SustainableBlueberry

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"Since your majesty and your lordships desire a simple reply, I will answer without horns and without teeth. Unless I am convinced by scripture and plain reason--I do not accept the authority of [mere men] for they have contradicted each other--my conscience is captive to the word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. Here I stand, I cannot do otherwise, so help me God. Amen." - Dr. Luther

-CryptoLutheran
Just read this: Coming late to the discussion... I get all the Bible references but I do think it key to understand the context and how early Christians interpreted those scriptures. Humility is important when we approach interpreting the Bible.

I appreciate all your references esp to Luther (Kans gut ja!) I taught church history (pre 11th century) in college a few decades ago so was puzzled when I was beginning to learn more about Adventism last year and was referred to Ellen White’s writings on the Sabbath: But the fourth (the Sabbath commandment,) shone above them all; for the Sabbath was ... The holy Sabbath looked glorious—a halo of glory was all around it. (Testimonies of the Church Vol 1). EGW set the standard of Saturday Sabbath keeping as an outward demonstration of obedience and compliance to the 4th Commandment. Then the greater SDA movement rallied around this and found revisionist history to support their view and lots of proof texting from the Bible to make be clever and make their point, almost always out of context, and not following sound hermeneutics.

In the references to Roman Catholic dogma and Constantine enforcing Sunday Worship. SDA scholars know full well that there were 5 bishops in the 2-4th centuries not just one “pope”. 1:5 became the Roman Catholic Pope (but why are these other 4 bishops never mentioned in any of the SDA writings on historical aspects of the Sabbath?). The other 4 never followed or cow towed to the pope yet from ~ 50 AD we know these other non-RC Christians met on Sundays as the “Lords Day” for group worship. I was shocked to learn about Andrew’s University Church historians ignoring the Eastern Orthodox Church in their early church history classes by strategic omission and then privately admitting that it would raise too many questions with the general SDA population. That my friend is not ethical or humble for any teacher at a "Christian" college-regardless of the brand.
 
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pasifika

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Is it your claim that before we can admit that "do not take God's name in vain" is included in the 10 commandments and applies to all mankind - we must first be sinless??
Hello Bob, that a good question here you made..."we must first be sinless"...what do you think about keeping a commands means?
 
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SustainableBlueberry

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I love my pastor, but if he ever taught me anything different than what God has written with His own finger, the only scripture in the entire Bible written by God (10 Commandments) than I would find a new pastor. Thankfully, my pastor is a firm believer in God's Holy commandments. He also runs AmazingFacts.com ministries and the main author of SabbathTruth.com. You might be interested in checking out some of these websites. God Bless.

I did check them out and also I reviewed the Sabbath debate with your pastor Doug Bachelor

Pt 1 From Seventh-day Adventism to Catholicism : Review of Sabbath Debate with Doug Batchelor and Steve Gregg


Pt 2 From Seventh-day Adventism to Catholicism : SABBATH DEBATE Between Doug Batchelor and Steve Gregg: My Review Part II

In part 2 of the debate The blog author points out that CONTEXT is so important. IMHO we as North Americans have a myopic view of church history and practice—I know as I have taught Church History (in college) to many Christians from different backgrounds. It is not their fault, they are just unaware of the past and think it all began after the Reformation or in SDAs case after 1840s and those who went before were just “unenlightened” They have not read the primary sources. I've also heard some who claim the Bible is the only source ...OK agreed but historical context matters. Knowing that EGW had a vision about a Halo being on the 4th command is a key piece of information providing context to how SDAs view the Sabbath, v s the 2nd-4th century church.

Blog poster comment: “Before I continue reviewing the debate, I have a couple of things we need to clear up about the Sabbath. Adventists, as wonderful as they are, have created some false assumptions about a "day" of worship.

Having false assumptions on the "day" of worship in American is fairly easy because, in Protestant America, we think of only one day a week as church day—and that is Sunday. However, if you were to move to non-Protestant areas you would soon realize that for the Orthodox, Armenian, Coptic and Catholic Churches, their history is to worship corporately on a daily basis.

And because Protestants in the United States attend church usually only once a week, on Sundays, the Adventists have created a false history around the idea of there being a correct day of the week to go to church.

And because they believe there is a correct day of worship, they then take this false premise and go even further with believing there is a false day of worship—a day God does not want us to assemble together to worship Him. And further, Adventists doctrines record that in the last days, this correct day of worship will become an international test of Christian faith.

History and scripture can easily refute the idea that there is a wrong day of worship (Sunday) if we take the time to research it. In fact, the greatest evidence that Sunday is not a wrong day of worship is studying Christ's life. For in His lifetime, as an Israelite, He would have been required to have corporate worship in Jerusalem not on weekly Sabbaths (living in Nazareth and in Galilee, He could not have gone to weekly Sabbaths at the Temple. It was several days walk from Nazareth to the Temple.)

Like the rest of the men in Israel, they were required to attend corporate worship at the Temple on other Sabbaths than the weekly one—three annual Sabbaths. These did not always fall on the seventh-day of the week. Let us look at the time approximate time period of Christ's life that He would have been required to attend the annual sabbaths in Jerusalem and see what day of the week the annual Sabbaths fell on.”
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I did check them out and also I reviewed the Sabbath debate with your pastor Doug Bachelor

Pt 1 From Seventh-day Adventism to Catholicism : Review of Sabbath Debate with Doug Batchelor and Steve Gregg


Pt 2 From Seventh-day Adventism to Catholicism : SABBATH DEBATE Between Doug Batchelor and Steve Gregg: My Review Part II

In part 2 of the debate The blog author points out that CONTEXT is so important. IMHO we as North Americans have a myopic view of church history and practice—I know as I have taught Church History (in college) to many Christians from different backgrounds. It is not their fault, they are just unaware of the past and think it all began after the Reformation or in SDAs case after 1840s and those who went before were just “unenlightened” They have not read the primary sources. I've also heard some who claim the Bible is the only source ...OK agreed but historical context matters. Knowing that EGW had a vision about a Halo being on the 4th command is a key piece of information providing context to how SDAs view the Sabbath, v s the 2nd-4th century church.

Blog poster comment: “Before I continue reviewing the debate, I have a couple of things we need to clear up about the Sabbath. Adventists, as wonderful as they are, have created some false assumptions about a "day" of worship.

Having false assumptions on the "day" of worship in American is fairly easy because, in Protestant America, we think of only one day a week as church day—and that is Sunday. However, if you were to move to non-Protestant areas you would soon realize that for the Orthodox, Armenian, Coptic and Catholic Churches, their history is to worship corporately on a daily basis.

And because Protestants in the United States attend church usually only once a week, on Sundays, the Adventists have created a false history around the idea of there being a correct day of the week to go to church.

And because they believe there is a correct day of worship, they then take this false premise and go even further with believing there is a false day of worship—a day God does not want us to assemble together to worship Him. And further, Adventists doctrines record that in the last days, this correct day of worship will become an international test of Christian faith.

History and scripture can easily refute the idea that there is a wrong day of worship (Sunday) if we take the time to research it. In fact, the greatest evidence that Sunday is not a wrong day of worship is studying Christ's life. For in His lifetime, as an Israelite, He would have been required to have corporate worship in Jerusalem not on weekly Sabbaths (living in Nazareth and in Galilee, He could not have gone to weekly Sabbaths at the Temple. It was several days walk from Nazareth to the Temple.)

Like the rest of the men in Israel, they were required to attend corporate worship at the Temple on other Sabbaths than the weekly one—three annual Sabbaths. These did not always fall on the seventh-day of the week. Let us look at the time approximate time period of Christ's life that He would have been required to attend the annual sabbaths in Jerusalem and see what day of the week the annual Sabbaths fell on.”
I appreciate your opinion, but I see no scripture that backs that the seventh day Sabbath is a false premise day of worship when the Lord states it verbatim. I also prefer scripture over blogs.

And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord. Isaiah 66:23.

What would be more compelling instead of trying to discredit the day God tells us verbatim to keep holy, the only day God blessed and sanctified and is one of the commandments of God written by the finger of God Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13 is for one Sunday keeper to find one scripture in the entire bible that says Sunday is a day of worship, a holy day for God and for man, a day God blessed or sanctified. Never is any scripture produced to supports ones case, so instead they just attack the indisputable holy day of the Lord thy God. Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13, This would be a real concern if it were I, especially when Jesus warns us about obeying man-made traditions over commandments of God. Matthew 15:3-9 Sabbath-keeping is a commandment of God, there is no such commandment for Sunday keeping. I truly don't understand why this doesn't bother more people. God bless.
 
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SustainableBlueberry

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I appreciate your opinion, but I see no scripture that backs that the seventh day Sabbath is a false premise day of worship when the Lord states it verbatim.

And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord. Isaiah 66:23.

What would be more compelling instead of trying to discredit the day God tells us verbatim to keep holy, the only day God blessed and sanctified and is one of the commandments of God written by the finger of God Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13 is for one Sunday keeper to find one scripture in the entire bible that says Sunday is a day of worship, a holy day for God and for man, a day God blessed or sanctified. Never is any scripture produced to supports ones case, so instead they just attack the indisputable holy day of the Lord thy God. Exodus 20:10, Isiah 58:13, This would be a real concern if it were I, especially when Jesus warns us about obeying man-made traditions over commandments of God. Matthew 15:3-9 Sabbath-keeping is a commandment of God, there is no such commandment for Sunday keeping. I truly don't understand why this doesn't bother more people. God bless.


Note: I have coached college debate so found it interesting. In college debate we do have ethics and can not just violate rules of engagement willy nilly.

The debate gave Steve the opening 20 minute presentation. Pastor Doug gave the second 20-minute presentation, and each had a 10-minute rebuttal time. Significantly, the debate rules included the fact that the participants could not present new information or continue to build their arguments after their 20-minute statements. Rebuttal times were specifically ONLY for addressing what the other said.

Steve was consistent and careful. He used his rebuttal time ONLY to address Doug’s arguments, not to make new ones--he followed the rules. At one point, he even commented that while there were facts he wanted to present, he couldn’t do it because he couldn’t add to his own argument during his rebuttal time. Instead, he said, he might be able to say more during the Question and Answer time which followed the debate.

(Debate Ethics Violation) Pastor Doug, ignored the debate rules. He used his rebuttal time to continue to build new Sabbath arguments (which Steve never did—Steve followed the rules). In adding new arguments Doug used Power Point slides and Adventist art to emphasize his words. Doug used proof-texting (never an accepted hermaneutical device as it takes things out of context) and generalizations (a logical fallacy) to sweep people into his worldview without actually showing how he arrived at his conclusions.

Pastor Doug made two sweeping statements showing illegitimate use of Scripture. Steve countered Doug’s point that Romans 14 leaves the keeping of a day up to each individual worshiper, Doug said, “The word ‘Sabbath’ does not appear in the whole book of Romans.” Technically, that is true. In context of Romans Chapter 14 though Paul is clearly addressing the keeping of the seventh day when stating in Romans 14:5-6a, “One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord…”

For Doug to say that this passage does not include reference to Sabbath is disingenuous and ignores the clear context and misinterprets the text. This is an unethical use of proof texting out of context. In a real college debate Pastor Doug would have been “dropped” by the judge.

Another example: Doug makes a deceptive statement: “There in Genesis where God establishes the Sabbath day and He blesses the Sabbath day and He makes it holy.” As Doug (who is a smart guy) is well aware, the creation account never mentions Sabbath. Genesis 2:2–3 states, “By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.”

Steve countered that God ceased from His work on the seventh day and blessed and sanctified it, but he explained that God never established the seventh day as Sabbath (in Genesis) nor did He give anyone any commands for keeping that day in the Genesis account.

Doug inserted the word “Sabbath” into his commentary about the seventh day and even stated that God “established” the Sabbath in Genesis. Doug knows that the Bible does not state that in Genesis....but he said it anyway. God ceased from His work, and significantly, that seventh day in Genesis had no “evening and morning” boundary as did the six days of creation. In other words, God’s finished work did not have a beginning and an ending marked by an evening and a morning. His finished work did not stop being finished after the seventh day was over. God did not resume His work on the first day of the week.

As is so common with my Adventist friends, Pastor Doug chose to ignore the context (he knows what the context says but plows on to make Genesis say what it does not state...very sad.) As a former debate coach it pains me to watch this kind of performance as it sets a bad precedent for others. I guess rules don't matter.

In these instances Doug does not address the words of the text and what they actually mean. Instead, he plunges ahead, making statements in line with EGW’s “the-4th-command-halo-vision” worldview and quotes proof texts mostly out of context as so many have done before.

Very Sad Day for Adventism...You all deserve better.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Note: I have coached college debate so found it interesting. In college debate we do have ethics and can not just violate rules of engagement willy nilly.

The debate gave Steve the opening 20 minute presentation. Pastor Doug gave the second 20-minute presentation, and each had a 10-minute rebuttal time. Significantly, the debate rules included the fact that the participants could not present new information or continue to build their arguments after their 20-minute statements. Rebuttal times were specifically ONLY for addressing what the other said.

Steve was consistent and careful. He used his rebuttal time ONLY to address Doug’s arguments, not to make new ones--he followed the rules. At one point, he even commented that while there were facts he wanted to present, he couldn’t do it because he couldn’t add to his own argument during his rebuttal time. Instead, he said, he might be able to say more during the Question and Answer time which followed the debate.

(Debate Ethics Violation) Pastor Doug, ignored the debate rules. He used his rebuttal time to continue to build new Sabbath arguments (which Steve never did—Steve followed the rules). In adding new arguments Doug used Power Point slides and Adventist art to emphasize his words. Doug used proof-texting (never an accepted hermaneutical device as it takes things out of context) and generalizations (a logical fallacy) to sweep people into his worldview without actually showing how he arrived at his conclusions.

Pastor Doug made two sweeping statements showing illegitimate use of Scripture. Steve countered Doug’s point that Romans 14 leaves the keeping of a day up to each individual worshiper, Doug said, “The word ‘Sabbath’ does not appear in the whole book of Romans.” Technically, that is true. In context of Romans Chapter 14 though Paul is clearly addressing the keeping of the seventh day when stating in Romans 14:5-6a, “One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord…”

For Doug to say that this passage does not include reference to Sabbath is disingenuous and ignores the clear context and misinterprets the text. This is an unethical use of proof texting out of context. In a real college debate Pastor Doug would have been “dropped” by the judge.

Another example: Doug makes a deceptive statement: “There in Genesis where God establishes the Sabbath day and He blesses the Sabbath day and He makes it holy.” As Doug (who is a smart guy) is well aware, the creation account never mentions Sabbath. Genesis 2:2–3 states, “By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.”

Steve countered that God ceased from His work on the seventh day and blessed and sanctified it, but he explained that God never established the seventh day as Sabbath (in Genesis) nor did He give anyone any commands for keeping that day in the Genesis account.

Doug inserted the word “Sabbath” into his commentary about the seventh day and even stated that God “established” the Sabbath in Genesis. Doug knows that the Bible does not state that in Genesis....but he said it anyway. God ceased from His work, and significantly, that seventh day in Genesis had no “evening and morning” boundary as did the six days of creation. In other words, God’s finished work did not have a beginning and an ending marked by an evening and a morning. His finished work did not stop being finished after the seventh day was over. God did not resume His work on the first day of the week.

As is so common with my Adventist friends, Pastor Doug chose to ignore the context (he knows what the context says but plows on to make Genesis say what it does not state...very sad.) As a former debate coach it pains me to watch this kind of performance as it sets a bad precedent for others. I guess rules don't matter.

In these instances Doug does not address the words of the text and what they actually mean. Instead, he plunges ahead, making statements in line with EGW’s “the-4th-command-halo-vision” worldview and quotes proof texts mostly out of context as so many have done before.

Very Sad Day for Adventism...You all deserve better.

I watched the debate a while back and hands down Pastor Doug won, but more importantly God's Word is what prevailed.

I see a lot of commentary and while it is well-written, it is filled with opinions and no scripture to back up any claims. Instead of discussing a debate, let's talk scripture because only God's Word matters.

You never addressed this:

What would be more compelling instead of trying to discredit the only day God tells us verbatim to keep holy, the only day God blessed and sanctified and is one of the commandments of God written by the finger of God Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13 is for one Sunday keeper to find one scripture in the entire bible that says Sunday is a day of worship, a holy day for God and for man, a day God blessed or sanctified. Never is any scripture produced to supports one's case, so instead they just attack the indisputable holy day of the Lord thy God, the seventh day Sabbath. Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13, This would be a real concern if it were I, especially when Jesus warns us about obeying man-made traditions over commandments of God. Matthew 15:3-9 Sabbath-keeping is a commandment of God, there is no such commandment for Sunday keeping. I truly don't understand why this doesn't bother more people.
 
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klutedavid

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You seem to be writing God’s laws out of the New Covenant when God wrote them in our minds and hearts. Hebrews 8:10, Jeremiah 31:33. Are you claiming that all of the laws God wrote in are everything except the Ten Commandments, the law that God personally wrote with His own finger, placed in the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy where God dwells and is also revealed in Heaven. Revelation 22:19

The Ten Commandments are repeated in the New Covenant and is part of every day Christian living. James tells us you break one of these commandments it is like breaking them all. James 2:10-12

The Ten Commandments repeated in the New Covenant:

1. "You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Matthew 4:10).
2. "Little children, keep yourselves from idols" (1 John 5:21). "Since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising" (Acts 17:29).
3. "That the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed" (1 Timothy 6:1).
4. "He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: 'And God rested on the seventh day from all His works.' There remains therefore a rest ["keeping of a sabbath," margin] for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His" (Hebrews 4:4, 9, 10).
And on the Sabbath day, they rested according to the commandment Luke 23:56
5. "Honor your father and your mother" (Matthew 19:19).
6. "You shall not murder" (Romans 13:9).
7. "You shall not commit adultery" (Matthew 19:18).
8. "You shall not steal" (Romans 13:9).
9. "You shall not bear false witness" (Romans 13:9).
10. "You shall not covet" (Romans 7:7).
How about actually quoting the first commandment from Exodus in it's full form. Not some abbreviation.
 
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klutedavid

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I already saw the debate a while back and hands down Pastor Doug won, but more importantly God's Word is what prevailed.

I see a lot of commentary and while it is well-written, it is filled with opinions and no scripture to back up any claims. Instead of discussing a debate, let's talk scripture because only God's Word matters.

You never addressed this:

What would be more compelling instead of trying to discredit the day God tells us verbatim to keep holy, the only day God blessed and sanctified and is one of the commandments of God written by the finger of God Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13 is for one Sunday keeper to find one scripture in the entire bible that says Sunday is a day of worship, a holy day for God and for man, a day God blessed or sanctified. Never is any scripture produced to supports ones case, so instead they just attack the indisputable holy day of the Lord thy God. Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13, This would be a real concern if it were I, especially when Jesus warns us about obeying man-made traditions over commandments of God. Matthew 15:3-9 Sabbath-keeping is a commandment of God, there is no such commandment for Sunday keeping. I truly don't understand why this doesn't bother more people.
Something happened to the law in the New Testament and you seem reluctant to address this issue fully. How can you go from the law of Moses containing over six hundred laws. Down to the law of Moses which has only ten laws.

Surely, Jesus could somehow fulfill 603 laws but failed to fulfill the remaining 10 laws. I am baffled as to how you can maintain a miniscule part of the law. Yet declare 603 laws in the law of Moses are obsolete. Your theology is obviously flawed.

You cannot claim that Jesus fulfilled the law and exclude part of the law. It is simply all or nothing.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Something happened to the law in the New Testament and you seem reluctant to address this issue fully. How can you go from the law of Moses containing over six hundred laws. Down to the law of Moses which has only ten laws.

Surely, Jesus could somehow fulfill 603 laws but failed to fulfill the remaining 10 laws. I am baffled as to how you can maintain a miniscule part of the law. Yet declare 603 laws in the law of Moses are obsolete. Your theology is obviously flawed.

You cannot claim that Jesus fulfilled the law and exclude part of the law. It is simply all or nothing.
Maybe you can read this from scripture very carefully....

Exodus 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

How many commandments did God personally write?

It's still a sin to break any of the commandments of God. 1 John 3:4 and the commandments point out sin Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7. You break one commandment you break them all quoting directly from the Ten commandments James 2:10-12 Jesus said you break the least of the commandments and teach others has some warnings. Matthew 5:19. This teaching that you can sin freely is not coming from Christ. Christ said go sin no more. Sin comes from the other spirit, not Christ. 1 John 3:8
 
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klutedavid

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Maybe you can read this from scripture very carefully....

Exodus 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

How many commandments did God personally write?

It's still a sin to break any of the commandments of God. 1 John 3:4 and the commandments point out sin Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7. You break one commandment you break them all quoting directly from the Ten commandments James 2:10-12 Jesus said you break the least of the commandments and teach others has some warnings. Matthew 5:19. This teaching that you can sin freely is not coming from Christ. Christ said go sin no more. Sin comes from the other spirit, not Christ. 1 John 3:8
Sin is transgression of the law, Sabbath Blessing.

No one would ever state that you can afflict an orphan, and not be guilty of lawlessness.

Sin remains the transgression of the law and that is the whole law.

Back to the drawing board, I am confident that you will work it out.
 
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SustainableBlueberry

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Please consider the context of Isa 66:22-23. It is so much more than a “proof text” proving we should be keeping the Sabbath today as we read the chapter and the surrounding verses. To single “Sabbath” out is a mechanical approach to this beautiful Hebrew poetry. I can feel my Hebrew teacher weeping.

Of course the verse contains the Sabbath word. I got that. I wonder, if you as an Adventist ever read this verse in context as saying "everyday" instead of only pointing to "The Sabbath" as a proof text? It mentions the new moons too. But if you look at the wording "from" "to" this wording in a sentence is indicative of all the days in between "from one to another". It is clearly not just the one word that you are focusing on.

Reading this in context we rest in Christ everyday as confessional Christians, not just on the Sabbath, or from one new moon to another or continually. Today we might say 24/7. This means the same thing as "from one to another". We rest in the finished redeeming work of Christ on the cross. Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen!
 
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BobRyan

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Hello Bob, that a good question here you made..."we must first be sinless"...what do you think about keeping a commands means?

"If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15 is not Christ saying
-- "first you must be sinless then you can love Me"
-- and it is also not "if you love Me ignore the Word of God"
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Please consider the context of Isa 66:22-23. It is so much more than a “proof text” proving we should be keeping the Sabbath today as we read the chapter and the surrounding verses. To single “Sabbath” out is a mechanical approach to this beautiful Hebrew poetry. I can feel my Hebrew teacher weeping.

Of course the verse contains the Sabbath word. I got that. I wonder, if you as an Adventist ever read this verse in context as saying "everyday" instead of only pointing to "The Sabbath" as a proof text? It mentions the new moons too. But if you look at the wording "from" "to" this wording in a sentence is indicative of all the days in between "from one to another". It is clearly not just the one word that you are focusing on.

Reading this in context we rest in Christ everyday as confessional Christians, not just on the Sabbath, or from one new moon to another or continually. Today we might say 24/7. This means the same thing as "from one to another". We rest in the finished redeeming work of Christ on the cross. Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen!
Thanks for the response back, but honestly all I see from your post is an opinion that has not been backed by scripture.

God is the authority of everything He created- do you agree?

The only definition we have on weekly Sabbath is that the seventh day is the Sabbath and it is God’s holy day.

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.
Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord

God from the very beginning God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it.
Genesis 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made

God commanded us to keep holy the same day that is holy to Him.
Exodus 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

All other days God deemed as working days, just like God worked six days from the very beginning because God is our example to follow.

Exodus 20:9 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,

God said the Sabbath would be a perpetual covenant Exodus 31:16 Which we see fulfilled for eternity as the Lord’s chosen day of worship Isaiah 66:23.

I’m going with the scripture on this and I think its important to follow the instructions of God, but we are allowed free will. God bless and take care.
 
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BobRyan

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Please consider the context of Isa 66:22-23. It is so much more than a “proof text” proving we should be keeping the Sabbath today as we read the chapter and the surrounding verses.

It is "proof" that instead of "at the cross the Sabbath commandment is deleted" we have instead "for all eternity after the cross in the new earth - all mankind is coming before God to worship - from Sabbath to Sabbath".

We can't simply insert the word "not" in front of everything that text says.

To single “Sabbath” out is a mechanical approach

Your argument appears to be "with the text". I am not "proposing" that the text should exist, much less writing it.

Of course the verse contains the Sabbath word. I got that.

I am glad we can agree on the easy part.

I wonder, if you as an Adventist ever read this verse in context as saying "everyday" instead of only pointing to "The Sabbath"

1. there is not one text in all of scripture where "from Sabbath to Sabbath" means "every day", almost all Bible scholars in all denominations will know this fact.

2. We have Samuels' mother bringing him a new coat "from year to year" which also did not mean "every day", almost all Bible scholars in all denominations will know this fact.

not just on the Sabbath, or from one new moon to another

you just shot your own argument in the foot. The text uses two specific cycles known to Isaiah and his readers - a weekly one and a monthly one -- instead of just a singular "daily" term -- as you seem to suggest.

your suggestion turns it into "from daily and from daily all mankind will come before Me to worship" -- which makes no sense to Isaiah's readers or even today.
 
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pasifika

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"If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15 is not Christ saying
-- "first you must be sinless then you can love Me"
-- and it is also not "if you love Me ignore the Word of God"
How about, "We love because He "first" loved us...

We cannot love God unless He enables us to love Him..So God has to work in us in order for us to love Him..first step
 
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Danthemailman

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How about, "We love because He "first" loved us...

We cannot love God unless He enables us to love Him..So God has to work in us in order for us to love Him..first step
Amen! Romans 5:5 - Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
 
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pasifika

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Amen! Romans 5:5 - Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Yes, it's all His to kick start our journey with Him, without the gift of the Holy spirit our canal mind and flesh will never turn and Love Him..
 
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BobRyan

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How about, "We love because He "first" loved us...

Another example of one of the many Bible texts not deleted by Christ.

1. Sabbath was "made for mankind not mankind made for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27 speaks to the "making of BOTH" - as we see in Gen 2:1-3. Ex 20:11 points directly to that Genesis fact.

2. In Gen 2 there is no "sin -vs- salvation" context for Sabbath and so no "animal sacrifice" origin for it. Which is unlike all the ceremonial Sabbaths.

3. Heb 7 and 10 give the reason for no animal-sacrifice Sabbaths beyond the cross.

4. Is 66:23 reminds us that for all eternity after the cross in the new Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship".

5. It is then no wonder that "every Sabbath" there is gospel preaching Acts 18:4 by NT saints and even gentiles ask for "more gospel preaching" to be given on "the NEXT Sabbath" so that everyone in the entire town can hear it - in Acts 13.

6. The 10 are a unit of Law in the moral law of God (that which defines what sin is - 1 John 3:4) having "'honor your father and mother' as the first COMMANDMENT with a promise" Eph 6:2 and still valid in NT. Where "to break one is to break them all" James 2



No text in the Bible says -
1. "Do not take God's name in vain" was deleted by Christ - as all Bible scholars agree.
2. "Honor your father and mother" Ep 6:2 was deleted by Christ - as all Bible scholars agree.
3. "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 was deleted by Christ - as all Bible scholars agree.

rather as Paul states in Rom 3:31 "what then? do we make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid!! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God by our faith"

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

No wonder then that we have --
"If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15 is not Christ saying
-- "first you must be sinless then you can love Me"
-- and it is also not "if you love Me ignore the Word of God"
 
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ViaCrucis

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Just read this: Coming late to the discussion... I get all the Bible references but I do think it key to understand the context and how early Christians interpreted those scriptures. Humility is important when we approach interpreting the Bible.

I appreciate all your references esp to Luther (Kans gut ja!) I taught church history (pre 11th century) in college a few decades ago so was puzzled when I was beginning to learn more about Adventism last year and was referred to Ellen White’s writings on the Sabbath: But the fourth (the Sabbath commandment,) shone above them all; for the Sabbath was ... The holy Sabbath looked glorious—a halo of glory was all around it. (Testimonies of the Church Vol 1). EGW set the standard of Saturday Sabbath keeping as an outward demonstration of obedience and compliance to the 4th Commandment. Then the greater SDA movement rallied around this and found revisionist history to support their view and lots of proof texting from the Bible to make be clever and make their point, almost always out of context, and not following sound hermeneutics.

In the references to Roman Catholic dogma and Constantine enforcing Sunday Worship. SDA scholars know full well that there were 5 bishops in the 2-4th centuries not just one “pope”. 1:5 became the Roman Catholic Pope (but why are these other 4 bishops never mentioned in any of the SDA writings on historical aspects of the Sabbath?). The other 4 never followed or cow towed to the pope yet from ~ 50 AD we know these other non-RC Christians met on Sundays as the “Lords Day” for group worship. I was shocked to learn about Andrew’s University Church historians ignoring the Eastern Orthodox Church in their early church history classes by strategic omission and then privately admitting that it would raise too many questions with the general SDA population. That my friend is not ethical or humble for any teacher at a "Christian" college-regardless of the brand.

My experience is that Adventist polemicists, by necessity, have to ignore the entire existence of the Eastern Churches and 4/5 of the ancient Pentarchy.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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pasifika

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Another example of one of the many Bible texts not deleted by Christ.







No wonder then that we have --
Hello Bob, never said anything was deleted by Christ!
Faith uphold the Law...And the Law is Not based on Faith but works...

Faith comes from hearing the Gospel..not following the Law (works of the Law).

Seeking to be justified by the Law (letter) is removing the work of the Spirit in you.

Therefore, we cannot keep His commandments because He is not in US, and we cannot love Him because Sin rules our carnal mind and flesh as you quoted sometimes before..." The mind governed by the flesh, is hostile to God, it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so".. Romans 8

The old covenant law excluded the work of Spirit, just man (canal man/ flesh)..."we (people) will do everything that God said"..Exodus 19.
 
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