The lie of eternal security refuted once and for all.

[Rick Otto]

Yes, all sins.


None of them. No one goes to hell for any sins. Rev 20:15 tells us that those who are cast into the Lake of Fire is because of their not having their names in the book of life.

iow, they never received the free gift of eternal life. Those who do not have God's life, which is eternal life, will spend eternity in the Second Death, as Revelation calls it. They will be spiritually dead, or separated from God, for eternity.

OK, you moved the goal post. No problem. Instead of asking why people go to hell, I will move my question to accommodate your moving goal post..


Why do they have to go to hell? Why not just Detroit, or Flint, MIchigan?

 

[FreeGrace2]

OK, you moved the goal post. No problem. Instead of asking why people go to hell, I will move my question to accommodate your moving goal post..


Why do they have to go to hell? Why not just Detroit, or Flint, MIchigan?

I answered that question in my response to your question. And there was no moving of any goal posts.

Here is the answer as to why peple go to hell:

No one goes to hell for any sins. Rev 20:15 tells us that those who are cast into the Lake of Fire is because of their not having their names in the book of life.

iow, they never received the free gift of eternal life. Those who do not have God's life, which is eternal life, will spend eternity in the Second Death, as Revelation calls it. They will be spiritually dead, or separated from God, for eternity.

If you don't understand my answer, just ask. I will be happy to clarify what is not clear.

 

[Rick Otto]

I answered that question in my response to your question. And there was no moving of any goal posts.

Here is the answer as to why peple go to hell:

No one goes to hell for any sins. Rev 20:15 tells us that those who are cast into the Lake of Fire is because of their not having their names in the book of life.

iow, they never received the free gift of eternal life. Those who do not have God's life, which is eternal life, will spend eternity in the Second Death, as Revelation calls it. They will be spiritually dead, or separated from God, for eternity.

If you don't understand my answer, just ask. I will be happy to clarify what is not clear.

You don't understand the question. You simply repeated your goal post moving answer, so I will repeat the question:
Why does someone not get their name in the book? Or similarly,...
why does God not choose some?

 

[FreeGrace2]

You don't understand the question.

Yes, I do. And I answered your question.

You simply repeated your goal post moving answer, so I will repeat the question:
Why does someone not get their name in the book? Or similarly,...
why does God not choose some?

God chooses to save those who believe, per 1 Cor 1:21.
"For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe."

Believers are who God chooses to save. And we know that those who believe are given eternal life, from many verses, but John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, 20:31 should suffice.

So, those who never believed never received the gift of eternal life. And their names wouldn't be in the book of life, right?

Now, that answers your question and I never moved any of your so-called goal posts.

 

[brotherjerry]

OK, you moved the goal post. No problem. Instead of asking why people go to hell, I will move my question to accommodate your moving goal post..


Why do they have to go to hell? Why not just Detroit, or Flint, MIchigan?

LOL....I think it funny you only referenced cities in Michigan...considering Hell is in Michigan as well

http://www.gotohellmi.com/

Quaint little town..used to drive through every time I was heading to Pinkney from my grandparents place.

 

[nobdysfool]

As far as i know the only good things to come out of Detroit were Glenn Frey and Bob Seger....good being a relative term....

 

[brotherjerry]

As far as i know the only good things to come out of Detroit were Glenn Frey and Bob Seger....good being a relative term....

Oh I don't know...lots of good things came out of Detroit.

Two you mentioned. Jerry Bruckheimer (CSI, Pirates of Carrib..., etc), Tim Allen, Sam Raimi (Evil Dead, Spider-man, etc), Bruce Campbell (king of "b" movies), Tom Selleck... Now if we are just talking musicians how is it Ted Nugent is not on your list? Or Alice Cooper? Mitch Ryder, the Temptations, Stevie Wonder.

What makes them good....is they came "OUT" of Detroit....they did not stay there

 

[FreeGrace2]

Oh I don't know...lots of good things came out of Detroit.

Two you mentioned. Jerry Bruckheimer (CSI, Pirates of Carrib..., etc), Tim Allen, Sam Raimi (Evil Dead, Spider-man, etc), Bruce Campbell (king of "b" movies), Tom Selleck... Now if we are just talking musicians how is it Ted Nugent is not on your list? Or Alice Cooper? Mitch Ryder, the Temptations, Stevie Wonder.

What makes them good....is they came "OUT" of Detroit....they did not stay there

How come no one mentioned "muscle cars"??

 

[WordSword]

....

Not sure what you want me to look at here Brother.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Not sure what you want me to look at here Brother.

Not my final response with cat pic. I said read the quotes of that post with the cat pic.

 

[WordSword]

Not my final response with cat pic. I said read the quotes of that post with the cat pic.

Send me the link again.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Send me the link again.

It is post #324.
First, read my quote.
Second read the quote by the other poster.

 

[Dan the deacon]

OK, you moved the goal post. No problem. Instead of asking why people go to hell, I will move my question to accommodate your moving goal post..


Why do they have to go to hell? Why not just Detroit, or Flint, MIchigan?

That would be too cruel .

 

[corinth77777]

Should the post be security of the Saints? Or the Security of Christ.

We cannot no longer limit salvation to what happens after physical death. Especially when life begins now.

Salvation is Christ's life ...live it and I believe you come in contact with it.

Salvation is Christ's faithfulness
And to me it's a Noun here.

What do we do with It? We are able to get back up when we fall in order to to put away the sinful nature by living by the Spirit.

Where is your salvation in all this...or rather where does your deliverance, place of refuge, or hiding place come from? Abiding in Christ; God's love for us.

Therefore we are too concerned about what happens after death....that we are refusing to have "life" now. God's rule and reign over our lives now. If we have that life now, shall we not worry what becomes of us later?

I believe God wants to save the whole person...Well as soon as I say save..our minds go to only one meaning....but doesn't our life here on earth count? Isn't that the true meaning of: Ephesians 2:8 "For by Grace are ye saved through Faith" and a corresponding verse 1 Peter 3:21. This is the baptism that saves us now......Found in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Another words it seems to me that we can be washed and cleansed more than once.
In/but maybe not into Christ Baptism[his resurrected life]..because our hearts also need to be cleansed and changed....that is one key here is to first make the inside clean....

So whose baptism saves us now while we are in our bodies physically alive? Christ's Baptism...His death cleanses us and His resurrection gives us life....I believe when you live in it.....
With that said look at the passage that says it: When you walk in the Spirit we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Christ cleanses us from sin ......look that up.

So just noting that many of scripture we read are speaking of how we are saved from this life...the one that we are in our physical bodies in right Now..

Salvation is a Life....we must depend on our salvation, Christ's life (noun) to be delivered[saved] (verb)
As Noah's ark[noun] is salvation and those who got in were saved(verb) from the watery wrath.

So no you didn't do anything for Christ to die and for the father to raise Him...[salvation]noun
But in order to be saved one must abide in the ark..[verb]

With that said it is Christ who remains faithful...as the ark was a faithful source of salvation..recall the passage that Jesus became the source of salvation for all who believe.
So then whose security? The security of Christ.

 

[corinth77777]

Should the post be security of the Saints? Or the Security of Christ.

We cannot no longer limit salvation to what happens after physical death. Especially when life begins now.

Salvation is Christ's life ...live it and I believe you come in contact with it.

Salvation is Christ's faithfulness
And to me it's a Noun here.

What do we do with It? We are able to get back up when we fall in order to to put away the sinful nature by living by the Spirit.

Where is your salvation in all this...or rather where does your deliverance, place of refuge, or hiding place come from? Abiding in Christ; God's love for us.

Therefore we are too concerned about what happens after death....that we are refusing to have "life" now. God's rule and reign over our lives now. If we have that life now, shall we not worry what becomes of us later?

I believe God wants to save the whole person...Well as soon as I say save..our minds go to only one meaning....but doesn't our life here on earth count? Isn't that the true meaning of: Ephesians 2:8 "For by Grace are ye saved through Faith" and a corresponding verse 1 Peter 3:21. This is the baptism that saves us now......Found in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Another words it seems to me that we can be washed and cleansed more than once.
In/but maybe not into Christ Baptism[his resurrected life]..because our hearts also need to be cleansed and changed....that is one key here is to first make the inside clean....

So whose baptism saves us now while we are in our bodies physically alive? Christ's Baptism...His death cleanses us and His resurrection gives us life....I believe when you live in it.....
With that said look at the passage that says it: When you walk in the Spirit we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Christ cleanses us from sin ......look that up.

So just noting that many of scripture we read are speaking of how we are saved from this life...the one that we are in our physical bodies in right Now..

Salvation is a Life....we must depend on our salvation, Christ's life (noun) to be delivered[saved] (verb)
As Noah's ark[noun] is salvation and those who got in were saved(verb) from the watery wrath.

So no you didn't do anything for Christ to die and for the father to raise Him...[salvation]noun
But in order to be saved one must abide in the ark..[verb]

With that said it is Christ who remains faithful...as the ark was a faithful source of salvation..recall the passage that Jesus became the source of salvation for all who believe.
So then whose security? The security of Christ.

Is there a scripture that says Christ saved us [delivered us] from the consequence of sin in order that we can have heaven when we die?

Is there a scripture that says Christ forgave us of all sin ...past present and future so we can have heaven when we die?

 

[Ron Gurley]

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...d-by-jesus-completed-and-irrevocable.8052980/

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...e-their-spiritual-position-in-christ.8002177/

 

[corinth77777]

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...d-by-jesus-completed-and-irrevocable.8052980/

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...e-their-spiritual-position-in-christ.8002177/

Let's just begin with one scripture....on that list..Ephesians 2:8...kjv For Grace are ye saved...

 

[corinth77777]

Let's just begin with one scripture....on that list..Ephesians 2:8...kjv For Grace are ye saved...

This scripture in my opinion is speaking of how we are saved today......through Christ's Faithfulness...
When I say today....that means from the world we live in now...from circumstances in this life. It is His faithfulness that is our salvation...as the ark was a faithful source to save those from the flood..so part of salvation is about saving our soul which is part of the whole person....our lives now....

So then Christ Jesus's faithfulness is our source of salvation. There is nothing we did to earn it...God gave freely His son's life for us ....I did not earn what Christ did on the cross nor did I earn His resurrected life.
Another words words not only is His death is part of salvation but His life is part of salvation.....so since Hebrews tells us He became the source of salvation for all who believe [have a hearty confidence/place confidence in] Then being "saved" encompasses His death...past tense and His Life [present tense] Eternal Life that exist in the form of Abundant life in this world is a characteristic of the Eternal God. A relationship is what it takes to know what it is one has residing in Him or Her. One way one relates to God is by being obedient to His word. Not so much different from the old covenant in the sense that Jesus fulfilled the Law.....and Now we obey the word that was made flesh by living out what Jesus did while He was on earth...Dying to self that we may live through Christ's Life....His life is our victory now in this world when we obey....Therefore if one does not obey the they do not please God....Nor in my opinion are protected. As we seen with earthly Israel when they obeyed the father through Mosis's Voice, God delivered them. They needed to remain under His protection...When they allowed other gods in....they then needed to repent to be healed/delivered. Delivered is the definition for saved. PART of why we miss having peace and joy in the holy spirit is because we have let many things come before God. Our conscience can't be cleaned [saved] when it is against God....our conscience is cleaned when it obeys the word. Recall those who did not consider the commandments under the old covenant, they died without mercy.
In the end yes Jesus is Eternally Secure and He resides in us.....However do we reside in Him? So yes you cannot be under His protection when you don't obey His word from the heart....which means if peace and Joy in the holy spirit or knowing God and Jesus who he has sent is eternal life...is not the experience you have maybe you are presently not delivered from sins in your mind....And how can you serve God with an unclean consceience.....is that maybe why it states ..."God require obedience over sacrifice"..."or before you go to the alter to present your offering first make peace with whom ever you offended." MY PERSONAL BELIEF IS YOU DON'T EVER LOSE Christ's faithfulness...therefore you can't lose salvation....However you can stop yourself from being delivered (saved) by not trusting in the source of salvation



For Salvation now is found in the resurrected life of Christ. And if one walk in it.
Or live by it...one will be delivered.


These are my thoughts...test them by the word.