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The Antichrist

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by john316, Nov 25, 2001.

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  1. celtic_crusader

    celtic_crusader Crusading Against Jihad

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    I always saw the anti-christ as a religious person because he shall decieve the nations and sit in the temple of god saying he is god.

    I supose I figured it would be a so called christ that will claim to be christ.


    the false prophet , well , I wondered if that was mohomad.

    the vatican reign was only around after the fall of rome for a couple of hundred years before mohomad started islam. I wonder is john was talking about the two of them.

    I never thaught it would be someone like a hitler but hitler did try to do away with god and put his 1000 yr reign in and make himself a god.

    I wonder.

    the antichrist can`t be far off now though hay THUNDER , who ever he is.

    the pope is old and if the next pope trys to bring the RCC back into popular religion he could muster alot of power in this world.

    I wait anxiously for the new pope. I will watch him because the kings of the earth are hotting things up to bring about there agenda.

    revelations also says , " the kings of the earth give her the power to reign."

    I think that the anti christ is the last card to be played by this agenda and he will be the next pope.

    or maybe I am wrong.

    thats the thing with prophesy I supose???

    just my thaughts on the subject :D

    celtic.
     
  2. jbenjesus

    jbenjesus <font color="blue">Berean</font>

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    Christian
    Thanks for commenting.

    My apologies to you if I offended you. Yes I am straightforward, but I have condemned no one here. I like to know where people stand and why so I start by asking questions.

    I would ask that you read my posts again and know that I have readily admitted that I don't know it all and that I still have many questions, but as I said before, I try not to allow my preconceived notions to lead me to the truth. I rather allow the truth to create the paradigm of what I should expect, in regards to all things including a "great tribulation" to come, if that "great tribulation" so popularly prophesied should come.

    Get to know me a little more and you'll see that, I'm sure. ;)

    Jesus bless you.
     
  3. Willis Deal

    Willis Deal Member

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    I don't see the pope as the anti-christ, perhaps the false prophet but not the AC. For one thing the Jews are going to look at the guy as fulfilling the role of the long awaited messiah. Son of David, etc. It is beond reasonable belief that the Jews are going to accept the pope as messiah... I just don't see it happening.

    Also, the AC will be a war vet, being crippled during combat. Not likely to be traits of a Pope who will have dedicated his life to the catholic church.

    This one is pure speculation but we often see Satan imitating and perverting what God has done. I suspect the AC's life to closely paralell the life of Christ, if so, we would expect him to be way too young to be a pope.
     
  4. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

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    Hello celtic crusader,
    I think it is important to remember that Satan is imitating God, and not only God, but also the Holy Trinity. The Holy Trinity includes God the Father, Christ His Son, and the Holy Spirit. Satan is the father of lies, the anti-christ is the son of sin, and the false prophet will be the un-holy spirit, or lying prophet.

    There is a jewish cardinal in line, and waiting to become the next Pope. I will see if I can pull up another link on this. Stand by>>>>
     
  5. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

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    http://www.adventistradio.com/new_news/JewishPope.htm

    Here it is, Praise God I was able to find it. And also that I learned how to post these links. Click on this and check this guy out. He is a Jew, but he was raised Catholic. He very well could be the next one, and I would suspect that he will be. But- I am not saying that it will definately be him. Who am I to say?? But it sure would fit the puzzle.
     
  6. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +0
    When I was young, I used to hear from my Seventh Day Adventist friends that the Pope is the AntiChrist because his Tiara had a name composed of Roman numerls which when added totals 666, the number of the AntiChrist. That name is VICARIUS FILI DEI which means VICAR of God or representative of God on earth. The Pope doesn't wear this hat publicly anymore. And of course I don't blame him.

    The Bible identifies one who HAS the SPIRIT of the antiChrist as one who does NOT confess that Jesus CAME in the flesh or as a human being (1 John 4:3).

    ANTI means "against" or "contra." Thus, AntiChrist means "AGAINST Christ."

    Jesus says he is a MAN (John 8:40) and the FATHER is the ONLY true God (John 17:3).

    I say "Jesus is God. Am I WITH Christ or am I AGAINST Christ? Of course anyone who has the intellect to be on these boards can UNDERSTAND that I am AGAINST Christ. Thus, I have the SPIRIT of the AntiChrist.

    But who is the AntiChrist whose SPIRIT I have?

    The dotrine that Jesus is God was fomulated and affirmed by a Council of Bishops (who called themselves Catholic) convened by the Emperor Constantine in Nicea in 325 AD.

    The same Council of Bishops also formulated and affirmed the Trinity doctrine at the Council of Constantinopole in 381 AD.

    This group of Catholic Bishops became the nucleus of what is now known as the Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church which replaced the church of Christ, as apostle Paul called the members during his time (Romans 16:16), AFTER apostle Paul died.

    Thus, to me, the AntiChrist is the Pope who is the HEAD of the Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church IN CONTRAST to Christ who is the HEAD of the church of Christ, his BODY (Col. 1:18).

    Ed
     
  7. celtic_crusader

    celtic_crusader Crusading Against Jihad

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    willis,
    why do you say this??? is there bible for this????



    well now, looky hear.

    thank THUNDER. I will check this out very carfuly. :)

    I have wondered about the anti christ needing to be a jew if he were to convinse anyone that he is the christ but I thaught it could mean a pope because he is a christian and that would make him a jew through christ but this puts a whole new light on things.

    we live in interesting times.

    edpobre,
    I have also come across this stuff you talk about and can verify the history but VICARIUS FILI DEI actualy means , "the vicor of the son of god" in latin and if you put roman (or latin) numerals to this name it commes to 666.

    there was one part hear that I think I might have missunderstood.


    did I understand this, are you saying that you have an anti christ sperit hear????

    why would you say this edpobre??? are you against christ even though you believe in god???

    why would you do that???? espesialy if you know you can`t win???

    thanks

    celtic.
     
  8. solo66 man

    solo66 man Well-Known Member

    +2
    Just a note on the Pope being Jewish, did you know the first fifteen Popes were Jews?

    Also, anyone not believing or against Christ is part of or is the anti-Christ.
     
  9. celtic_crusader

    celtic_crusader Crusading Against Jihad

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    to my knowledge , there has never been a jewish pope.

    Date of the first Pope Emperors (I don`t believe any of these are jewish.

    Date

    311–314

    Melchiades

    Constantine I, or The Great

    306 (323)–337

    314–335

    Silvester I

    336–337

    Marcus

    Constantine II (in Gaul)

    337–340

    337–352

    Julius I

    Constantius II (In the East)

    337–350

    Constans (In Italy)

    "

    352–66

    Liberius


    357

    Filix II, Antipope

    Constantius Alone

    350–361


    Julian

    361–363


    Jovian

    363–364

    366–843

    Damasus

    Valentinian I

    364–375

    Valens

    364–378


    hay solo , it has just occured to me that you may be starting the line of the popes from peter through.

    that is not accurate , for a start , james the just was the leader of the church before peter.

    besides , those two jews were the first two christian leaders and never took any title like "POPE" wich is to say "FATHER" witch would be directly against there lords commandments to call no man father because your father is in heaven.


    the actual birth of the roman catholic church was around the time of constantine , the roman emporor that became a christian and soon after made christianity the state religion of rome.

    through the council at nicea the roman catholic church established there foundations.

    the line of popes has to start from between 300 and 400 yrs ad , any other estimation is a twist of history.

    sorry for being so straight. but there was not ever this many jews as popes , not even among all the popes over the last 1700 yrs.


    even in the roman catholic line of succesion they say peter is first and that Linus was second and lenus was italian and not jewish.


    Linus, Saint [

    Linus, Saint , d. A.D. 76?, pope (A.D. 67?–A.D. 76?), martyr, an Italian; successor of St. Peter and predecessor of St. Cletus (or Anacletus). Nothing is known of his life, but he has been (as early as 189) identified with the biblical Linus. Feast: Sept. 23.


    :D :D sorry but the third so caled pope was a roman and not a jew either solo. ;)

    Cletus or Anacletus, Saint

    Cletus or Anacletus, Saint , d. A.D. 88?, pope (A.D. 76?–A.D. 88?), martyr, a Roman; successor of St. Linus and predecessor of St. Clement I. Feast: Apr. 26.


    and again :)

    the all poullar Clement , a roman again solo.

    Clement I, Saint, or Clement of Rome , d. A.D. 97?, pope (A.D. 88?–A.D. 97?), martyr; successor of St. Cletus. He may have known the apostles Peter and Paul and was a highly esteemed


    solo , were did you get your infomation????

    celtic.
     
  10. Willis Deal

    Willis Deal Member

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    celtic crusader,

    Forgive me for making an asumptive statement. It has been awhile since I've studied all this and I was going on memory and the impressions I got when first reading the passage. (I should add that I interpret prophecy in a literal sense whenever possible.) The verse I'm refering to is found in:

    Zech 11:15-17

    15 And the LORD said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd. 16 For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces. 17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

    While this verse doesn't state that the foolish shepherd is a war vet there is that implication so perhaps my offense is forgiveable.
     
  11. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

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    He could be assasinated, but I don't think the bible goes into detail about that.
     
  12. Willis Deal

    Willis Deal Member

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    Good point, the injuries mentioned could be a connection to the deadly head wound which many interpret to be an assassination attempt.
     
  13. celtic_crusader

    celtic_crusader Crusading Against Jihad

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    hi willis,
    there is nothing to forgive you for as you havn`t done anything wrong.

    inform yes but forgive , well you seem pritty genuane to me , bless you.

    you also bring up a fare point about Zech 11:15-17 .

    thunder brings even a more interesting point by combining the two scriptures.

    hmmm, that is worth looking into.

    thanks

    celtic.
     
  14. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +0
    You're right celtic. VICARIUS FILI DEI means VICAR of the son of God or VICAR of Christ (1570). Since the Pope believes that Christ is God, then he is appropriating for himself the title of VICAR of God.

    The Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary defines VICAR as "one serving as a SUBSTITUTE". The same dictionary defines VICARIUS as "serving instead of someone."

    Hence, VICAR of the son of God or VICAR of Christ has the effect of being VICAR of God or SUBSTITUTE of God on earth. Thus, the POPE is called Holiest FATHER of Spirits or Most Holy Spiritual Father and the priests are called Reverend Spiritual Fathers. And that's also the reason why Catholics confess their sins to priests.

    Does Christ or God need a SUBSTITUTE on earth?

    Christ has UNCHANGEABLE priesthood and according to the Bible, he is the ONLY mediator between God and men (1 Tim. 2:5) who can sympathize with our weakness (Heb. 4:14-15). Christ does not need a substitute on earth.

    And God being averywhere, does not need a substitute on earth.

    I was only trying to make a point celtic. A lot of people say they believe in God but they have no fear about going AGAINST what Jesus says. Jesus says he is a MAN but they say he is God. They are those who have the spirit of the AntiChrist.

    Can they be AntiChrists yet they profess belief in God? Sure! 2 Cor. 11:13-15 tells us that Satan and his ministers also TRANSFORM themselves into angels of light.

    Thus not everyone who preaches the word of God is OF God. For all you know, they are ministers of Satan.

    Ed
     
  15. celtic_crusader

    celtic_crusader Crusading Against Jihad

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    I see edpobre, I think :D

    even jesus said to the preachers and leaders of his time , "You are of your father the devil".

    are you saying that anyone that mistakenly see`s jesus as god is an anti christ????

    hear are all the direct uses of the word anti christ , all spoken by john in his small apistles.




    1 John 2:17-19 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.


    22
    Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
    23
    Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.



    2 John 1:6-8 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


    1 John 4
    2
    Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
    3
    And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


    1 John 2
    21
    I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.



    is the lie that is not of the truth that jesus was god in flesh?????

    these scriptures can be alittle missleading and I for one havn`t been shore of exactly what john meant by the way he says ,"Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
    3
    And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: "


    this makes what this means alittle clearer by saying,"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son."


    this gives the impresion that an antichrist is someone that doesn`t believe in jesus christ even if they do believe in god.

    they denie that jesus was the christ. thats the impression that I am getting.

    the RCC doesn`t denie that jesus is the christ though , even if they do denie him through giving the pope his position.

    I think that makes a good antichrist , someone that claimes to sit in his seat and that they are infalible but that doesn`t apear to be what john is saying about the antichrist????


    celtic.
     
  16. Yauming

    Yauming Member

    368
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    Yes, that is very true. And it seems as you point out, that even if you took Peter as the first pope, the rest that followed him were probably not Jewish but Roman.

    I'm not too sure when exactly the Roman Catholic church started abandoning the concept of salvation by grace/faith though. But things probably started going downhill when they emphasized the importance of praying to Mary and the power of the Pope and Priests.

    Cheers,

    YM



     
  17. celtic_crusader

    celtic_crusader Crusading Against Jihad

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    Actually, I am of the impression that it was around and after the nicean council in 325 ad when the emperor Constantine became a Christian and the state religion of rome became Christian but to do this they had to amalgamate the roman Martha religion with Christianity and therefore all the Christian temples in rome were old temples that were once dedicated to the goddess and other gods. There are a lot of things that took place over the next hundred years to bring in a world-dominating pagan Christianity.

    Worshipping Mary came from the dreads and other barbarian tribes also and eventually Christianity won over on these tribes and there old ways became a part of Christianity.

    All this happened from about 200 to 500 AD.

    These were the times of the legends of king Arthur of the Britons, the lady of the lake and Avalon. (I believe that stonehenge was used by the druids to worship the goddess)

    I have studied these legends and they are about as true as the legend of Elvis Presley to me.

    If you know history and the story of the true legions then you will see that it is most likely history and not just legend.

    I’m getting of the track abit hear because I not only find this relevant but interesting too.

    Hopefully others will be interested too:D

    If you can picture the times when king Arthur was the king of the Britons and he was fighting the Saxons.

    The lady of the lake was the high priestess of the fertility cult and Avalon was there paridise.

    Now, the problems for Arthur were that he needed to balance his kingdom with the new religion of Christianity and the old ways of the goddess.

    This was hard for Arthur because he on one hand wanted to embrace Christianity for Gwenevieve his wife and for the powers that were.

    The problem was that he had been produced through the old ways, the lady of the lake (the priestess) and merlin (a wizard of the old way) had brought about his birth and upbringing and he was obligated to them.

    So, Arthur settles for balancing the two religions and brings about great prosperity that would soon come crashing down because it was all done by manipulation and eventually the evil ways or methods of marlin and the lady of the lake would claps around them and the Saxons would take the land and the old ways of the goddess would disappear forever.

    (What was there evil; they both had a part in Arthur’s birth that involved adultery and murder and Arthur came from that. Then they secretly placed Arthur and his sister mogan in a fertility ritual were there faces were covered and they had been separated from a young age, so from Arthur and his sister having sex and mogan has her brothers child so eventualy this incestuous son (mordruid )grows up and sided with the Saxons to over through the Britons in a battle were mordruid and king Arthur killed each other and the saxons take the land , throne and the lot..)

    BUT

    There goddess didn`t disappear, they like other goddess religions of the barbarians infiltrated the church and that is the goddess comes from were the barbarians were concerned.

    Rome however also worshiped the goddess of the Martha religions of Rome around the time of the fall of Rome and so she also comes from there.

    The prayers they used to pray to these goddesses are identical to how the Catholics pray to her today.

    The same as the prayers to the great Diana of the Ephesians.

    I probably went the long way hear, but I thought it could be interesting.

    It is to me ;) am I alone on that??
     
  18. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

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    This would be a good time for me to throw in a couple more cents worth. I most definately believe that Jesus was and is God. His story didn't begin in the manger. He only came here to earth to die. To save the lost and dying world. He was also Creator.
    Gen. 1:26 - Then God said,"Let US make man in OUR image, in OUR likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." >>>>> So Jesus was there in the very beginning. The Son of man was also the Son of God, also known as the Word. You can read about Jesus the creator in John 1:1-5.
     
  19. Optimus_P

    Optimus_P Super Umpa Lumpa

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    Let us not fall off the path of the current conversation. there is already a topic on Is Jesus God in the interfaith forum. Please keep this topic on track and let not let it get hijacked.
     
  20. Yauming

    Yauming Member

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    Hi,

    I also read the stories of King Arthur. But they were largely considered works of fiction. Some of it was real but most of it were stories and fables obtained from different sources in Europe and Ancient Britain.

    For example, the story of Lancelot and King Arthur's wife was obtained from a seperate Gaulish legend. The Lady of the Lake and other supernatural stories were old Celtic myths and legends.

    If you can point me the books which you read on King Arthur, I'd appreciate that thanks.

    God bless,

    YM


     
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