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The 10 Commandments are done away!

Bob S

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I am not going to beg you to stay, but it is my intention to never call anyone a name other than what is revealed to me by the debater. When I mention the word law thumper it is meant to be a generic term not calling a person that name. I have been called many things on forums. People think, when backed into a corner and have no answers, they have to use insults. That is their problem. I use scripture to back up most of my statements. I will not run because someone is insulting.

I do not belong to any organized religion.


I do not claim to be a SDA.
That is good.


That is wonderful, first hurdle dodged. Actually nobody on this thread, so far, has said that Jesus was just a prophet or less than the son of the Creator.
If you read some of the posters comments Jesus is not enough. They are still trying to pull themselves up by their own boot straps.

While I said, "Before you call me a 'law thumper'", I did not say what law I believed we were under.
Where did I call you a law thumper?

I believe the bible is not a book of religion, but a book of law.
The Bible to me is much more than law. the inspirational stories, beautiful poetry, helpful thoughts, promises and most of all the scriptures we have of Jesus life, death and resurrection.

Interesting thought, I just do not agree. The 10 need the book of the law to be enforceable and explained. Both are God's words to the Israelites. The 10 were included in the book of the law. Jews do not separate them.


The laws given to Israel were the terms of the covenant at Sinai. When Israel failed to keep their part the whole covenant became null and void. that is why Paul wrote 2Cor 3 and Galatians 3.

It is not that simple. Jesus was referring to the law He was under, Torah.

I intentionally ignored the rest of your post until we have some...agreement that we will be civil and are open to each other's opinion and not interested in just hearing our own opinion.
Okay, your choice.

Where do youcome up with 95%? It is your call, stay and have your thoughts known by others or go and do other activities.

And, I'm open to the possibility of the super simple "Just Believe" philosophy. There are versus that must be overcome before that can be believed.
If you get your feeling hurt when someone disagrees with you I would suggest another avenue. I would like to see your thoughts. Your friend in Christ, bob
 
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bugkiller

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To late, you already revealed yourself. Its very interesting that you appear as a few regular posters aren't posting for some reason. I'll skip out on the rest of your post.

bugkiller
 
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Leroy D

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This editor leaves much to be desired.
Where did I call you a law thumper?
You didn't Bob, never said you did.

The Bible to me is much more than law. the inspirational stories, beautiful poetry, helpful thoughts, promises and most of all the scriptures we have of Jesus life, death and resurrection.
For brevity, I did not mention everything that was in the Word, of course there are beautiful things...and seemingly cruel things.

Interesting thought, I just do not agree. The 10 need the book of the law to be enforceable and explained. Both are God's words to the Israelites. The 10 were included in the book of the law. Jews do not separate them.
I am not from the tribe of Judah, are you? Doesn't seem to me like any other book was needed for enforcement or explanation. 1. Do them, live. 2. Don't do them, repent, live. 3. Don't do them, don't repent, die.
The Mosaic law contained laws about the land, specifically land sabbaths. Not in the 10, nothing to do with the 10. I could go on and on.

The laws given to Israel were the terms of the covenant at Sinai. When Israel failed to keep their part the whole covenant became null and void.
Null and void if the Creator calls it null and void.
If we can agree that a covenant is a contract, I'll use contract. What is required in a contract? 2 parties, a time limit, some duty/exchange on the part of both parties typically.
So, we have two parties to this contract. We have the Creator (1st party) and we have the Israelites (2nd party). The time limit was forever. The duty was 1. the 1st party would be their God. 2. The 2nd party would "do" the law. When the 2nd party did the law, they were blessed. Failure of party #2 enabled the penalty clauses, i.e. the curses.
In today's legal system, legally the "contract" was broken, and the 1st party had a right to end it and/or exact whatever penalty was included in the contract. If it wasn't ended by the 1st party, then it was a modified contract. We see in the OT several times, we see the Hebrews fail in their duty and bad things happen, then come back to the creator and ask forgiveness and they are restored.

It is not that simple. Jesus was referring to the law He was under, Torah.
Doesn't answer my questions? But, of course Jesus was under to 10Cs and the Mosaic Law (which included the 10Cs). Why is this relevant to my questions?
I know two people that converted (before I knew them) to Judaism over these "contradictions". The contradictions need to be removed/explained or God is a god of confusion and I know He is not.

Okay, your choice.
Doesn't create a contract, Bob. I agreed to listen to you, you have not truly agreed to my proposition.

Where do you come up with 95%?
95%....it's probably more like 99% of everything we've ever been told is a lie. It is just a guess Bob, but almost everything I've ever researched in depth has led me down a rabbit hole (no pun intended). I also realize that the Satan is the master of deception and the earth his playground.

If you get your feeling hurt when someone disagrees with you I would suggest another avenue. I would like to see your thoughts.
Oh, I'm not that thin skinned and I expect EVERYONE to disagree with me. Just don't know if I need the aggravation and the sniping (not accusing you of that, Bob).
This unfortunately is a place that is public with no private way to communicate so any yahoo can post anything they want and I have to see negative things when I/we need to be thinking on the pure, positive, things of good report, etc.
Too bad there isn't moderation on this forum that says if you don't have something positive or constructive to say....don't say anything, i.e. delete the post. To disagree is fine, to snipe is less than worthless.
 
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Sophrosyne

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Stupid you can not start a post and then cancel it....and can not delete a post.
It's that way on most forums these days, An easy way to deal with it is called a "dot" post where you delete everything and leave a period or dot there.
 
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Leroy D

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It's that way on most forums these days, An easy way to deal with it is called a "dot" post where you delete everything and leave a period or dot there.
Yes, I figured that out, but I was wanting to copy a post with the quote stuff in there and do it offline, and once you say reply...you can't quit, you have to submit it.
 
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Leroy D

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This unfortunately is a place that is public with no private way to communicate ...
Actually there is a way to communicate privately, but I don't understand how to do it yet, being new to this forum software. Is this something you would consider, Mr. Bob?
 
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Leroy D

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Actually there is a way to communicate privately, but I don't understand how to do it yet, being new to this forum software. Is this something you would consider, Mr. Bob?
I get an error when attempting that...more poorly written software I reckon.
 
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bugkiller

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Yes, I figured that out, but I was wanting to copy a post with the quote stuff in there and do it offline, and once you say reply...you can't quit, you have to submit it.
It doesn't become public until the submit button is engaged.

bugkiller
 
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Bob S

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Actually there is a way to communicate privately, but I don't understand how to do it yet, being new to this forum software. Is this something you would consider, Mr. Bob?
Yes, I am going away for the remainder of the week. I may have time to respond in the morning to your previous post. Bob
 
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Leroy D

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It doesn't become public until the submit button is engaged.

bugkiller
Yeah, well....It just sat there grayed out in my browser. Would not let me get rid of it and seemed like it was locking up the forum for me. Poorly written if you ask me, but you didn't.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Bob, when do you believe the new covenant was sealed?
 
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Bob S

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This editor leaves much to be desired.
You didn't Bob, never said you did.
I read it wrong, sorry.

For brevity, I did not mention everything that was in the Word, of course there are beautiful things...and seemingly cruel things.
That is better.

I am not from the tribe of Judah, are you?
I don't know from what tribe I came. Is it traceable? All I know is that my great grandparents were Jews and came from Eastern Europe in the 19th century.

Doesn't seem to me like any other book was needed for enforcement or explanation. 1. Do them, live. 2. Don't do them, repent, live. 3. Don't do them, don't repent, die.
It seems to me there are many statements in the book of the law that further explain how to abide by the 10.
The Mosaic law contained laws about the land, specifically land sabbaths. Not in the 10, nothing to do with the 10. I could go on and on.
And I could too, but probably what I would write wouldn't change your opinion.


Null and void if the Creator calls it null and void.
And He did just that.
If we can agree that a covenant is a contract
,
Yes,
I'll use contract.
and I choose to use covenant because that is a better term and found in scripture.


Are you here to just make argument with what i have written? Was I wrong in my statement? If I was wrong with what I wrote then tell me.


Doesn't answer my questions?
Sorry about that, I had to do some interpreting there and concluded that you are going to tell us that only the book of the law would remain until all was fulfilled. After reading all of your comment I was correct in my analysis? Problem Jesus didn't make that statement and Jews do not make a distinction between the 10 and the book. The book contained the 10.
IF (and I know, for that is a HUGE MONSTROUS if) there were at least two laws and one of them was forever and ever and not just for the Hebrews,
Oh, How about some scripture to back up your thoughts. I know you would like for scripture to explain it your way because of your preconceived Idea that we must observe the Sabbath because it was part of the 10 and is universal. Proof my friend proof.
Absolutely not. Jesus was referring to the law, all the law. All the written laws given by God to the children of Israel and only to the children of Israel. Deut 5

But, of course Jesus was under to 10Cs and the Mosaic Law (which included the 10Cs). Why is this relevant to my questions?
Because He came to free us from all the laws He was held captive under. Torah included the 10. The most important laws ever given in the old covenant were the laws found in the book of the law, love God and love your neighbor. Before Jesus annulled the old love command from the book He gave us a new command
John 13:34
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.


I know two people that converted (before I knew them) to Judaism over these "contradictions". The contradictions need to be removed/explained or God is a god of confusion and I know He is not.
Why would you want to enter your theory into the debate when you cannot prove what you write? That could become confusing.


Doesn't create a contract, Bob. I agreed to listen to you, you have not truly agreed to my proposition.
Then feel free to break your agreement.

95%....it's probably more like 99% of everything we've ever been told is a lie. It is just a guess Bob,
Seems like you are doing a lot of guessing Leroy. I like facts. Fact one, I am a former SDA. Fact two, SDA doctrines are full of miss truths making SDAism not even close to being the "remnant".

but almost everything I've ever researched in depth has led me down a rabbit hole (no pun intended). I also realize that the Satan is the master of deception and the earth his playground.
Sorry about that. Would you like to elaborate?


Oh, I'm not that thin skinned and I expect EVERYONE to disagree with me. Just don't know if I need the aggravation and the sniping (not accusing you of that, Bob).
I have done some of that in this post. I will go back and re-write some of my response.


Actually, I like to debate on an open forum where lurkers can get answers. What may be positive to you may be negative to me. Churches tell the story slanted to favor their beliefs. It is good to present the other side before they get so brainwashed into someone's belief system that they refuse to see new light.
 
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Sundown

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I just read your post and your statement "if one doesn't understand that the 10 commandments are done away they can not understand what Christ came to do."

In my opinion your statement is a ignorant one and I am stating this respectfully, I am not on this site to call names, nor to disrespect anyone. I can refute your argument with one question .... why Christ came? Christ came to fulfill everything that was spoken of him and to die on the cross, not to abolish the law, but to fulfill. Fulfill what? It does not say ;fulfill the law, it say just fulfill and you can see him throughout his life fulfilling everything that was spoken of Him. I can elaborate more on this, but I will have to write a long page. I wrote a book titled "SEEK GOD!" In this book I have a small section on the Law, hope one day you pick it up and read that section.

I am Sephardic Jew, I believe that though we keep the Law of God, they are now stored in my mind and engraved in my heart and it I sin against God he will bring them to my remembrance convicted me through the law, bringing me to repentance so God can give me of my sin and cleanse me from all my unrighteousness with the blood of Yeshua. Now, the law does not justify a man, it just allows man to walk rightly and blameless, nothing to do with us being made God's righteousness through the law, we are made his righteousness in Yeshua.

As for stoning the woman, I can also explain that, but at this time I do not want to write a page on this forum.

Respectfully,
 
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Bob S

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I respectfully submit that you either do not believe the writings of Paul and John or you have not studied them. Where you belong does not impress me one iota. You are following the works of another and not New Testament scripture.
 
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Sundown

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I respectfully submit that you either do not believe the writings of Paul and John or you have not studied them. Where you belong does not impress me one iota. You are following the works of another and not New Testament scripture.
I respectfully submit that you either do not believe the writings of Paul and John or you have not studied them. Where you belong does not impress me one iota. You are following the works of another and not New Testament scripture.

Bob, I never deny the writings of Paul or John, where do you see that I deny their writings? What I am conveying is that verses are taken out of contents and given another meaning. What do you think Galatians 3:10 means, cross reference with Deuteronomy 11:26-28 before answering me.
 
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