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LDS The Gospel

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Yodas_Prodigy1, Apr 17, 2019.

  1. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    No--God did not ask JS to do that--nor would He ever say that. This Moroni character, however, did! He told JS he was not to join any of them, for they were all wrong and then proceeds to tell him that he (JS) was going to have the truth!
    The God of the OT is Jesus Christ. That is who created Adam and Eve and Lucifer and everything---that is who they saw---God the Father has never been seen face to face. And we are not told in what form Jesus He was seen.
     
  2. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    The angel Moroni was prophesied of in the Bible:
    (New Testament | Revelation 14:6 - 7)

    6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
    7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
     
  3. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Thanks for that! It looks obvious that JS believed that the Mormon church was the only true church (the church of the Lamb of God) and that all other churches are churches of the devil. This is similar to the core beliefs of the RCC, JWs, and the SDAs. The long-term objective of the Mormon church is to control the religion of the whole world. This may mean "convert to Mormonism or die". This is the same core teaching of Islam; and the RCC has proved this in previous centuries before and during the Reformation.

    Also, along with the RCC, the Mormon church is more wealthy than the U.S. government. It has financial control of many organisations right around the world. So there is a very strong financial incentive for the Mormon church to be seen as credible for the majority of its members. If the church lost its credibility and multitudes of members left, it would lose the 10% compulsory tithe that members pay. It is actually unbelievable how much wealth as been amassed through the tithes of its members. Mormon leaders would never want to have that financial wealth base threatened in any way.
     
  4. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Read Phoebe's post. There is a quote that definitely states that those churches that believe the Bible (and not the Book of Mormon) as the sole authority for faith in Christ are churches of the devil. Joseph Smith says quite clearly that only those who accept the Book of Mormon as the word of God are those in The Church of the Lamb of God (in other words the LDS church).

    Is that what you believe?
     
  5. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    That was not your angel---this was:

    2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
    2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
     
  6. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Hey, hey, hey!!! We do not believe that we are the only church that will be saved!!! We do not believe that all the other Christian churches are of the devil!! We believe that God's people are in every denomination!
    We believe that one day---everyone will come out and be one as is promised. If Mother Theresa is not saved---I would definitely want to know why not--for I view her as definitely saintly!
     
  7. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    There are only two churches on the earth, those who follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and those who follow the devil:
    (New Testament | John 8:42 - 44)

    42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
    43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
    44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    As individuals each person makes makes their own decision who they will follow. One of Christ's apostles was a devil:

    (New Testament | John 6:70)

    70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

    Therefore let us all choose to follow Jesus Christ and keep the commandments.
     
  8. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    I will agree to disagree with you.
     
  9. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Well said.
     
  10. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    At this time, there truly were only 2 churches, those who followed Jesus and those who didn't.
     
  11. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I think that Joseph Smith mistook Justification and Sanctification. He merged the two. According to the New Testament, Justification is the free gift of God through Jesus dying in our place when He went to the cross. His death on the cross took God's wrath and punishment for sin on Himself, setting us free from it. Sanctification is following the commandments voluntarily, not be obligation in order to be saved, so that we lift up and glorify Jesus in our lives. Paul defined Sanctification as love, joy, peace, gentleness, kindness, goodness, patience, faithfulness, and self-control. He says that against such there is no Law. What he meant was that if these attributes were the character of our lives, we are following all the the commandments because they all involve these attributes.
     
  12. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    So, because the Seventh Day Adventist church teaches exactly the same about keeping the commandments of Christ, do you believe that they are a true church as well as yours, seeing that you both teach exactly the same principles about Christian living?
     
  13. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    NO!! We do not teach exactly as the Mormons do! We keep the commandments of God (not of man) because we are saved, not in order to be saved! They do not save--they are the result of being saved. Salvation is by the grace of God alone. When we love God we attain to His perfect character of love which is demonstrated by the fruits of the spirit. We love God and our fellow man as Jesus summed them up---

    Mat_22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
     
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  14. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I knew that.

    I wanted to see the response from our Mormon friend. It is obvious that he is not a fundamentalist LDS, and is great to discuss with.
     
  15. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Where did the Seventh Day Adventists get their priesthood authority? Also where did the Pentecostals get their priesthood authority? Our priesthood authority came through John the Baptist and Peter, James, and John, who got it from Jesus Christ. It was conferred on Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery by them personally.
     
  16. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen" (Revelation 1:5-6).

    This means that every person who has received Christ as Saviour and Lord is a king and a priest to God, giving each individual direct access to God without having to go through a human mediating priest. The Levitical priesthood passed into history the moment the great Temple curtain was ripped from top to bottom by the hand of God. Therefore it was God Himself who made the priesthood redundant.

    There is only one High Priest and He is Jesus who intercedes for us before the throne of God. "There is no mediator between God and man except the man Jesus Christ" (1 Timothy 2:5).
     
  17. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    We don't have a Priesthood!! Jesus Christ is our High Priest. We have what the apostles set up---pastors, deacons, elders--so on. The apostles, nor Jesus, set up any priest hood---you will not find the word in relation to the gospel, we are all kings and priests of God.
     
  18. Ironhold

    Ironhold Member

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    This is yet another popular anti-Mormon conspiracy theory that people like to throw around.

    The vast majority of those organizations were created as a result of various church leaders taking a "demand-side" view of economics: there's a need, no trustworthy secular alternative exists, so...

    The vast majority of these groups operate as wholly-owned subsidiaries, in that they make their own day-to-day decisions and are responsible for their own bottom lines. The church can utilize them as needed for the larger purpose (for example, Deseret Book prints the hymnals), but are otherwise on their own.

    In fact, the church has actually divested itself of assets and organizations over the years, such as when they sold off ZCMI to Macy's, spun off an insurance company, and had Bonneville Communications sell off half its radio stations (exiting several media markets in the process).

    Believe it or not.
     
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  19. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    One of our Mormon friends on the thread informed us of the great work that the church does in many areas. There is no doubt about that.
     
  20. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    No, I believe this refers to Christ's anointed:

    (New Testament | Hebrews 5:4)

    4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
     
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