The lie of eternal security refuted once and for all.

[Rick Otto]

In your question, your addressing the always saved part of the equation. Is it ok if we start our discussion from the beginning of the statement? ( once saved ) ? Lets say i'm asking the questions instead of you. What makes the word of God mine to ask any questions about them?

I don't think he really believes he's saved until he gets to heaven. Until then, it's just probation, and all could be lost.

 

[faither]

on

I don't think he really believes he's saved until he gets to heaven. Until then, it's just probation, and all could be lost.

Thanks for the reply rick. What do you think, what makes Gods Word mine so I can ask questions regarding it. focusing on the (once saved) part of the osas understanding. I think osas should be discussed from beginning of the word first, then onto the always saved part of the word. Discussing the (always saved) part first would be understanding it backwards, IMO.

If anyone else wants to chime in, go for it.

Jay

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't think he really believes he's saved until he gets to heaven. Until then, it's just probation, and all could be lost.

Even people who are completely free within a good Kingdom can still lose their freedom or their rights if they break certain laws within their own country or if they betray their King or do evil against him. Why do you think a beleiver can get away with thinking that their sin has no dire consequences for them in the after life? What makes the unbeliever different from the believer? A belief alone? Does that really change and make that person better?


....

 

[Rick Otto]

on

Thanks for the reply rick. What do you think, what makes Gods Word mine so I can ask questions regarding it. focusing on the (once saved) part of the osas understanding. I think osas should be discussed from beginning of the word first, then onto the always saved part of the word. Discussing the (always saved) part first would be understanding it backwards, IMO.

If anyone else wants to chime in, go for it.

Jay

I'm not sure what you mean by "what makes it mine", or how that is supposed to give me permission I don't usually seek, to ask questions. Could you clarify?

It doesn't look like I have identified a fundamental problem with acceptance, in that the belief that salvation isn't salvation, because damnation is still a threat.
Saved means safe, else what's to keep us from getting kicked out of heaven?

 

[Rick Otto]

Faith is a gift of God, not of ourselves.
Gifts of God make us different from unsaved unbelievers.
They make us "better" .
Seems obvious to me.

 

[faither]

I'm not sure what you mean by "what makes it mine", or how that is supposed to give me permission I don't usually seek, to ask questions. Could you clarify?

It doesn't look like I have identified a fundamental problem with acceptance, in that the belief that salvation isn't salvation, because damnation is still a threat.
Saved means safe, else what's to keep us from getting kicked out of heaven?

What must we do to claim the promises in Gods Word? Therefore making us able to discuss His truths.

 

[Rick Otto]

What must we do to claim the promises in Gods Word? Therefore making us able to discuss His truths.

Hear and believe them, but we do that on His impetus, not our own.
Still, I've heard intelligent discussion from unbelievers.
I think the problem here is not understanding how complete salvation is.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

What makes the unbeliever different from the believer?

Regeneration. God has recreated believers. Through the preaching of the gospel, He has made us new creations.

"since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

 

[faither]

Hear and believe them, but we do that on His impetus, not our own.
Still, I've heard intelligent discussion from unbelievers.
I think the problem here is not understanding how complete salvation is.

Hear and believe Gods Word, then we are saved, thus completing the first part (once saved) of the osas. Is this accurate?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Regeneration. God has recreated believers. Through the preaching of the gospel, He has made us new creations.

"since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

New creations implies they are a changed and new person that is not like the old person. In fact, Paul tells us to put on the new man. This implies that not everyone stuck to their new man or new nature when they began their faith by repenting of their sins and accepting Christ. This means a person has free will to follow God or not follow God even after regeneration. Being once regenerated does not mean you are forever saved. Adam and Eve did not need a regeneration. They did not need one because they were created without sin. Yet they were able to fall into sin and out of fellowship with God. God is not a respecter of persons. He is not going to let believers today get away with sin when He did't let Adam and Eve get away with sin.

...

 

[Steeno7]

New creations implies they are a changed and new person that is not like the old person. In fact, Paul tells us to put on the new man. This implies that not everyone stuck to their new man or new nature when they began their faith by repenting of their sins and accepting Christ. This means a person has free will to follow God or not follow God even after regeneration. Being once regenerated does not mean you are forever saved. Adam and Eve did not need a regeneration. They did not need one because they were created without sin. Yet they were able to fall into sin and out of fellowship with God. God is not a respecter of persons. He is not going to let believers today get away with sin when He did't let Adam and Eve get away with sin.

You're thinking of sin as something you "get away with" is very telling.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

New creations implies they are a changed and new person that is not like the old person. In fact, Paul tells us to put on the new man. This implies that not everyone stuck to their new man or new nature when they began their faith by repenting of their sins and accepting Christ. This means a person has free will to follow God or not follow God even after regeneration. Being once regenerated does not mean you are forever saved. Adam and Eve did not need a regeneration. They did not need one because they were created without sin. Yet they were able to fall into sin and out of fellowship with God. God is not a respecter of persons. He is not going to let believers today get away with sin when He did't let Adam and Eve get away with sin.

...

Paul is telling them to act in line with who they are. Your theology would have people saved and unsaved 10 times a day!
Thankfully Christians are born of an *imperishable* seed. "not of perishable seed but of imperishable."

Christians have something that Adam and Eve never had, we have the spirit of the risen Christ. This is why we cannot be lost. The Father can never lose the Son. Christians are now children. We are family members, not slaves. Slaves are tossed out when they err; however, sons are loved all the more when they do.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You're thinking of sin as something you "get away with" is very telling.

When a person knows to do right and they don't do it, why would you think that they are not trying to get away with doing evil? Did they just stumble accidentally into it? Would that excuse work with God?

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[Steeno7]

When a person knows to do right and they don't do it, why would you think that they are not trying to get away with doing evil? Did they just stumble accidentally into it? Would that excuse work with God?

You have strange ideas about Christians and about sin.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Paul is telling them to act in line with who they are. Your theology would have people saved and unsaved 10 times a day!
Thankfully Christians are born of an *imperishable* seed. "not of perishable seed but of imperishable."

Christians have something that Adam and Eve never had, we have the spirit of the risen Christ. This is why we cannot be lost. The Father can never lose the Son. Christians are now children. We are family members, not slaves. Slaves are tossed out when they err; however, sons are loved all the more when they do.

Not everyone struggles with sin like you think. But what is the alternative? Give into sin and have a belief on Jesus and think you are saved? I don't see this this teaching anywhere promoted in the Bible. There would then be no teaching on believers living righteously or holy if that was the case.

...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You have strange ideas about Christians and about sin.

Many people were astonished at Christ's teachings.

...

 

[Steeno7]

Many people were astonished at Christ's teachings.

You are not Jesus.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Paul is telling them to act in line with who they are. Your theology would have people saved and unsaved 10 times a day!
Thankfully Christians are born of an *imperishable* seed. "not of perishable seed but of imperishable."

Christians have something that Adam and Eve never had, we have the spirit of the risen Christ. This is why we cannot be lost. The Father can never lose the Son. Christians are now children. We are family members, not slaves. Slaves are tossed out when they err; however, sons are loved all the more when they do.

Also, we know according to the Parable of the Prodigal Son that the son was considered dead to the father when he went prodigal.

In addition, we are supposed to be slaves to Righteousness, too.

...

 

[Albion]

Not everyone struggles with sin like you think.

The just man falls seven times a day. That's the "just" man.

So whether or not a person is bothered by the sins he commits or "struggles," salvation cannot be contingent upon becoming sinless or else no one would be saved.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You are not Jesus.

He that abides in Him is to walk even as he walked (1 John 2:6).

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