I lived in the ghetto in our city for a few years as building manager for federal subsidized housing. And I married one of the residents. So I picked up some insights by living with the poor in the city. And employing them at my apartments.


A Closer Look at Milwaukee Zip Code 53206
Inside the “Most Incarcerated” Zip Code in the Country


I lived at 1003 W. Atkinson.
Zip 53206
Google Maps

 

[Tom 1]

Silly boy!

Being poor is a lifestyle choice. Just like being gay or ill.

Sad how some ideas never go away.

 

[Lazarus Long]

SkyWriting said: ↑
The poor do not do much of anything.
They certainly don't show up for work.

I lived in the ghetto in our city for a few years as building manager for federal subsidized housing. And I married one of the residents. So I picked up some insights by living with the poor in the city. And employing them at my apartments.


A Closer Look at Milwaukee Zip Code 53206
Inside the “Most Incarcerated” Zip Code in the Country


I lived at 1003 W. Atkinson.
Zip 53206
Google Maps

And that has what to do with the poor making your shoes and jeans and shirts and whatever else you claimed the capitalists made?

 

[LostMarbels]

SkyWriting said: ↑
The poor do not do much of anything.
They certainly don't show up for work.

I lived in the ghetto in our city for a few years as building manager for federal subsidized housing. And I married one of the residents.

Dude just stop... first you state poor people are lazy then you say poor people are from the ghetto. Guess you never heard of trailer parks where 90% of their jobs are menial labor, construction, and landscaping workers. Or rednecks that work the land.

My Uncle was a shepherd in the Blue Ridge mountains Virginia. Take out veterinarian costs, fule, feed, labor, ferriers for the draft horses, tack, equipment, shearing, electric, taxes, mortgage, kids, heating oil/coal, fence repair, building maintenance, ...... he barely made by. He was barely the bottom of the middle class.

To my knowledge, the same can be said for ag farmers. Horticulture. Politury. You don't make a killing. You bust your bottom just to make by, and pay this months bills.

To say 'the poor' are lazy is a ridiculous statement.

 

[Ken-1122]

They are draining the ground water and paying pennies for what should be a public resource,

If I get my water from a well, is that draining ground water? If the water is on my land, how is that a public resource?

while making a fortune by screwing everyone over.

Who are they screwing over? How?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Our taxes should go to the common good; not to corporate welfare.
The question is not whether we need democratic socialism, the qesttion is if we should allow corporations to steal/privatize public resources, for pennies, and make millions/billions, as Nestle is doing with bottled water, water that God made for everyone...
The "right" absolutely believes in socialism, only it's socialism for the rich, not for the common good.
Socialize Costs, Privatize Profits - CounterPunch.org

Socialism is always going to benefit a small group at the top of the socialist hierarchy. They are the one's that get to define the common good and their opinion will always be that the common good requires their being enriched at the expense of everyone else. I would be considered a political conservative by most people. I oppose all forms of welfare that do not meet a specific criterion. That being that government largesse should only go to those that are in reality incapable of providing for themselves. Obviously corporate welfare would be the furthest thing from that one can imagine. Where we disagree is that IMO if a corporation provides a service that people desire, that corporation deserves to make whatever the market will bear. So If Nestle bottles water that people are inclined to buy they are not doing anything wrong. I pay my local government to deliver water to me. I would be unreasonable and illogical to expect that government all of that government's employees and all the employees and companies involved with that delivery system to work for free because the water was there already.

 

[Robin Mauro]

Tax breaks for the poor is socialism. Tax breaks for corporations support capitalism.
Capitalists make your clothes, your shoes, your car, your food, everything you want for yourself (bottled water). Government does none of those. Government only exists to help you keep all those capitalist created goodies for yourself. That's why the US system works so well. It helps people keep all the capitol they gather.

Capitalists are now looking to exploit the oort cloud for minerals so they we don't have to waste money digging up our planet. And you want to cut their funding?
No Digging Required: Space Mining on the Moon and Beyond

Unrestrained capitalism only works well for the rich.
Every political sysyem is flawed because man is involved in it. That's why we work to make things better

 

[Fantine]

Here's a thought - if you do not want to pay for water - don't

That is the beauty of capitalism.

Water is a natural resource. Back around 1980 my MIL moved to St. Petersburg, FLA. She drove us past dozens of hotels to a pokey little beach, telling us the hotels owned the waterfront and everyone else was stuck with that pokey little beach. No one should own the ocean, and Florida eventually changed their laws.

 

[Robin Mauro]

and it will be worse if they get control of the medical industry. You nailed one of the many reasons why the government should not be involved.



I’m not even close to rich and it is not in any way shape or form grim. Thanks to the Trump tax cuts my take home went up, my basic deductions doubled and I don’t have to pay penalty for not being able to afford health care after Obama made is twice as expensive.

The insurance companies are the problem with health care. They take a huge cut, charge high deductables, then deny people services, when people who've paid them fortunes, get sick.
Cut the middle man out!
Medicare actually works great, as does the post office...
Imagine if everything were privatized. That means profit is the only motivation for providing it. It doesn't work for jails-prisons, schools, fire departments.
It is rediculous to think privatizing everything could work for anyone but the rich. And it can't even work for them forever, because society falls apart.
Even much of the military was privatized through subcontracting, which had horrific results on many levels, including for those who serve on the ground in the military. They were in moldy tents, no body armour, while the private uppity-upps raked in the profit. See "Iraq For Sale."

 

[Robin Mauro]

P.S. Fire departments were one upon a time privatized. The only people who got services were those who could afford to pay for it. Whole cities burned down. That is why they are no longer private/for profit.
Some things should be private and some things not, and a combination of the two for some things, like housing.
"Am I my brother's keeper?"
Why yes, you are.
We are.
God requires it.

 

[Robin Mauro]

P.S. Fire departments were one upon a time privatized. The only people who got services were those who could afford to pay for it. Whole cities burned down. That is why they are no longer private/for profit.
Some things should be private and some things not, and a combination of the two for some things, like housing.
"Am I my brother's keeper?"
Why yes, you are.
We are.
God requires it.

Also, Paradise, near where I live, burned down in the camp fire; hundreds of lives lost, more homes and businesses, because PG&E is for profit rather than community owned. All they cared about was profit. Therefore, they did not keep up with tree trimming, replacing old transformers, etc.
SMUD, a utility also in the area, has had no such problems. They keep up on their infrastructure, because their job is to provide electricity, not to make profits for their CEO's and share-holders.
"The love of money is the root of all evil."

 

[Robin Mauro]

If I get my water from a well, is that draining ground water? If the water is on my land, how is that a public resource?

Who are they screwing over? How?

I am also on a well. There is a huge difference between people using water for themselves and their family, and a corpoation taking millions of gallons out of an area, draining a whole communities water table, in order to bottle it (plastics), and ship it all over the globe, and sell it for millions of dollars.
That's who they are screwing over.
I'll say it again,
"The love of money is the root of all evil."