The lie of eternal security refuted once and for all.

[Rick Otto]

It's Faith, Jason.

We cannot earn God's favor. If that were possible, there would have been no need for the Incarnation, Death, and Resurrection of Christ.


I am almost positive that you've misunderstood them. I can see it in the way you never "get" what we've explained to you here again and again.


Those who believe in OSAS do not believe that we have a free pass for sinning once we have a claim on Faith. What you say here only verifies what I said in the above paragraph about my conclusion.

Thank you for that task.
It's as if it is believed a person can come to belief and have no conscience toward God.
That kind of belief would only be intellectual assent, not saving faith. It represents commitment in the head (thought), not of the will.

 

[-57]

If salvation can be lost, it wasn't salvation to begin with, it was simply probation, and probation is about works, not grace.

Probation? I have to think your trying to make a point....maybe as I read on I'll see it.
The way I see it you are saved or you arn't. There is no probation.

 

[-57]

So if Rick saves his best friend from drowning at sea, then Rick really did not save his best friend then? Does Rick's best friend having his hand out so as to grab Rick's hand to save him negate the fact that Rick saved his friend? Also, I believe God does the work in the believer so the saint cannot take the credit for any good done in their life. It is God who ultimately works in a believer's life when they submit to Him.

For what is the alternative?
A sin and still be saved doctrine?
That sure doesn't sound like it is of God.


....

Jason0047, I hace to assume you have not been saved as of yet? Yes? Your post clearly indicate that considering you still sin. Would that be a fair assessment?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I have talked with people both online and in person have admitted that they can sin openly and die in that sin and be saved. I have even heard someone admit that they can mow down a crowd with a machine gun and they are still saved in that moment of doing so. So you would be wrong. There are people out there that belief this way and they hold to the view called: "Once Saved Always Saved." Your version of OSAS may sound completely different to you, but it really isn't. They are the same thing because in your view of OSAS, you are saying that you will forever remain in some kind of sin the rest of your life. But that is a declaration of evil on your part, though; And God cannot agree with that type of thinking because it is sinful. A person has to renounce sin and fight against sin and believe they can overcome it with the Lord's help. God does not want us to be a conquered people who is enslaved to their sin....

The fact that you are offended by these idiots who make these idiot claims only demonstrates your intolerance of God's grace.

Further, if such sins could remove salvation from anyone, why in the world did Christ die for all sins then? Please answer this. It's been asked a number of times.

If your view were correct, then Christ died for NOTHING.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Bewitched to do what exactly?

Bewitched to join you in your folly.

Romans 2:14 works against you and not for you. The Gentiles doing that which is natural in the law lets the believer know that they are without excuse in ignoring God's laws with a sin and still be saved doctrine.

Not at all.

The Gentiles doing that which is natural in the law and failing to keep all of the law - as we all surely will - lets the believer know that they are without excuse and that they too are sinners - just as are all others.

It lets them know that they cannot possible be justified by the law since it is impossible to keep the law completely.

The passage about the gentile's having the law written in their hearts even if they don't have the Jewish law - stands alone. It's meaning is clear. We cannot be justified before God by keeping our conscience clear - as important as it is to try to do so wherever we can.

Read the surrounding verses for Romans 2. The context is talking about the Law of Moses.

Of course it is.

Which is Paul's perfect segway into the concept of not being able to keep the law written in our hearts any more than we are able to keep the law written on tablets.

It is not talking about the Commands given to us from our Lord Jesus Christ and from His followers.

Of course it isn't. It's talking about the gentile conscience.

If the Holy Spirit doesn't pluck the strings of your conscience when you disobey the Lord's commands, you are likely bereft of the Spirit altogether.

Which wouldn't surprise me one bit in your case since you have never trusted in the sacrifice of our Lord as your only hope of salvation.

It appears to me that you are under a curse because you have added keeping the law as an addition to the work of Christ.

If you were just arguing that it is possible to get to the point in our life where we do not consciously sin any more - I would have little or no problem with your opinion on that.

If you are close to getting to that point in your life - you are likely a better man than I am. More power to you.

But, as we have all told you again and again, the problem with you is that you have added not sinning to the requirements for salvation.

For that reason, you have been judged by most here as preaching another gospel (which is no gospel at all).

As I have told you many times - you need to repent and rest in the finished work of Christ as your only hope of not going to Hell.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

 

[Rick Otto]

Probation? I have to think your trying to make a point....maybe as I read on I'll see it.
The way I see it you are saved or you arn't. There is no probation.

The point part is in the first part, and it goes to definition of exactly what you believe we are or are not.
If salvation can be lost, it isn't salvation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The point part is in the first part, and it goes to definition of exactly what you believe we are or are not.
If salvation can be lost, it isn't salvation.

Jesus used real world examples or parables to illustrate spiritual truth. I illustrated by way of a real world example that what you are claiming here is not true.

...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Anyways, check out the video above. In that video, you will find that there are many verses given to us believers as to why we must turn away from darkness.

...

 

[-57]

The point part is in the first part, and it goes to definition of exactly what you believe we are or are not.
If salvation can be lost, it isn't salvation.

I agree....the bible says if we believe we receive eternal life. Some out there then try to make it conditional...a hidden form of works...

 

[-57]

Anyways, check out the video above. In that video, you will find that there are many verses given to us believers as to why we must turn away from darkness.

...

I haven't watched the video...and I agree, we must turn from darkness. Reading your post one has to wonder why the video says we must turn...and how theologicaly correct it is.

 

[Marvin Knox]

I haven't watched the video...and I agree, we must turn from darkness. Reading your post one has to wonder why the video says we must turn...and how theologicaly correct it is.

I have watched the video.

It isn't theologically correct.

It is completely in line with the version of the gospel preached by Jason.

It is most every verse that could conceivably be taken to show that one has to overcome sin in order to be saved.

It is none of the verses that show that true believers have already overcome sin in Christ.

It is unbalanced.

The end result of taking only one side of an issue is that the person doing it inevitably ends up falling into a ditch.

A balanced video would show both sides of the issue.

The end result of doing that would then be to show a gospel that bases salvation, in it's most basic sense, on the finished work of Jesus Christ and faith in that work.

At the same time a balanced approach would show that it is extremely important to obey the Lord and that a great deal in eternity depends on us doing exactly that while we live this life here on earth in the flesh.

This properly balanced gospel isn't hard to understand at all. It is the gospel understood by the vast majority of the people who are disagreeing with Jason here on this thread.

Jason (and the person in the video) have both fallen from grace and are preaching a gospel of works that denies the finished work of Christ for basic salvation.

They both are undermining the faith of believers in salvation by faith alone.

They both (Jason and the person in the video) need to repent and believe the true gospel rightly understood.

 

[-57]

Sounds lke...according to the video....no one is saved. WOW, tough gospel.

 

[Rick Otto]

Jesus used real world examples or parables to illustrate spiritual truth. I illustrated by way of a real world example that what you are claiming here is not true.

...

Saving grace is irresistible. It is not just a flotation device.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I have watched the video.

It isn't theologically correct.

It is completely in line with the version of the gospel preached by Jason.

It is most every verse that could conceivably be taken to show that one has to overcome sin in order to be saved.

It is none of the verses that show that true believers have already overcome sin in Christ.

It is unbalanced.

The end result of taking only one side of an issue is that the person doing it inevitably ends up falling into a ditch.

A balanced video would show both sides of the issue.

The end result of doing that would then be to show a gospel that bases salvation, in it's most basic sense, on the finished work of Jesus Christ and faith in that work.

At the same time a balanced approach would show that it is extremely important to obey the Lord and that a great deal in eternity depends on us doing exactly that while we live this life here on earth in the flesh.

This properly balanced gospel isn't hard to understand at all. It is the gospel understood by the vast majority of the people who are disagreeing with Jason here on this thread.

Jason (and the person in the video) have both fallen from grace and are preaching a gospel of works that denies the finished work of Christ for basic salvation.

They both are undermining the faith of believers in salvation by faith alone.

They both (Jason and the person in the video) need to repent and believe the true gospel rightly understood.

First, of all. Repent from what?
Repent is to repent of one's sins. If a believer is walking in righteousness with God, what would they need to repent of?

Second, in the video, key words are highlighted so as to what the Bible is saying. He is merely asking questions and repeating what the Bible says. So if you disagree with the video, you are essentially just disagreeing with Scripture because that is what he primarily quoted.

...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Sounds lke...according to the video....no one is saved. WOW, tough gospel.

Actually it is not hard to obey God. But the Bible also says narrow is the way that leads into life and FEW be there that find it. OSAS is the popular wide gate path.

...

 

[Marvin Knox]

First, of all. Repent from what? Repent is to repent of one's sins. If a believer is walking in righteousness with God, what would they need to repent of?

Repent of preaching a false gospel - which is a sin against God and against man.

Second, in the video, key words are highlighted so as to what the Bible is saying. He is merely asking questions and repeating what the Bible says. So if you disagree with the video, you are essentially just disagreeing with Scripture because that is what he primarily quoted....

As I explained clearly (which you refused to address) the speaker in the video only preached one side of the God inspired paradox concerning salvation as found in the scriptures.

The Lord told us to be careful how we listen because for those who do not have - even what they think they have will be taken away from them.

When you leave out the other side of a doctrine - God will refuse to provide the correct view of that doctrine until you include both sides and ask for wisdom in figuring out the paradox.

Many others here understand the paradox in the correct way. God has given them the wisdom to understand - whereas He has withheld wisdom from you and the maker of the video - because you refuse to incorporate all of the appropriate scriptures into your doctrine.

This has been explained to you many times.

You do not have a grasp on how systematic theology must be done to stay in balance - and you also seem to be unaware of how the Holy Spirit deals with teachers and theologians in matters of this kind.

 

[Rick Otto]

Actually it is not hard to obey God. But the Bible also says narrow is the way that leads into life and FEW be there that find it. OSAS is the popular wide gate path.

...

It isn't the majority belief. Your own logic betrays you.
Salvation is not probation.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Actually it is not hard to obey God. But the Bible also says narrow is the way that leads into life and FEW be there that find it. OSAS is the popular wide gate path.

...

Actually, relying on one's own righteousness is the wide path.

Faith in Christ and His gospel is not easy. It's a stumbling block for many. It's quite difficult to rely solely on God's grace, and you are living proof. You don't want to hang ALL of your hope on Christ, so your hedge their bet. You perfect yourself (so you think) and have your trust resting either fully or partially on your obedience to the law.

In other words, the narrow way is faith; the broad way is works.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It isn't the majority belief. Your own logic betrays you.
Salvation is not probation.

Actually, it is the majority belief, my friend. Most churches here in America believe in OSAS (Which is not in the Bible) and they deny the Biblical Teaching to be Holy (or Sinlessly Perfect). Most today believe in some kind of sin and still be saved type belief. Yes, there are many Works based religions out there, too (Which is the other wrong opposite extreme of False Soteriology). But believing God does the work in you (as evidence that He lives in you) is not Works Salvationism. It is Relationship-ism.

....