The Big Lie of Orthodoxy

[InSpiritInTruth]

Questions is what Jesus was about he greatest saying was "what do you think"?

When you say this simply means, if the Spirit of God does not come down and dwell in you, then you will not be able to ascend up to heaven.

Please answer me this one question, what are you going to do in Heaven, what is your function going to be?

It you have time please tell me what is The Kingdom of Heaven is and what function is it going to play in our lives?

My function then, is as it is now, to do the will of the Father.

Listen, if you have a special revelation or certain point you want to make then make it. But stop with the vague line of questioning and circular logic which is like a dog chasing it's own tail round and round and round.

If you don't like the answers I've given thus far, that's ok, move on, I'll get over it.

 

[x141]

The kingdom, the law, and the gospel are synonymous in relationship to thought as concerning the three perceptions of truth which in one form appear as the kingdom, city and temple.

In reality/truth, the law/life cannot be broken, if you do, in your mind you become a debtor, every bit as much as Adam did in the day he ate having no understanding of the price that was paid from the beginning, as an end declared out of God's mouth, he only having one son and one kingdom which are simply words to describe a measureless truth that has always been, even as it has always been hid in us in like manner, and common too all mankind as much as sin is.

This was the Word that was manifested in Jesus' flesh, to show us that this was the truth from the beginning.

 

[Phantasman]

Actually, I will never die.

Yea, the kingdom of God is within us, and only those who are born again of God can truly "see" it, as is also with the mysteries of the kingdom. But make no mistake, the kingdoms of this present evil world shall also become the kingdoms of our God and His Christ.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

My image is slightly different. And Revelations not clear, as why I prefer not to use it.

John
14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


This Aeon (realm, matter) will never be a place for me. The things in it, including the flesh, will die. Understanding what Aeons and infinities are, makes the Canon scriptures come alive.


But people tend to see partial truth through reading literally, rather than understanding spiritually.


They see mansions, and a place with streets of gold.



To be within, to feel heaven is all around us, is a sspiritual Aeon surrounding a physical one. I have used the Russian doll analogy many times as a way of understanding. God the Father being the largest, working it's way down to this Aeon which is within all others.


While Paul talks of a same idea,



1 Corinthians
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.


The answer comes appears more clearly in understanding the Aeons and infinities.

 

[spiritandtruth2]

My function then, is as it is now, to do the will of the Father.

Listen, if you have a special revelation or certain point you want to make then make it. But stop with the vague line of questioning and circular logic which is like a dog chasing it's own tail round and round and round.

If you don't like the answers I've given thus far, that's ok, move on, I'll get over it.

Here's a Revelation you need to checkout, as you say you are going to Heaven, but we have to be a very special person to do that.

Jesus said that to be part of the coming Kingdom you must be born again.

Are you born again? If not, you will never see it. (John 3:3)

The Biblical answer is:

It is reported in the Bible that Abraham was "a friend of God". (See James
2:23)

People of the "Old Testament" did not know anything about Jesus Christ. How
could those people have Jesus as their personal saviour and also have
forgiveness of their sins?

In addition, they did NOT have the opportunity to be "born-again".

Therefore according to certain Protestant interpretations no human of the
pre-Christian era would be saved because they are not "born-again".

Bear in mind, that Abraham was NOT "born again" and had a fine relationship
with God, he is even called a friend of God. (See James 2:23; also Daniel
12:13)

Only people who are chosen by God for the purpose of becoming heavenly
servants of God, serving in the Kingdom of God are born again.

Those humans who are chosen for heavenly duty, are not only born-again, but
also are selected because they are able to master a "new song" Revelation
14:3 says:

"And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four
living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but
the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth."
(See also Rev 5:9)

Do not be fooled by people who claim to go to heaven, and have not mastered
that "new song", because there are only the 144 000 going to heaven, all
other people can gain everlasting life on earth, and also many people of the
Old Testament era, AFTER they have been resurrected.

Your Sister in the Lord

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Here's a Revelation you need to checkout, as you say you are going to Heaven, but we have to be a very special person to do that.

Jesus said that to be part of the coming Kingdom you must be born again.

Are you born again? If not, you will never see it. (John 3:3)

The Biblical answer is:

It is reported in the Bible that Abraham was "a friend of God". (See James
2:23)

People of the "Old Testament" did not know anything about Jesus Christ. How
could those people have Jesus as their personal saviour and also have
forgiveness of their sins?

In addition, they did NOT have the opportunity to be "born-again".

Therefore according to certain Protestant interpretations no human of the
pre-Christian era would be saved because they are not "born-again".

Bear in mind, that Abraham was NOT "born again" and had a fine relationship
with God, he is even called a friend of God. (See James 2:23; also Daniel
12:13)

Only people who are chosen by God for the purpose of becoming heavenly
servants of God, serving in the Kingdom of God are born again.

Those humans who are chosen for heavenly duty, are not only born-again, but
also are selected because they are able to master a "new song" Revelation
14:3 says:

"And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four
living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but
the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth."
(See also Rev 5:9)

Do not be fooled by people who claim to go to heaven, and have not mastered
that "new song", because there are only the 144 000 going to heaven, all
other people can gain everlasting life on earth, and also many people of the
Old Testament era, AFTER they have been resurrected.

Your Sister in the Lord

I have been born again, and you do greatly err in your understanding. The Old testament saints and prophets knew Christ, because Gods Son has always been His Word;David called Him Lord by the Holy Spirit remember?

Also Abraham was born again of Gods Spirit, and received the sign of circumcision. That sign was given to Abraham as a sign of the circumcision of the heart, as Abram was also given a new name by the Lord.

Abraham is the father of the faith...Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Also, you do err not knowing the scriptures concerning who is going to heaven and serving the Lord, as it is not limited to the 144,000 as you suggest.

Revelation 7:9-17

King James Version (KJV)

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.


Where is Gods throne?



Psalm 11:4
The Lord is in his holy temple, the Lord's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Where's Abraham?

Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Der Alte]

So what is the Big lie of orthodoxy? It is the belief that God the Father is fully man. Sounds bazaar right? Well that is what is being accepted as orthodox Christianity, accepted as truth, and is also being enforced in these forums.

And you have not said anything to contradict this.

Now the orthodoxy will say, well scripture says “the Word was God” and that is true, because God is a God of His Word, and that is also how God expresses Himself and also reveals Himself to us; as God also made His Word Lord.

When one changes what the Bible says they can prove almost anything. "the Word was God" does NOT mean the same thing as "God is a God of His Word."

Now the scriptures don’t call the Word of God “the only begotten God of God” does it? No, the Word of God is the only begotten Son of God. But the orthodoxy wants to bypass the Son, and go directly to the Father, making Mary “the mother of God”; which also suggests God is fully man.

Actually the scripture does call the Word of God "the only begotten God" The oldest most reliable manuscripts at John 1:18 read ο μονογενης θεος/O monogenes Theos. That is why modern versions do not read "only begotten son"

NASB Joh 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

ISV Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God. The unique God, who is close to the Father's side, has revealed him.

NIV Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

Wuest John 1:18 Absolute deity in its essence no one has ever yet seen. God uniquely-begotten, He who is in the bosom of the Father, that One fully explained deity.

CEV Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.

Net John 1:18 No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.​

 

[Phantasman]

The Old testament saints and prophets knew Christ, because Gods Son has always been His Word;David called Him Lord by the Holy Spirit remember?

If they knew the truth (Christ), there would be no reason for him to come in the flesh.

John 10
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.


They were sinful men, who heard of the truth, but could never be anointed of it.(in spirit).

Christ was the first truth and the only truth. Those before him I do not hear.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

They were sinful men, who heard of the truth, but could never be anointed of it.(in spirit).

Christ was the first truth and the only truth. Those before him I do not hear.

If you do not hear the law and prophets, then you do not hear Christ as well; because they testified of Him.

The old testament prophets all were anointed by the Holy Spirit, and spake by the spirit of prophecy (which is the Spirit of Christ). God anointed them with His Spirit and put His words in their mouths.

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

1 Peter 1:10-11

King James Version (KJV)

10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.



Revelation 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

So those prophets who God put His Word and Spirit into, also had the testimony of Christ dwelling in them.

Just as those who are born again of Gods seed are made new wine skins, and are able to receive the new spiritual wine of the new testament; who also have the testimony of Jesus Christ in them.

Isaiah 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

And you have not said anything to contradict this.



When one changes what the Bible says they can prove almost anything. "the Word was God" does NOT mean the same thing as "God is a God of His Word."



Actually the scripture does call the Word of God "the only begotten God" The oldest most reliable manuscripts at John 1:18 read ο μονογενης θεος/O monogenes Theos. That is why modern versions do not read "only begotten son"

NASB Joh 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

ISV Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God. The unique God, who is close to the Father's side, has revealed him.

NIV Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

Wuest John 1:18 Absolute deity in its essence no one has ever yet seen. God uniquely-begotten, He who is in the bosom of the Father, that One fully explained deity.

CEV Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.

Net John 1:18 No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.​

So if no one has ever seen God the Father at any time, then how can people say God is fully man? Men have flesh and bone and can be seen right?

If God the Father was made flesh, and was fully man as people suggest, then certainly someone would have literally seen God the Father right?

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Even Jesus confesses the same.


The words of God do not promote confusion, it is mans understanding of the scriptures that promote confusion.

What I am preaching is in harmony with the words of God, and that is....the Word of God was made flesh.

The Word of God is the Son of God.

 

[Der Alte]

So if no one has ever seen God the Father at any time, then how can people say God is fully man? Men have flesh and bone and can be seen right?

If God the Father was made flesh, and was fully man as people suggest, then certainly someone would have literally seen God the Father right? [Strawman! DA]

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Even Jesus confesses the same.

The words of God do not promote confusion, it is mans understanding of the scriptures that promote confusion.

What I am preaching is in harmony with the words of God, and that is....the Word of God was made flesh.

The Word of God is the Son of God.

I'm not confused about the Word of God or the word of God. What I teach is in complete harmony with the words of God.

NIV Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.​

Jesus is God. Isaiah said he saw God, John said Isaiah saw Jesus.

Joh 12:37 Even after Jesus had done all these miraculous signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him.
38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet:
"Lord, who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" [Isa 53:1]
39 For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere:
40 "He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."[Isa 6:10]
41 Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him. [Isa 6:1]​

I must have missed where you addressed my post?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The Son of God is the express image of God the Father, but that image is inward, not outward as in the flesh.

For no man has ever seen the face of God, neither can any man look upon the face of God and live.

Exodus 33:17-21

King James Version (KJV)

17 And the Lord said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.
18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
21 And the Lord said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:


Jesus Christ is the Rock, Jesus Christ is the glory of the Father.


The Rock of ages was clift for thee!




2 Samuel 22:3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.

2 Samuel 22:47 The Lord liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.

The Rock was clift, and living waters gushed out.

Numbers 20:8 Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.

That Rock was Christ...

1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

We beheld the Fathers glory as did Moses.


John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[x141]

Jesus is God. Isaiah said he saw God, John said Isaiah saw Jesus.

There is a difference between the function (if you could use such a feebly word) between spirit and soul.

An example ...

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

For Jesus, his soul and spirit were one, or his soul was a garden enclosed, so if you seen him (not physical sight) you've seen the Father, but yet he desired to return to where he came from before the world was and defined this as being restored to the glory he had with his Father as being the Father's own self which ties into the individuality of every son in relationship to their Father.

 

[Der Alte]

I'm not confused about the Word of God or the word of God. What I teach is in complete harmony with the words of God.

NIV Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.​

Jesus is God. Isaiah said he saw God, John said Isaiah saw Jesus.

Joh 12:37 Even after Jesus had done all these miraculous signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him.
38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet:
"Lord, who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" [Isa 53:1]
39 For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere:
40 "He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."[Isa 6:10]
41 Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him. [Isa 6:1]​

I must have missed where you addressed my post?

There is a difference between the function (if you could use such a feebly word) between spirit and soul.

An example ...

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

For Jesus, his soul and spirit were one, or his soul was a garden enclosed, so if you seen him (not physical sight) you've seen the Father, but yet he desired to return to where he came from before the world was and defined this as being restored to the glory he had with his Father as being the Father's own self which ties into the individuality of every son in relationship to their Father.

How does this post respond to mine which you quoted part of?

 

[x141]

How does this post respond to mine which you quoted part of?

I was not responding to the whole post just to the few words I quoted.

 

[Phantasman]

If you do not hear the law and prophets, then you do not hear Christ as well; because they testified of Him.

It "appears" that way. Their "prince of peace" brought division. And crucified Christ.

I'm surprised that the physical importance of the OT isn't realized by the spiritual teachings of Christ. The Jews "still" fight (and kill) over land. And many "Christians" back it.

Christ made the physical law (Torah) a spiritual law (found on love).

There is nothing in the OT that explains the Fathers wisdom that his son taught. When Christ said "he who has ears", he didn't mean to listen (and understand) physically. Everyone has ears.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

It "appears" that way. Their "prince of peace" brought division. And crucified Christ.

I'm surprised that the physical importance of the OT isn't realized by the spiritual teachings of Christ. The Jews "still" fight (and kill) over land. And many "Christians" back it.

Christ made the physical law (Torah) a spiritual law (found on love).

There is nothing in the OT that explains the Fathers wisdom that his son taught. When Christ said "he who has ears", he didn't mean to listen (and understand) physically. Everyone has ears.

The law was always spiritual, but the mind of man is carnal and cannot hear the law, as Paul also confirmed.

It's only by the Holy Spirit one can have the veil of the fleshy mind removed in order to see the true spiritual things in the law.

Psalm 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Isaiah 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

That is the body and blood of Christ, for the blood of Christ speaks of better things than that of Abel.

 

[x141]

It "appears" that way. Their "prince of peace" brought division. And crucified Christ.

I'm surprised that the physical importance of the OT isn't realized by the spiritual teachings of Christ. The Jews "still" fight (and kill) over land. And many "Christians" back it.

Christ made the physical law (Torah) a spiritual law (found on love).

There is nothing in the OT that explains the Fathers wisdom that his son taught. When Christ said "he who has ears", he didn't mean to listen (and understand) physically. Everyone has ears.

Because you can't see it does not mean it is not there ...

 

[Phantasman]

Because you can't see it does not mean it is not there ...

My thoughts exactly on those scriptures not placed into mans Canon.

 

[Phantasman]

It's only by the Holy Spirit one can have the veil of the fleshy mind removed in order to see the true spiritual things in the law.

So Christ says he will divide fathers and sons, mothers and daughters, and the law says to honor mother and father. Christ healed on the sabbath, which the "law' followers said was wrong.

Some find ways to make the law Christs law. Some see what he was doing to refine the law. His two commandments of love gave us a spiritual law, over imposing the old law.

Matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.


It appears the law wasn't enough.



Romans 13


8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Paul doesn't speak of honoring parents or keeping sabbath's. But all commandments are covered by love, which starts with the spirit.