The 10 Commandments are done away!

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[tatteredsoul]

Is it servile work to generate electricity? If so why is it that you demand one to sin?

bugkiller

Are you SERVING someone using electricity?

Turning on the lights, using napkins, driving a car, using a phone, etc. - those little Sabbath rules and regulations by MAN make the Sabbath a burden, and warp it's purpose.

NO SERVILE WORK. Egypt was SERVILE work. This is why "servile" is so important - it goes back to Egypt. We aren't supposed to be slaves man, and at least one day will go to rset and devotion. This is why Sabbath was made for MAN, not the other way around.

Do you the Pharisees were right, and Christ violated the Sabbath by healing? That was their accusation, so did Christ sin?

 

[2 know him]

You still haven't shown where Christ said that God's law is null void or inert.

And, you aren't supposed to do SERVILE work.


Do you think Christ violated the Sabbath with His actions (and therefore, He violated the Law)? Were the pharisees right about Him?

Jesus acknowledged breaking the Sabbath: which part of my last post wherein Jesus stated "AND I WORK" was unclear?

 

[BABerean2]

You still haven't shown where Christ said that God's law is null void or inert.

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

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[2 know him]

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

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I showed what the term Christ means, as well as the Pharisees line of Questioning and the assumptions that are and must be drawn by both the line of questioning and Jesus responses. I also showed prophesies that clearly point to the New covenant not being the covenant that Moses made, as Jerimiah clearly stated and that Isaiah stated that the law was being awaited future tense, Jesus stated: the law and the prophets were until John and since that time the kingdom of John was being preached. What does it mean the law and the prophets were until John: unless the New Covenant was now in effect and the old one Ceased?

The mountain of evidence is so overwhelming that one would have to be blind or have their eyes closed not to see it.

 

[2 know him]

Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

The law demanded perfection So does Jesus, its just that Jesus shows us the way to that perfection is by mercy: changing the hardness of a man's heart into a heart of flesh by forcing a man to change his heart and seek forgiveness from God through forgiveness of others.

Bugkiller spoke well when he stated: "No. Moses did not give the Christian, especially the gentile Christian anything."

 

[tatteredsoul]

Jesus acknowledged breaking the Sabbath: which part of my last post wherein Jesus stated "AND I WORK" was unclear?

What is unclear is whether or not you believe the pharisees believed Christ''s "work" on the Sabbath was SERVILE, and actually broke the law.

In other words, do you believe Christ broke the law of the Sabbath healing people. You have not made yourself clear on that at all.

But, let not get ahead of the topic: I want to see where in the bible Christ SPECIFICALLY says that God''s law is null, void or inert to be followed. You have NOT provided that yet: you have provided circumlocution in the context of a quote here or there From Christ, and interpretations from other people.

But, I have yet to see anything in the bible, apocryphal or otherwise that even insinuates Christ, or God said the 10 commandments are null, void or inert to be followed. So, that is what I am asking for - not a long post or lecture. just show me one verse where Christ or God specifically says the 10 commandments are done away with, and I will drop it with prejudice. Otherwise, you are being reckless telling people this type of information without backing from God or Christ.

So, please show me. No more humans or interpretation. Just show me verses from Christ or God Himself.

 

[tatteredsoul]

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

.

Paul said this. I want to see it from Christ, not a human interpretation or description. As I said before, the disciples had their own infighting and doctrine disagreements. I am not interested in what Paul said on this matter because it is out of his spiritual jurisdiction; he cannot create or remove laws, and he cannot judge the soul for law breakers.

I asked specifically for Christ''s words, or God''s word - not man, or interpretation of man.

GOD specifically said the 10 commandments, and so on. Only He (or the literal Word of God) can amend them in any way. But, they always make that clear.

What God would be nebulous about the laws it's people needs to follow - essentially damning them through ignorance? God is not a god of ignorance; if He wanted us to know the 10 commandments are done away with, He would explicitly say so as He has always done and ways will.

So. Where does Christ or God explicitly say the 10 commandments are done away with?

NOT Paul, Peter, John, David, Enoch, Moses, Levi, Joshua, Jeremiah, etc. - unless in their chapters there is something about the OP that begins with, "And the LORD God said..."

 

[tatteredsoul]

Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

The law demanded perfection So does Jesus, its just that Jesus shows us the way to that perfection is by mercy: changing the hardness of a man's heart into a heart of flesh by forcing a man to change his heart and seek forgiveness from God through forgiveness of others.

Bugkiller spoke well when he stated: "No. Moses did not give the Christian, especially the gentile Christian anything."

This still does not explicitly say that Christ said the 10 commandments are done away with. Nowhere.

This shouldn't be a goose chasee to find the substance of the OP from Christ Himself. A child is supposed to be able to figure this out.

 

[2 know him]

What is unclear is whether or not you believe the pharisees believed Christ''s "work" on the Sabbath was SERVILE, and actually broke the law.

In other words, do you believe Christ broke the law of the Sabbath healing people. You have not made yourself clear on that at all.

But, let not get ahead of the topic: I want to see where in the bible Christ SPECIFICALLY says that God''s law is null, void or inert to be followed. You have NOT provided that yet: you have provided circumlocution in the context of a quote here or there From Christ, and interpretations from other people.

But, I have yet to see anything in the bible, apocryphal or otherwise that even insinuates Christ, or God said the 10 commandments are null, void or inert to be followed. So, that is what I am asking for - not a long post or lecture. just show me one verse where Christ or God specifically says the 10 commandments are done away with, and I will drop it with prejudice. Otherwise, you are being reckless telling people this type of information without backing from God or Christ.

So, please show me. No more humans or interpretation. Just show me verses from Christ or God Himself.

Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Let's start here: Jesus stated the law and the prophets were until John... The Law ENDED with John; Which part of that is unclear? Jesus is clearly stating that the law of Moses ceases with john: as since that time the kingdom of God is being preached; and when did that start? once Jesus came out of the wilderness he began to preach the gospel of the kingdom. But why did the law and the prophets end with John? BECAUSE JOHN BAPTIZED JESUS and that was his anointing ceremony: where he entered his office as King.

The Law and the prophets were until John. John was dead when Jesus made that statement. The law of Moses was not after John, it ended with John and the Kingdom began. You asked for a statement that clearly show the law of Moses ended by Jesus it is right there and add that to all the other evidence and what you are unwilling to admit still doesn't change. You see you have placed your beliefs in a false idea and you feel the need to defend your false beliefs, as you have promoted them for so long you are afraid that you have mislead others and you yourself have been mislead, and so instead of acknowledging the evidence that is clear: you refuse to take the vail from off your eyes.

2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

 

[BABerean2]

So. Where does Christ or God explicitly say the 10 commandments are done away with?

Your frame of reference is all wrong.

Christ clearly said that He came to fulfill the law.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (This is confirmed by the word "till" in Galatians 3:19)

The Sinai covenant was made at Sinai with the Children of Israel.

Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

The ten commandments are the Sinai covenant.

Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

The Sinai covenant was not made before Sinai.


Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

The children of Israel broke the Sinai covenant.

Christ is the only one who kept the Sinai covenant.

If a building contractor fulfills a contract to build a house, the contract is fulfilled, not destroyed.

Christ is the only one who could fulfill the Sinai covenant.

Once a contract to build a house is completed, that contract becomes "obsolete" Hebrews 8:13.

Joh_13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

We are under a new covenant and thus a new contract.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


Let go of the Old covenant. You cannot keep it. If you could, Christ's death at Calvary would not have been necessary.

We are under the Law of Christ.

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[tatteredsoul]

Fulfilling the law doesn't mean destruction or nullification of the Law. It means Christ did what we couldnt, and fulfilled every single thing God asked of Him, and the prophets foretold.

Christ said not one piece or iota of the law will be gone until heaven and earth are destroyed. This conflicts with the suggestions that He ended the Law.

There is still no direct reference that can match the OP from Christ. Where does He say, "The 10 commandments are done away with; don't have tk follow them anymore." Even the disciples followed the Law after His death.


It shouldn't take paragraphs of circumlocution from other people to validly show Christ said what the OP is saying.

As I said, if you find it in other sources I am all ears, but so far I have seen nothing suggesting Christ contradicts Gods word. He didn't violate the Sabbath or Justice Laws, and so I have no reason to believe He would suggest the 10 commandments are done away with.

That, so far, sounds like doctrine of men.

 

[disciple1]

For those who are misconceived stating we Christians are under Torah I would like to inform you that Only Israel was given Torah(the Mosaic covenant) Gentiles were never required to observe Torah. Jesus never required Gentiles to observe Torah. Since God the Father and God the Son has never required Gentiles to observe Torah just where do you get the authority to tell us we are all the terrible things you have come up with for not believing your brand of Christianity?

All laws dealing with morality are forever. Yes, Jesus named some as did all the writers of the New Testament. The idea that because Paul mentioned Honor our parents and Jesus mentioned some do not, in any way, mean we are under the ritual laws of the old covenant. Sabbath was a ritual law, Morality lass deal with God, ourselves and our fellow man. Jesus never mentioned that Gentiles had to observe Torah.

I don't believe any law will make anything perfect, old or new, love is the only thing that will make anyone perfect.
Hebrews chapter 7

11. If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come--one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?

12. For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.


18. The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless

19. (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

 

[BABerean2]

Christ said not one piece or iota of the law will be gone until heaven and earth are destroyed. This conflicts with the suggestions that He ended the Law.

No. That is not what the text says.

Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.



Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. (ESV)

He said heaven and earth would not be destroyed, before it was fulfilled.
This is the only choice based on Galatians 3:19 and Hebrews 8:13.

I have an old crank telephone hanging on the wall, that still works, but I prefer to use my cell phone because the other phone has become "obsolete".

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[BobRyan]

You still haven't shown where Christ said that God's law is null void or inert.

And, you aren't supposed to do SERVILE work.


Do you think Christ violated the Sabbath with His actions (and therefore, He violated the Law)? Were the pharisees right about Him?

Good point!

 

[BobRyan]

Here you clearly state: "Now lets quote Jesus. the Pre-cross OT teaching of Jesus." The Pre-cross teachings of Jesus are the New Covenant Teachings. Why do you infer to the cross as being the point of OT/NT separation? The cross is not where the NT started: it started with the baptism of Jesus.

The NT was written long after Christ was born, and died and went to heaven. As we all know by now.

The Nt writers never argued that God's Ten Commandments were abolished by the birth or baptism of Christ - as we all know by now.

Even your own pro-sunday scholars admit that the Ten Commandments still apply to all Christians.

This is a Bible detail - that almost everyone can see for themselves.

 

[BobRyan]

Right.

But where does He ever say that any of the Laws of God are null, void of done away with.

Christ is the only One with authority to change or amend law, but He doesnt. He reiterates the entire Law in two commandments, but that in no way nullifies God''s word or law.

Where does Christ, or God say any of God''s law is null and void? That is what the OP is suggesting, which is a bold statement indeed.

Great questions.

 

[bloodygrace]

Grace in and of itself nullifies the law of commanments, lol. We're under the law of the Spirit where he writes God's love in the fleshy tables of the heart. The bible does say the law is spiritual Rom. 7:14. The 10c's are not spiritual.

 

[BobRyan]

Sola scriptura.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

==================================== then we read this ---


Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

Ten Commandments spoken by Christ at Sinai - Ex 20. Heb 8:6-10

Ten Commandments quoted in NT when giving examples of the LAW.

Romans 7:7
7 What shall we say then? Is THE Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through THE Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless THE law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Ten Commandments -- "The Word of God" -- "The Commandment of God" - "Moses Said"

Matt 19
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’
‘You shall not commit adultery,’
‘You shall not steal,’
‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and,
‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”



James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by THE Law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of THE Law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

It based on "He who said" -

Rom 2
21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal?
22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?


"do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid!! IN fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31

Why is it so many cannot understand Jesus and all Israelites were under the law of Moses.

Romans 3:19-21 says the entire world is still -- after the cross -- under the Ten Commandments and condemned as lost sinners in need of the Gospel.

We all knew that already -

that Romans 3 19-20 perfectly makes sense if you know that einstien was wrong

Sounds like "creative" bible reading.

Genesis 2:1-3
Exodus 20:8,
Exodus 20:11 come to mind