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The Antichrist

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by john316, Nov 25, 2001.

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  1. VeraciousMaven

    VeraciousMaven Jesus Saves!

    753
    +2
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought that in Matthew 16:18 Jesus was talking specifically to Peter. And in John 20:23 Jesus was talking specifically to the disciples.

    BTW, Osama wouldn't be a very effective Anti-Christ! :p
     
  2. Yauming

    Yauming Member

    368
    +1
    It seems that he is talking to Peter... but was Jesus referring to Peter the human being or something else, i.e. his faith?

    If you read a little further Jesus also calls Peter "Satan" Read Matthew 16:23.

    As for John 20:23, the Catholics use it as the rationale for the role and power of their Priests. Think about it. Who has the power to forgive sins- human beings or God?

    I see John 20:23 as this: Jesus was telling the disciples that as messengers of God they held the power of the Gospel in their hands. If they preached it, if we tell and live the gospel, it will have a powerful effect on the unsaved - bringing them to the saving grace of God. Or in effect be forgiven.




     
  3. VeraciousMaven

    VeraciousMaven Jesus Saves!

    753
    +2
    Can you clarify what you mean here ... I'm a little ignorant as to what your intent was.

    Er ... what I mean is, how does Jesus calling Peter 'Satan' in a later verse have much to do with Jesus telling Peter that he would build his church upon him--and actually mean 'build my church upon christians/catholics (someone else)'?

    God ...

    I see ... at first I thought you were trying to use John 20:23 to justify how only priests can forgive someone of their sins. But now I see what you're saying or do I?
     
  4. Yauming

    Yauming Member

    368
    +1
    I'm not Catholic nor am I trying to justify their theology. I'm just trying to explain it and why some of their interpretations are wrong. The Roman Catholics consider Peter as the first Pope and that Jesus had invested in Peter/ Pope an awesome power. I'm just trying to explain why this theory is erronous.

    I doubt that God intended His Kingdom (not just the church mind you) on brash, overconfident fisherman.

    In Matthew 16, Jesus calling Peter "Satan" straight afterwards simply show that Peter, the man, is not the ROCK on which the Kingdom of God will be built on.

    Jesus simply is referring to the supernatural *faith* that Peter exhibited when he called him the Christ. That is what God will build his church on : the faith that comes not from human inspiration but given from God.
     
  5. VeraciousMaven

    VeraciousMaven Jesus Saves!

    753
    +2
    Interesting. I don't think I've heard anyone put it that way before. Thanks for the insite! :)
     
  6. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

    +8
    United States
    Protestant
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Well it seems this is the end of this thread, and I don't want to leave you all hangin, as to who I think the AC is. I believe that Jodi is hot on the trail. His initials are even JC. We will never be able to prove it, but I would watch Jaun Carlos of Spain. Just today, I heard on the christian news that Spain is sending a rep. to the Middle East to talk peace. His first stop was to be in Jordan, and then Jerusalem. His name has been calculated in ten different languages, each time his number added to 666. There are too many things that point to him, but I don't have much spase or time to go into all. One thing that was odd though, He put a name on the back of his boat, The Dragon. A guy that has kept a low prophile, but still seems to have his hand in ALL the cookie jars. If anyone really wants to know more, I could tell you where a pretty good thread is, on a different web site. That's all for now...>>>>>>>rollinTHUNDER
     
  7. SOS

    SOS Member

    195
    +1
    Interesting info. I'm going to do some research on this guy now. Thanks.
     
  8. SOS

    SOS Member

    195
    +1
    [​IMG]

    Interesting...
     
  9. SOS

    SOS Member

    195
    +1
    Here we go, from a website I found:



    King Juan Carlos of Spain Top Candidate for Antichrist
    --And the Reasons Why
    by Douglas James Bender

    In these times, like others before, many are claiming that they have identified the Antichrist. Napoleon, Hitler, Mussolini, Gorbachev, and even Reagan are some who have been "identified" as the Antichrist. Now, however, with the apparent decrease of U.S. influence in the Middle East peace process, due to the negative relations currently between President Clinton and Yasser Arafat, a leader of the "Revived Roman Empire" (the European Union, it would seem) appears ready to fulfill the prophecy of Daniel 9:27 regarding the "'prince who is to come'" who shall "'confirm a treaty with many for one week'" (where "one week" means "7 years").

    The Bible indicates, in Daniel 7:23-25, that this "'prince who is to come'" will be the leader of, apparently, the 11th nation to join what is referred to as the "Revived Roman Empire". The European Union, given its form as a "union" of nations from the Old Roman Empire, and given its "arising" during the same generation that witnessed both Israel becoming a nation in 1948 A.D. and Israel regaining control of the holiest sites of Jerusalem in 1967 A.D., is quite likely the fulfillment of the prophecy of the "beast with 10 horns" described in Daniel 7. The "'prince who is to come'", the Antichrist, will apparently be the ruler of the 11th nation to join this "Beast".

    If the European Union is the fulfillment of the "beast with 10 horns" of Daniel 7:7, then the Antichrist will be the ruler of the 11th nation to have joined that Union. Spain was the 11th nation to join the European Union, and the current ruler of Spain is King Juan Carlos. It appears to be quite likely that King Juan Carlos of Spain is the Antichrist.

    King Juan Carlos was born in Rome, Italy on January 5, 1938 A.D.. His full name is, "Juan Carlos Alfonso Victor Maria de Borbon y Borbon". His father's full name was, "Juan Carlos Teresa Silverio Alfonso de Borbon y Borbon". His father was in exile from Spain while Francisco Franco ruled Spain following Franco's overthrow of the Spanish monarchy. Juan Carlos (the son), from the age of 10, was personally trained under Franco's direction, and graduated from all three of Spain's military academies.

    In 1962 A.D., Juan Carlos married Princess Sophia of Greece, and they had two daughters, and a son (Felipe). Juan Carlos was appointed Franco's successor as ruler of Spain, against the wishes of Juan Carlos' father, who still laid claim to the throne of Spain. In November of 1975 A.D., Juan Carlos became king of Spain after Franco's death. Juan Carlos is a highly respected and honored king and "statesman", having led Spain through a crisis in 1981 A.D. when some of the military sought to wrest control of Spain from the monarchy.

    According to Daniel 9:27, the "'prince who is to come'" (the Antichrist) shall "'confirm a treaty with many for one week'". A recent news report (Reuters - August 12, 2000 A.D.) stated that Israel is requesting that King Juan Carlos help "mediate" the current Middle East peace process between Israel and several of Israel's Arab enemies, primarily the PLO. The news report stated that those involved were hoping the planned meeting in Spain in early 2001 A.D. (or perhaps before) would "consolidate" the peace process. The term, "consolidate", is a synonym for "confirm", and means to "strengthen". What is also interesting in regard to Spain and the Middle East peace process is that the peace process began in Madrid, Spain in 1991 A.D..

    Spain is not only deeply involved in the Middle East peace process directly, but also in several significant "indirect" ways. The Secretary-General of NATO since 1995 A.D., the person who makes the military decisions for NATO, has been Javier Solana, the former Spanish foreign minister. NATO would likely be the "military force", under the United Nations, and representing the European Union, which would "oversee" any kind of peace agreement between Israel and the Arabs.

    Also, the European Union appointed a special representative to the Middle East peace process, having the title, "European Union Special Envoy to the Middle East peace process". This "EU Special Envoy" is Miguel Moratinos, the former Spanish ambassador to Israel.

    Interestingly, a former ambassador to Spain, Shlomo Ben-Ami, is Israel's representative in seeking King Juan Carlos' "mediation" in the peace talks. So, there are at least three separate ways Spain is "indirectly" involved in the Middle East peace process.

    Thus, King Juan Carlos, as the leader of Spain, is quite "involved", actually, in the Middle East peace process. As mentioned before, one of the primary descriptions of the Antichrist in the Bible is as the "'prince who is to come'" who shall "'confirm a treaty with many for one week'" in Daniel 9:27. King Juan Carlos, based on the evidence presented, could quite likely fulfill this prophecy by "consolidating" the Middle East peace process.

    Another prophecy in the Bible regarding the Antichrist is found in Revelation 13:18, where the "Beast" is the Antichrist. Revelation 13:18 (New King James Version) says, "Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666." Revelation 13:17 identifies this "number of the beast" as the "number of his name". King Juan Carlos has versions of his name in 10 languages, each using the same numbering system (except for Latin, which uses the Roman numeral system), which each add to 666.

    The languages in which King Juan Carlos has versions of his name which add to 666 are the following: Hebrew, Greek (two ways), Latin, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, French, German, and Russian. Except for Latin, each of these versions uses the Hebrew/Greek numbering system, which is as follows: 1,2,3,...,9;10,20,30,...,90;100,200,300,...,900. The spelling in at least two or three of the versions is questionable, though not unreasonable; and the French version is perhaps unlikely, though possible.

    The English version of King Juan Carlos' name which adds to 666 is: "(John) Charles V of Spain". "John" is placed in parentheses in order to be able to "identify" him as "Charles V", the fifth king of Spain with the name, "Charles".

    The version which is most likely the fulfillment of Revelation 13:18, based on several indications, is the "Scriptural" Greek version (which uses no "obsolete" Greek letters for numbers). That version is, in Spanish: "Juan Carlos de Borbon II". In "Scriptural" Greek, this becomes: "Ioann Karlos de Borbon B".

    (One interesting side note: King Juan Carlos' son, Felipe, has a version of his name which adds to 666 in "Scriptural" Greek. That version is, in Spanish: "Felipe de Borbon II" [he would be, should he become king, the second Bourbon king of Spain with the name, "Philip" {"Felipe"}]. In "Scriptural" Greek, this becomes: "Feliph de Borbon B". [Prince Felipe was born in 1968 A.D..])

    So, several prophecies of the Bible appear to indicate that the Antichrist will be the ruler of Spain; and Spain is rather involved in the Middle East peace process. These facts, combined with the versions of King Juan Carlos' name in 10 languages, particularly in "Scriptural" Greek, which each add to 666 using the same numbering system (except for Latin, which uses the Roman numeral system), strongly suggest that King Juan Carlos is the Antichrist. I, personally, believe that he is.

    Revelation 22:21 "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."
     
  10. KenOGar24

    KenOGar24 New Member

    33
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    I assume this is in response to my reply to the "Choose one and pass it on" post?
    I very much detest the WWF and won't apologize for saying that I don't believe any Christian should watch it (much less allow their kids). The WWF is a detestable organization that targets youth with sex and violence (that is not opinion). Idonlikeit!

    If your post had nothing to do with my post about the WWF, SORRY! :D

    Please don't read me the wrong way...I love my brothers and sisters. I've been very weak lately and know that I really have no right to tell anybody anything. But I just feel SO strongly about the way things in the world pull at ME and my family (physical, yes, but I'm speaking more of my spiritual family) and I get angry. (I don't think anger is sin if you're angry at the right things...not that I always am)...I love all of you who are believers in Christ and look forward to meeting every one of you one day...and I'm tired of being deceived and seeing those I love deceived by this stinking world!

    Do you know what I mean or am I just rambling?
     
  11. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

    +8
    United States
    Protestant
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Great job S.O.S.,
    That was one of the ones I read, but there is still more. I wish I knew how to pull these links up. But , then again, that might be dangerous. Maybe I'm a little too bold. I never was one to beat around the bush. You are an asset to this forum. Many heads are much, much better than one. You can see very easily how knowledge will be increased in these last days- through these computers......>>>>>>>rollinTHUNDER
     
  12. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

    +8
    United States
    Protestant
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Hey S.O.S.,
    There is one more very interesting thing about the AC, actually several more, but just one that I want to point out. Have you ever known or noticed who is the President of the European Union? This is very odd. They don't have elections. Their leadership changes hands every 6 months, and they rotate. I would call it Political Volleyball. Does anyone have any idea when it will be Spains turn to be the boss? The answer, VERY SOON.
    I believe he will take the helm on July 1st, this year. That's only 5 months away. This could be a VERY HOT summer. Glad we won't be here to endure his worldly wisdom.>>>>>>>rollinTHUNDER
     
  13. hagiadzo1999

    hagiadzo1999 New Member

    71
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    This is getting interesting....

    I love these discussions!

    ~N~
    <><
     
  14. cactusj

    cactusj New Member

    70
    +1
    Christian
    Hello all,
    I have a question--Jesus says no one knows when He will return-not even Himself--only the Father. So that would mean that Satan has no idea when Jesus will return. Therefore he (Satan) must always have "AntiChrist" ready. So I'm just thinking there has been someone ready to fill that position in the twinkling of an eye ever since the Ascension? What do ya'll think.
    Thanks
    Fredia
     
  15. Yauming

    Yauming Member

    368
    +1
    Well, hurray I agree with you. I don't watch it except when it flashes across the TV thru ads etc.. Its a total joke to put it mildly.

    But I suggest you re-read my post again.

    Anotherlet me explain. Giving a WWF attitude to someone is basically giving that person a complete bigoted (IN YOUR FACE!) attitude full of contempt, hatred, self-righteousness, judgemental etc.. It would be almost funny if it wasn't said with such seriousness.

    I'm afraid many Christians seem to behave like that towards unbelievers or other Christians who disagree with them on certain points of theology.

     
  16. dwm1120

    dwm1120 New Member

    33
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    Antichrist - Russian, Arab, Osama Bin Laden!!!! It is good to see that American propaganda is so effective.
     
  17. jbenjesus

    jbenjesus <font color="blue">Berean</font>

    165
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    Christian
    Greetings to all (this is my introduction since its my first post),

    I have questions for a lot of different people in this thread. A lot has been said and I don’t see anyone using scripture. Many are just sharing their opinion (or parroting what others have told them without studying for themselves to see if it be true). Reminds me of the kind of people on Mars Hill (Acts 17:18,21 – look it up).

    1st question: Yauming said on Dec. 13, 2001, referring to antichrist, “…and is the wilful agent for Satan. He's not just being manipulated - he is Satan's front man or his very embodiment in human form.”

    Could you share with us the scripture used to support this?
     
  18. jbenjesus

    jbenjesus <font color="blue">Berean</font>

    165
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    Christian
    2nd question: Kikid said on Dec. 18, 2001, “I repeat again that whoever this anti-christ will be will be loved by the world - a great and glorious religious leader bringing peace and harmony to a divided world.”

    Could you share with us the scripture used to support this?

    As for your comment, “We as Christians will be persecuted for not believing and loving him (I believe in post-trib rapture of the Church)”. You stated as if persecution is coming, but the reality of it is that history shows us that Christians have been persecuted for the last 1900+ years, as soon as Jesus and his Jewish apostles preached the gospel persecution began on the New Covenant Church, the bride of Christ.

    You also said, on Dec. 19, 2001, “I don't know if he's democratic..LOL

    all I know is whether its a person or a system of govt or religion, he/it will pretend to be God -- he will imitate The Messiah, and many will believe.....” Share the scriptures with us, please? Where is this information coming from.
     
  19. jbenjesus

    jbenjesus <font color="blue">Berean</font>

    165
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    Christian
    To rollinTHUNDER, who stated on Jan 1, 2002, “The True believers will already be in Heaven, and therefore be untouchable. Only the tribulation saints will be here then, and they too, will not be deceived either, because they will refuse the Mark of the Beast.”

    I thought you made a good point about the elect not being deceived. But why will true believers be in heaven and there still be tribulation saints on earth? Scripture please?


    You also said, “The Anti-Christ will come out of the revived Roman Empire (EU). This would eliminate O'Sorry Been Loser.” Where are you getting this in scripture?

    You also said this which relates to the above questions, “Hello Questioner,
    The answer can be found in Daniel 7:.....
    In Daniels vision of the Four Beasts we see Four Great Empires. 1st-The Babylonian Empire, 2nd- The Medo-Persian Empire, 3rd- The Greek Empire, 4th-The Roman Empire.
    It is this 4th Empire that will be revived, as 10 (horns) Kings will arise out of this former Empire, and a little horn (Anti-Christ) will rise up after.”

    You said of the four great empires that the 4th is the Roman empire. But than you said it was the revived Roman empire? Which is it and why?
     
  20. jbenjesus

    jbenjesus <font color="blue">Berean</font>

    165
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    Christian
    To Truthseeker, who said this on Jan. 7, 2002, “The only thing I can find is Daniel 8:25 >>> "and by peace he shall destroy many."” You consider this to be something to look to in our future? Really?

    If anyone would care to read Daniel 8:15-27. This is not talking about the 4th kingdom (Rome). It’s talking about the third kingdom (Greece). Verse 23 says that the angel is divulging to Daniel about the latter time of the kingdom of Greece, not Rome. This has nothing to do with the popular antichrist this thread is trying to find out about.
     
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