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You apparently don't know the history of Pentecostalism if you think Kenneth Copeland is a pioneer...methinks his daddy was still in diapers around that time...
I'm saying that if i said i possessed the gift of tongues or healing or whatever, then that is not God moving freely as He wills in us...It is more like us summoning him which is tantamount to i'll say this quietly cuz some of my best friends are charismatics, sorcery.
lol! he was not pushing them AWAY from the gifts, he said seek the gifts! Dude!And stop prooftexting already...
this is not about apostles! Show me how!It says..BODY>>
Yes preaching and teaching are a far more effective means to communicate worship and evangelise, was his point i'd say.Pauls basic message (talking to a bunch of people who were fanatical about 'spiritual gifts'..and using them unbiblically) Remember he's trying not to offend anyone too much:
"hey dudes...uhm...spiritual gifts, yeah! theyre great arn't they. Ya you should look for them and all that but ...listen.....I'd rather that you TEACH people the Gospel....and speak simply to one another...and really concentrate on LOVE, FAITH, HOPE and CHARITY. Ok fellas? We're grown ups now"
I don't know about the banhammer...but, I have to wonder what nonbelievers think when they read a thread like this where Christian brethren are at each other's throats...it's no wonder so many are turned off by the idea of church.
We've had trolls on there before, masquerading as Christians to do nothing but badmouth us. The activity is very similar to that.
a wee bit of trolling.. It's common....
but your comment causes me to wonder if there was a time ever where
anyone was stoned (or hung etc) for operating in the gifts of the Spirit.
Because if you don't understand it (as we've seen demonstrated today)
I can see where someone may misunderstand it to be blasphemous.
kwim?
I think people are being thin skinned here...
Nonetheless, I'm a cessationist, yet i've experienced like yarddog a manifestation of the spirit in a manner of language...Once!
It was for his purpose and for His glory. It's not a gift that i posses it was an action of the HS. happened once, end of story.
I don't get this approach, if we are well studied and see errors in theology are we not called to address directly what is seen as false teaching?
Phil is solid to the core.
The manifestation of the Spirit is given to EVERY MAN to profit withal. EVERY MAN. Although I haven't finished reading this thread yet, I have noticed some references back to what transpired back on the day of Pentecost as recorded in Acts chapter 2. What I haven't seen yet (it might be there...like I said, I haven't read the entire thread yet) is the following:
Peter, who was full of the Holy Ghost himself, looked back to a prophecy of Joel to justify what was transpiring on the day of Pentecost. This justification included God's promise to "pour out my Spirit UPON ALL FLESH" and it also included God's promise that His servants and handmaidens "SHALL PROPHESY". Something for the individual (I think that it was Dr.Strangelove, but I could be wrong...I've only skimmed parts of this thread) who sought to assert that "God...hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son" (Hebrews 1:2) means that prophesy is no longer for today to hopefully ponder. Prophesying, ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE, is very much still applicable for "the last days". Back to I Corinthians:
Dividing TO EVERY MAN as he will. The Holy Spirit wills to give EVERY MAN (or woman) at least one of the spiritual gifts or "charismas" that are outlined here. That some on this thread think that their refusal of such Biblical truths is somehow going to stop the very Spirit of God from accomplishing that which He desires is almost comical. Actually, it's quite frightening and probably borderline blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.
I'm trying to keep myself out of this, but I can't help to recall, TO THE GLORY OF GOD, just what an *AHEM* "proud charismatic" I must be in the blinded eyes of some due to my own past. Not only have I not required ANY medical help for the last 22+ years because I've continually been a recipient of God's "gifts of healings",
but I've also, BY THE GRACE OR GIFTING OF GOD, cast out demons in Jesus Christ's name a multitude of times (which required "the discerning of spirits")
and even had at least one experience with "a word of knowledge". I'll quickly relate that experience and you'll hopefully understand why this issue literally "strikes home" with me. About 11 years ago or so, I was teaching a Bible study in Pennsylvania and was introduced to a young woman for the first time who attended the study. She had some problems. In fact, she was tormented. Although I discerned her torment to be demonic in nature, when I prayed for her to be delivered (commanded the spirit to come out of her in Jesus' name), the spirit manifested, but would not come out. At this time, the Holy Ghost kept saying (almost shouting) to me, "Abortion...abortion...abortion..." Since I was meeting this young woman for the first time and had absolutely no clue as to her past, I felt a little awkward (to say the least) in asking her if she had had an abortion. Well, lo and behold, she had. As soon as she confessed it as a sin and asked God for forgiveness, she was gloriously delivered from the spirit that had been tormenting her. Why does this experience "strike home" with me? Well, this same young woman and I will be celebrating our 10 year wedding anniversary next February. On top of this, my wife had also been diagnosed with cancer. One day, a friend of ours and I prayed for my wife IN JESUS CHRIST'S NAME and a tumor came out of her, how shall we say, "lower regions". She no longer has cancer. Don't tell me that the gifts aren't for today. My wife (and a whole bunch of other people who I personally know, including myself) are LIVING PROOF of it. Back to I Corinthians:
Paul likens Christians to the members of a body. As each member of a body has its proper function, so too ought EVERY CHRISTIAN have its proper function in the body of Christ. GOD is the One Who "sets the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him", but WE are the ones who ought to be "coveting earnestly the best gifts" so that we can fully carry out our callings or fully function in the body in the way that God has intended us to function. WHO set "miracles", "the gifts of healings", "diversities of tongues" and "interpretation of tongues" IN THE CHURCH? GOD DID. Those who oppose such things are in DIRECT OPPOSITION TO GOD.
I wouldn't want to be in any of your shoes, come Judgment Day. Furthermore, rather than "boast" of how you have no "GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT", you ought to be hanging your heads in shame and questioning as to whether or not you're really even part of the body of Christ. Sound too extreme of a suggestion?
http://www.christianforums.com/t7522943-2/#post56425760I will also mention that, in I Corinthians chapter 13, Paul mentions speaking "with the tongues of angels" alongside "the tongues of men". Just more evidence for the scoffers on this thread to willfully overlook or ignore.
no, showing idiots, does not mean that it is not for today. We all know there are abusers and fakes.
perhaps I missed it, but did u reply to the fact that tongues in the greek, is the same at pent, and those whom Paul met on the road, who prayed in the same tongues?
i hear ya, he either cessations, or he doesn't.
He is a good bro though..but he proved our point.
same mo..you're just proving what most know, there are fakes, and false apostles..WE KNOW THAT..
Paul dealt with false apostles in Corinth, who did miracles..
But how does that mean that the manifestations are over now?
Stop pointing out the extreme looney people, to try to prove a doctrine, that does not exist in scripture. There are bad drivers, but the rest still have a liscense!
Again..sorry to repeat, but lets see the verses to show the manifestations are over, not just verses about fakes! Really, God bless, but you and strangelove need a new mo already..paaaaleeease!
Thanks.Said with all due respect.
Child of Jesus, is teaching over? Is serving over? Seems like you press the gifts word too much, Paul uses it generally, unless you think serving is over. Note the prophecy word right in there.
Rom 12:4 For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. 6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; 7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching;
Obviosly.We've put away the 'childish' things because that which is perfect has come.
What "greater works than these" do "you" do?LOLZ! I've just noticed one member say that Jesus operated in the giftings??!
ROFL.
Jesus? He's God.
If you wanna walk "just" how God walked then lets see some healing of the blind. Some resurrection of the dead.
AS Christ is in this world.Do you guys want to be Gods? Is that what this is all about?
I've been studying to be a minister through my denomination...there's a book I had to read called 2000 Years of Charismatic Christianity...there are folks mentioned in the book that the early church declared to be heretics...Montanists, for one...I don't know that they were ever stoned or anything like that though...
Then with the Pentecostal Movement in the early 1900s...it was never the intent of any of the "Pentecostal Pioneers" to start their own denominations...but the established churches that these folks were part of would not accept this new movement of the Spirit...yet sixty years later the mainstream denominations would accept it...with the birth of the Charismatic Movement in an Episcopal Church...although it wasn't a warm reception at the beginning...
Cessationists used to be the majority...but there are now somewhere in the neighborhood of 750 million Christians that consider themselves to be either Pentecostal or Charismatic...with the majority of these folks in mainstream Protestant churches and the RCC...others wouldn't classify themselves as Cessationist, as they're open to the Spiritual Gifts, but have never experienced them...so I think it's safe to say that cessationism is a minority view within Christianity now.
Hmmm...
Act 2:17 "'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;
I know that, it says tongues plural..languages..
Do you agree with paul that we are in Abraham?
They had the Spirit, with miracles..
Gal 3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith
It happened because of the promise of the Spirit.
14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Ok, so how do you seperate the manifestations of the Spirit, from the children of Abe, as per the Galatians?
It says in 3:29, we are his offspring. That is still true today. Yes?
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