So when was the last time you sacrificed a goat?

[Gregory Thompson]

You did not post any scripture that says all the law is a shadow. Pick any of the scriptures you posted and lets see if your claims are true or not true? Which one do you want to start with?

Well, this is off topic now. I'd indulge you, but you make all of your threads about this.

Feel free to discuss animal sacrifice or if the sabbath was made figurative like the animal sacrifices.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Well, this is off topic now. I'd indulge you, but you make all of your threads about this. Feel free to discuss animal sacrifice or if the sabbath was made figurative like the animal sacrifices.

So you have no scripture that says all the law is a shadow. If you don't have scrpiture just be honest and say so and don't make claims that are not true.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

So you have no scripture that says all the law is a shadow. If you don't just be honest and say so and don't make claims that are not true.

I posted one, and you stated that it did not mean what it clearly stated, so any further discussion is a waste of time.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I posted one, and you stated that it did not mean what it clearly stated, so any further discussion is a waste of time.

You posted no scripture that says all of God's law is a shadow. I asked you to tell me which one so we could examine if your claims are true or not true and you declined. For example Colossians 2 is talking about the shadow laws of circumcision, baptism, the meat and drink offerings and new moons and the ceremonial sabbaths (plural) in the Feast days. That is not all of Gods' law. While Hebrews 10:1 in chapter context is talking about the old covenant Mosiac laws for remission of sins and sin offerings. That also is not all the law now is it?

 

[Mr. M]

Your mixing up the Mosiac Shadow laws for remission of sin (Hebrews 7 to Hebrews 10) with Gods' eternal laws that in the new covenant give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4).

Can the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20) keep you from sinning? Or does it lead you here:
Luke 1:79 To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death,
To guide our feet into the way of peace.
"Under the Law"="under the shadow of death".
Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says,
it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped,
and all the world may become guilty before God.
Galatians 3:22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith
in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

 

[Torah Keeper]

I don't do burnt offerings. If you are hungry for barbequed goat, by all means....

The most simple answer to your question is the Sabbath was already a holy day before Moses, and remains a holy day today.

Genesis 2 should be all the evidence you need. What Yahweh made holy, who are you to make it common?

Then of course there are all the verses about Sabbath-keepers decades after Yeshua was resurrected. Did the apostles miss the memo? Because they were still keeping Shabbat.

And don't forget all the history of Sabbath-keeping in Christianity. LoveGodsWord posted a few examples in another thread. Even St. Patrick was a Sabbath-keeper.

If you want to work 7 days a week, while I get a day off every 7 days, that's not a burden to me. I enjoy Shabbat.

 

[Petros2015]

A real goat or a shadow goat? I do the shadow goat thing all the time, don't you? A lot easier to clean up.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Does lamb count on Pascha?

 

[spiritfilledjm]

Hebrews 10

 

[BobRyan]

I'm still listening through the law books in the bible currently, and noticed that the animal offerings are a big part of the law.

Since the sacrifices are now figurative, through the way we live our lives in Christ, perhaps the sabbath has also been made figurative. .

1. Sabbath was "made for mankind not mankind made for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27 speaks to the "making of BOTH" - as we see in Gen 2:1-3. Ex 20:11 points directly to that Genesis fact.

2. In Gen 2 there is no "sin -vs- salvation" context for Sabbath and so no "animal sacrifice" origin for it. Which is unlike all the ceremonial Sabbaths.

3. Heb 7 and 10 give the reason for no animal-sacrifice Sabbaths beyond the cross.

4. Is 66:23 reminds us that for all eternity after the cross in the new Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship".

5. It is then no wonder that "every Sabbath" there is gospel preaching Acts 18:4 by NT saints and even gentiles ask for "more gospel preaching" to be given on "the NEXT Sabbath" so that everyone in the entire town can hear it - in Acts 13.

6. The 10 are a unit of Law in the moral law of God (that which defines what sin is - 1 John 3:4) having "'honor your father and mother' as the first COMMANDMENT with a promise" Eph 6:2 and still valid in NT. Where "to break one is to break them all" James 2

 

[BobRyan]

The whole law was a shadow, and the body casting that shadow is Christ.

No text in the Bible says -
1. "Do not take God's name in vain" was deleted by Christ - as all Bible scholars agree.
2. "Honor your father and mother" Ep 6:2 was deleted by Christ - as all Bible scholars agree.
3. "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 was deleted by Christ - as all Bible scholars agree.

rather as Paul states in Rom 3:31 "what then? do we make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid!! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God by our faith"

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

 

[BobRyan]

It's definitely there.
View attachment 313158

nope.

Col 2 does not say "Do not take God's name in vain is a shadow of things to come "

 

[GDL]

It's definitely there.
View attachment 313158

Honestly, this post with the screenshare google search is tragic IMO. We digress beyond "well, my pastor says" to "well, google says."

Please (appealing) open the Scriptures and post and explain actual Scripture. What should we care what google or biblehub says?

 

[Rene Loup]

I think the better question is, how many scapegoats do we still sacrifice?

While playing Civilization IV, I sometimes get this random event, usually while researching Bronze Working: Scientific research setback. Bronze Working is an early tech that can provide major competitive edges. What caused this scientific setback? Did a good mind get wasted because of petty differences and labels, hindering scientific progress?

I read about a school district removing To Kill a Mockingbird, by Harper Lee, from required reading because of racial slurs, and perceived use of the White Saviour trope.[1] Given the setting, it's completely believable for these to be major parts of the story.

Spoiler: Contains Spoilers for 'To Kill a Mockingbird'

The accused Tom Robinson was found guilty not because of any hard evidence, but because of his ethnic background. Labels and stigma were favoured over truth and evidence-based logic in this court case.

While Tom is a fictional character, how much progress has been lost because of real people suffering the same situation?

A major innovator of the vacuum cleaner was a janitor finding better ways of cleaning while suffering from asthma. While Alan Turing had his own vices (Rom. 3:23), he still made significant contributions. There's major discoveries made by pure fluke.[1][2][3] What progress has been lost due to scapegoating, especially because of our unwillingness to accept personal responsibility?

Unfortunately, this is still happening to people with Autism Spectrum Disorder, even after Temple Grandin's contributions. The good news is, the problem is being recognized and solutions are being offered.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7] There's countless other examples, because the human race is stubborn like that.

Arguments aside, it's EXTREMELY important to recognize that WE ALL HAVE VALUE (1 Cor. 13, Gen. 1:26-28, John 3:16, 2 Pet. 3:8-9). Don't simply say it, APPLY IT (1 Cor. 13, Gal. 5:19-26, Isa. 29:13, Luke 11:37-12:12, Matt. 7:12-23, 15:1-20)!!!

1. White Saviour - Last edited on 19 January 2022, at 13:34 (UTC) - "The term white savior is a sarcastic or critical description of a white person who is depicted as liberating, rescuing or uplifting non-white people; it is critical in the sense that it describes a pattern in which third world peoples are denied agency and are seen as passive recipients of white benevolence."

On February 23, 2022, at roughly 10:55 AM Eastern Time, I changed citation #1's date to make it less confusing, in case of Wiki-edits. My apologies, I am a fallible human being who is predisposed towards selfishness.

 

[topher694]

I'm still listening through the law books in the bible currently, and noticed that the animal offerings are a big part of the law.

Since the sacrifices are now figurative, through the way we live our lives in Christ, perhaps the sabbath has also been made figurative.

Another food for thought thread, feel free to discuss why/why not.

If we are talking symbolism. Goats can represent selfish ambition, so I try to sacrifice that every single day.

 

[pescador]

No text in the Bible says -
1. "Do not take God's name in vain" was deleted by Christ - as all Bible scholars agree.
2. "Honor your father and mother" Ep 6:2 was deleted by Christ - as all Bible scholars agree.
3. "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 was deleted by Christ - as all Bible scholars agree.

rather as Paul states in Rom 3:31 "what then? do we make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid!! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God by our faith"

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

I have no idea what you're writing about. All Bible scholars agree on -- nothing.

“You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold guiltless anyone who takes his name in vain." Exodus 20:7

" “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment accompanied by a promise, namely, “that it will go well with you and that you will live a long time on the earth." Ephesians 6:2-3

"You must love the Lord your God with your whole mind, your whole being, and all your strength." Deuteronomy 6:5

None of these have been deleted by Christ. It's ridiculous to claim otherwise. They are all in the Bible, as is universally agreed by Bible translators.

Romans 7:4, "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God."

Your theology is in direct opposition to the Bible.

 

[pescador]

BTW, the last time that I sacrificed a goat was in the early 1970s. We used to raise dairy goats and ate the wethers.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Honestly, this post with the screenshare google search is tragic IMO. We digress beyond "well, my pastor says" to "well, google says."

Please (appealing) open the Scriptures and post and explain actual Scripture. What should we care what google or biblehub says?

Because the image displays a scripture verse?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

If we are talking symbolism. Goats can represent selfish ambition, so I try to sacrifice that every single day.

That's a good one, thanks for that.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

You posted no scripture that says all of God's law is a shadow. I asked you to tell me which one so we could examine if your claims are true or not true and you declined. For example Colossians 2 is talking about the shadow laws of circumcision, baptism, the meat and drink offerings and new moons and the ceremonial sabbaths (plural) in the Feast days. That is not all of Gods' law. While Hebrews 10:1 in chapter context is talking about the old covenant Mosiac laws for remission of sins and sin offerings. That also is not all the law now is it?

We disagree regarding what the scripture says. I opt to not engage in a debate of rhetoric so that the cross is not emptied of its power.