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Here’s the No. 1 fallacy on eternal security

Clare73

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If a person doesnt believe, going by Scripture, alone that, 'at the evening of life they shall be judged on their love'. then Scripture alone hasn't served to fully inform them.
Scripture reference?

The Orthodox Jew who loves well will not be judged on his love, but on his response to Jesus Christ. . .as will all mankind (Jn 3:18).
 
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fhansen

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The Orthodox Jew who loves well will not be judged on his love, but on his response to Jesus Christ. . .as will all mankind (Jn 3:18).
And our response to Christ should be love, because he commands it. And He's also the source of it at the same time. So unless one is in Christ, loving well is sort of an indeterminate quality. Again loving well is described most aptly in 1 Cor 13 as well as the beatitudes. Either way, it's a gift, that comes by virtue of our communion or fellowship with Him.
 
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Clare73

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And our response to Christ should be love, because he commands it. And He's also the source of it at the same time. So unless one is in Christ, loving well is sort of an indeterminate quality. Again loving well is described most aptly in 1 Cor 13 as well as the beatitudes. Either way, it's a gift, that comes by virtue of our communion or fellowship with Him.
Does not address my post (#241) to which it is responding. . .

While Scripture states that the response required for salvation is faith (Eph 2:8-9).
 
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fhansen

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Does not address my post (#241) to which it is responding. . .

While Scripture states that the response required for salvation is faith (Eph 2:8-9).
Ok, referencing that quote, we have to have understanding of what faith means and what it means to be saved through it, because there are many other passages that tell us what we need to have or do besides faith alone in order to be saved. And this is easily reconciled.

Faith and righteousness are directly tied together and must not be separated as if one without the other would be sufficient. A major difference between the old and new covenants is that true righteousness comes from God alone.

"...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3:9

I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people."
Jer 31:33

We become 'His people' through faith, and then He causes us to be righteous. So faith involves more than just believing it some divine litmus test truths about Jesus. The reason that faith is so important, and the reason that God was so pleased with Abraham's faith, is because man had essentially abandoned God in Eden and nothing changed afterwards; man became and remained lost by that fact. And faith is that step towards reuniting with God. And that union itself is the core of man's justice or righteousness, it's how we were meant to be. It's all about reconciliation with God through the work of His Son who reveals Him in everything He said and did. That's why it's so important to believe in Jesus. To believe in Jesus is to believe in God.

"Through Him you believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and glorified Him, and so your faith and hope are in God." 1 Per 1:21

So faith means union with God and union with God, 'apart from whom we can do nothing', means righteousness for us as He pours His love into our hearts (Rom 5:5). It's to "...now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root..." (Rom 11:17). It's for God to begin to reproduce Himself in us, for us to share in His life which is the life of love. This is why John tells us in his letters that we don't even know God if we don't love, and Jesus can command us to love as He does, and can use criteria for salvation based on such things as obedience of the commandments and what we do "for the least of these". Love is the law written on our hearts, which is why it is said that love fulfills the law. And this sheds much light on why Paul could say, for example,

"To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life." Rom 1:7
 
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Clare73

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Ok, referencing that quote, we have to have understanding of what faith means and what it means to be saved through it, because there are many other passages that tell us what we need to have or do besides faith alone in order to be saved.
The faith that saves is belief and trust in Jesus Christ and his atoning work for the remission of one's sin.
We then grow in the knowledge and practice of that faith which saved from God's condemnation.
 
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fhansen

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The faith that saves is belief and trust in Jesus Christ and his atoning work for the remission of one's sin.
We then grow in the knowledge and practice of that faith which saved from God's condemnation.
Again it's more than just believing in one or two truths regarding Jesus and His work. Faith is about reconciliation with God and to believe in Jesus is to believe in God. He wants man back into that right and just state of being. The state of "original sin" consists of the very alienation from God that Adam brought into our world, and Jesus came to rectify..

And yes, holiness saves us from condemnation, from the sin that would otherwise earn us death That's the gift of God through Christ His Son.
 
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Clare73

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Again it's more than just believing in one or two truths regarding Jesus and His work. Faith is about reconciliation with God
And the belief in and trust on Jesus and his atoning work on the cross effects reconcilation with God (Eph 2:16) and salvation from his condemnation (Eph 2:8-9).
 
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fhansen

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And the belief in and trust on Jesus and his atoning work on the cross effects reconcilation with God (Eph 2:16) and salvation from his condemnation (Eph 2:8-9).
Reconciliation isn't just a legal status however, but a relationship that's meant to grow and blossom unto eternal life. If we're picking up our cross and following daily, doing his will the best we can with the gifts given, then we're acting in line with that relationship, producing good fruit, as His children should, IOW.
 
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Clare73

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Reconciliation isn't just a legal status however, but a relationship that's meant to grow and blossom unto eternal life. If we're picking up our cross and following daily, doing his will the best we can with the gifts given, then we're acting in line with that relationship, producing good fruit, as His children should, IOW.
Is that a denial of the point that belief in and trust on Jesus and his atoning work on the cross effects reconcilation with God (Eph 2:16) and salvation from his condemnation (Eph 2:8-9), which is the point under consideration?
 
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fhansen

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Is that a denial of the point that belief in and trust on Jesus and his atoning work on the cross effects reconcilation with God (Eph 2:16) and salvation from his condemnation (Eph 2:8-9), which is the point under consideration?
IDK. You decide
 
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Clare73

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IDK. You decide.
Okay, then for the sake of clarity, the gift of faith (Php 1:29, 2 Pe 1:1, Ac 1348, 18:27, Ro 2:3) in and trust on Jesus and his atoning work on the cross effects reconcilation with God (Eph 2:16) and salvation from his condemnation (Eph 2:8-9).
 
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fhansen

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Okay, then for the sake of clarity, the gift of faith (Php 1:29, 2 Pe 1:1, Ac 1348, 18:27, Ro 2:3) in and trust on Jesus and his atoning work on the cross effects reconcilation with God (Eph 2:16) and salvation from his condemnation (Eph 2:8-9).
The distinctions, or emphasis, I'm making, and I think it's important, is that faith in God is the reversal of Adam's lack of faith in Him-and that faith, itself, is what He's after because it effects reunion, communion, with Him. And that relationship, itself, is the essence and basis of our justice, our righteousness. So belief in Jesus is belief in God, not soley trust in Jesus and His atoning work, as if my believing my sins are forgiven makes them forgiven, but it's broader, it's to see, to know, God in Jesus and bow before that God. That is reconciliation with Him effected, and that reconciliation is more than a legal transaction but means, as I've said, a vital, crucial relationship first of all, the branch now grafted into the Vine.
 
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actionsub

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I’ve written in CP before that I believe once a Christian is saved through the sacrifice of Christ, they cannot lose their salvation. This doctrine is most often called the perseverance (sometimes labeled “preservation”) of the saints.

On this topic, the Westminster Confession of Faith says: “They whom God hath accepted in His beloved Son effectually called and sanctified by His Spirit can neither totally nor finally fall away from a state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end and be eternally saved.”

There are plenty who disagree with this.

For example, the Catholic Church at the Council of Trent declared: “If anyone says that a man once justified cannot lose grace and therefore that he who falls and sins never was truly justified, let him be accursed.” And at the 1610 Conference of the Remonstrants (what Arminians called themselves then) said, “Persons truly regenerate, by neglecting grace and grieving the Holy Spirit with sin, fall away totally, and at length finally, from grace into eternal reprobation.”

The WCF is basically saying "if you're saved and one of the elect, you're going to prove it by remaining in the faith until you're called home."

That's a far cry from its current corruption of "once saved always saved," in which the individual once saved, can totally apostasize but God's still stuck with them: "Yes, the dear departed said a prayer back in April 1978, so they're in like Flynn." The idea is morphed from perseverance of the saints to preservation of the sinner.
 
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RandyPNW

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Not only is he allowing it but even commands so. Didn't God tell people to be fruitful and multiply?
God's Word, when used, implies that Man carry out His instructions by the *power* of His Word. When we obey God we are choosing to live in partnership with God's Word, reflecting the nature of God in our own obedience to His Word.

For example, God may ask you to assume control over a village, and you would be right to do so in response to this Word of Command. But if an enemy asked you to do the same thing, you would not do so in response to the enemy's command, but only in response to God's Command. Even if we carry out God's Command in an ungodly way we should not be carrying out God's Command properly.

So, just the general command to Mankind to multiply and be fruitful, fill the earth, etc. must not leave out the equally important Command to live in God's Image and Likeness. There is no sense carrying out the task of raising children if we do so devoted to Satan or to our own glory.
 
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Clare73

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The distinctions, or emphasis, I'm making, and I think it's important, is that faith in God is the reversal of Adam's lack of faith in Him-and that faith, itself, is what He's after because it effects reunion, communion, with Him.
Faith in God does not save. . .it must be faith in Jesus Christ (Jn 3:18).
And that relationship, itself, is the essence and basis of our justice, our righteousness.
Actually, it is the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ that is the basis of that relationship.
So belief in Jesus is belief in God, not soley trust in Jesus and His atoning work, as if my believing my sins are forgiven makes them forgiven.
Belief in Jesus is necessarily belief in God for Jesus is God Incarnate (Jn 1:1, 14).

In what atoning work is there to trust if Jesus is not God?

Not to be confused with professed belief in God which rejects faith in Jesus Christ and, therefore, rejects God.

but it's broader, it's to see, to know, God in Jesus and bow before that God.
That is saving faith, and anything less is not.
Again it's more than just believing in one or two truths regarding Jesus and His work. Faith is about reconciliation
Saving faith effects reconciliation.
 
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fhansen

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Faith in God does not save. . .it must be faith in Jesus Christ (Jn 3:18).
Only because Jesus is God. To see Jesus is to see God, to know Jesus is to know God, to believe in Jesus is to believe in God, to hope in Jesus is to hope in God, and to love Jesus is to love God. So, now,
"...THIS is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3

And again,
"Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God." 1 Pet 1:21

And was James speaking of some other kind of faith when He instructed that deeds must be part of that faith?
"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder." James 2:19
Or when he said,
"Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness".
Was the faith of Abraham, our model of faith, not faith in God?

Or was the writer of Hebrews 11 speaking of a faith that cannot save when he referenced the faith of all the patriarchs, or when he said,
"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." Heb 11:6
Actually, it is the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ that is the basis of that relationship.
This is a lack of proper understanding. Man becomes righteous only by virtue of his connection to the Vine.
Saving faith effects reconciliation.
Yes, faith in God effects reconciliation. It's reconciliation realized, actualized, experienced.
 
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Clare73

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Only because Jesus is God.
And?. . .does that alter Jesus' statement that salvation is only by faith in him (Jn 3:18), that the faith of Jews in God only is not salvation?
 
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Clare73

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Was Abraham's faith in God his salvation?
No. . .his faith in the promise (Ge 15:5, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16), was his salvation (Ge 15:6).

Salvation has been by faith in Jesus Christ (the promise) since Abraham.
 
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