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Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian [moved thread]

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by Icyspark, Oct 9, 2020.

  1. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    Exodus 20 is addressed to the children of Israel under the old covenant of law. Also see (Exodus 31:16; Deuteronomy 5:15). In the New Testament under the new covenant see (2 Corinthians 3:6-9 and Colossians 2:16-17; Hebrews 8:13)

    In regards to our spiritual rest in Christ, in Hebrews 4:9, we read - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (NASB) Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" here is used no where else in the Bible!

    W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary points out:

    Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.

    SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law.

    Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into divine “rest,” that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)

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  2. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Both the New and Old Covenant was made with Iseral. God never made a covenant directly with Gentiles so if you are in Christ there is no more Jew or Gentile you are part of the promise and grafted into God's Israel. Galatians 3:28-29 I would not want to write myself out of God's covenant becuase along with the promises comes the laws, now written in our hearts and mind. Hebrews 8:13, Jeremiah 31:33

    While your commentary correctly interpreted what sabbatismos means "a keeping of a Sabbath", (although it says the Sabbath, there is only one weekly Sabbath according to God Exodus 20:8-11) but your commentary goes on to say the opposite of what it means. Never a good idea to mix a bit of truth with untruth, we should learn this from Eden.

    Hebrews 4:9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
    Rest here is sabbatismos which literally means keeping of the Sabbath. So this verse says there remains a keeping of the Sabbath for the people of God.

    σαββατισμὸς (sabbatismos)
    Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
    Strong's 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

    Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
    To enter into the Spiritual rest you must also cease from your work (Exodus 20:8-11) just as God did from His (Genesis 2:1-3)

    To receive the spiritual rest in Christ you must keep the Sabbath commandment, this is the door to enter into the spiritual rest in Christ. We work six days and the seventh day Christ wants to give us spiritual rest by having communion with him for a full 24 hours not speaking our words but speaking the words of Christ, not doing our ways but the ways of Christ. In return when we keep the Sabbath God blesses Isaiah 58:13-14 and sanctifies us. Ezekiel 20:12
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2022
  3. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    The commentary was spot on and you missed the spiritual significance of the believers “sabbatismos” rest in Christ. You also continue to mix the old and new covenants.
     
  4. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So it means the opposite of what is clearly stated? I do not think so, God’s Sabbath was created before sin Genesis 2:1-3 and will continue for eternity Isaiah 66:23 for His saints who keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus Revelation 14:12. We are to worship Jesus in Spirit and Truth John 4:24-25 and Jesus warns us about worshipping in vain by obeying mans traditions over the commandments of God. Matthew 15:3-9. The Sabbath is a commandment of God written with God’s own finger. Exodus 20:8-11 You are free to believe what you want though and we will all find out soon enough when Jesus comes! Hopefully you will reconsider before He comes, because according to James you break one commandment, you break them all. James 2:10-12 Your disagreement is not really with me. God bless and take care.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2022
  5. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. *Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.*

    The word "sabbath" first appears in Exodus 16:23 - Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.

    We have already been over this many times before. Now see post #1087 from the link below. You remain one foot in the old covenant plantation of law.

    Is the Lord's Day Saturday according to Acts of John (Apocryphal)?
     
  6. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sin started in Heaven. Where there is no law there is no sin. Romans 4:15 God always had His law and His sheep hear His voice John 10:27 and follow Him, Jesus also kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16-22 as our example to follow according to scripture. 1 Peter 2:21

    God wrote His laws with His own finger, spoke it with His own voice. God’s law came in a covenant of Ten Exodus 34:28, Exodus 20 and was kept in the ark of the covenant of the Most Holy of God’s Temple where He dwells. The ark of the covenant is also revealed in Heaven Revelation 11:19 and God’s will for us is not different in heaven than it is on earth as shown throughout the entire Bible we should keep all of God’s commandments.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2022
  7. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    Have you flawlessly obeyed the 10 commandments from the old covenant of law? (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23) What do you believe it means to “keep” (Greek word “tereo”) God’s commandments? Do you believe that receiving eternal life is based on the merits of sufficiently obeying the 10 commandments?
     
  8. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The law of God is written in both the Old and New Testament and every one of the Ten commandments is repeated and is the standard (morally right-doing) for Christian living. Jesus quoted directly from the Ten commandments when He said murder begins in the heart. Jesus wants our heart changed (New Covenant) so not only should we not commit the act of murder, but we should also avoid those thoughts where the idea begins. Jesus is not teaching us we can commit murder or adultery or break any of the commandments of God. Matthew 5:17-19, Matthew 19:17, 1 John 5:3, 1 John 2:3-5, Matthew 7:21-23, John 15:10, John 14:15, Revelation 12:17, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14-15.


    I have answered this before, but I will answer again for you.

    No, we are not saved by keeping the ten commandments, because all has sinned and has fallen short of the Glory of God. We are saved by grace through our faith Ephesians 2:8-9. When you have faith in God do you obey Him or not obey Him? Seems weird to say you have faith, but not enough faith to believe what He asks. Faith is not separated from God's law; faith establishes God's law Romans 3:21. Grace is not a license to sin Romans 6:1-14. Those who are in Christ walk in newness with the Holy Spirit which is given to those who obey John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32. Those not in Christ cannot obey God's law according to Paul:

    Rom 8:4 .. the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are in accord with the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,

    God's law points out sin Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7. Sin is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4. You break one commandment you break them all James 2:10-12. We have a gracious Savior who is longing for us to obey Him and not sin, sin does not come from God 1 John 3:8 Jesus promises to forgive us of our sins when we are truly sorry and repent. True repentance means turning from sin and walking in obedience with Christ. What we don't want to find ourselves in the position of living in perpetual sin (breaking God's law) because according to scripture there remains no more sacrifice Hebrews 10:26-30. Right now, each of has time to repent and turn from sin, but the second coming will be like the days of Noah, most people choose not to believe or obey.

    God bless
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2022
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    God's Word is very specific in stating the literal time element... for this commandment made "for mankind" Mark 2:27

    11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. Ex 20:11

    God says "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD" Ex 20:10

    God says "tomorrow IS the Sabbath" Ex 16.

    And for 40 years - no manna fell on "the 7th day" - just in case someone missed the time element.

    Gen 2:1-4
    Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
    4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven.

    No wonder God's Word says that for all eternity after the cross - in the NEW EARTH "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

    All ten of the ten commandments are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the Jer 31:31-34 NEW Covenant -- where the Law includes that 10 known to Jeremiah and his readers (according to the rules of exegesis).

    Here then is an obvious Bible detail so clear that Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations admit to it.


    the commandment to love your neighbor and forgive others is illustrated by a number of parables - one of them is in Matt 18. Making up rules may seem like a great idea but they usually don't fit Bible facts on close review.

    Apparently not since Deut chisels nothing new on stone and insists in 4 and 5 that they continue to obey that which was spoken at Sinai and put IN Stone at Sinai - and there is no record of Moses calling for a weekly week-day-1 rest or calling for worship every week-day-1 or calling week-day-1 Sabbath. Yet we do see Moses standing with Christ "in glory" in Matt 17 - before the cross event happens.
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    Is it your claim that before we can admit that "do not take God's name in vain" is included in the 10 commandments and applies to all mankind - we must first be sinless??
     
  11. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    More long winded sugar coated double talk. No offense, but I have come to the conclusion that it is impossible to reason with SDA’s. Good night.
     
  12. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It’s hard to justify forgetting the one commandment God said to “Remember” and uses the word “holy” and “blessed”. We are told to obey God over man, so I will continue placing my faith in God and His commandments, because I know what He asks is good for me. Take care.
     
  13. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    I will continue placing my faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16) and not in imperfect obedience to the law. (Romans 3:23; 6:23; Galatians 2:16; Philippians 3:9) Take care.
     
  14. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Faith is not separate from obedience, the law establishes our faith Romans 3:31 and obedience is not separate from love to God. John 14:15, 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20:6, John 15:10. There are many laws in the scripture and not all laws are the same or play the same role, Paul sums it up by saying what matters is keeping the commandments of God. 1 Cor 7:19.
     
  15. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    You basically define faith “as” obeying the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on sabbath keeping) which equates to “salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works” no matter how much you try and sugar coat it. You also admitted that you have not flawlessly obeyed the 10 commandments so “imperfect obedience” according to you is what saves us?

    In regards to Romans 3:31, we establish or uphold the law by putting our faith in the One who fulfilled all the righteous requirements of the law on our behalf and who offers us His perfect righteousness as a gift. (Romans 4:5-6) Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. (Romans 10:4)
     
  16. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No, scripture says faith is not separated from obedience, which you keep teaching that it is. How do you have faith, but not enough faith to obey what God’s asks?

    You have a way of twisting things that was never stated. It’s late my time and I have already addressed your misconceptions of what I believe and what the Bible says many times previously so we will have to agree to disagree.
     
  17. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    I never said that someone with faith will never obey what God says, yet faith is faith and obedience which “follows” is works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) None of us are 100% obedient 100% of the time, so it’s not about flawless or lawless either.

    You and I have different beliefs about what it means to obey what God says for New Testament Christians, since you mix the old and new covenants together.

    You seem to believe that I have a way of twisting things that were never stated, yet I feel the same about you, which makes it impossible for us to reason together. We will just have to continue to agree to disagree.
     
  18. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You seem to be writing God’s laws out of the New Covenant when God wrote them in our minds and hearts. Hebrews 8:10, Jeremiah 31:33. Are you claiming that all of the laws God wrote in are everything except the Ten Commandments, the law that God personally wrote with His own finger, placed in the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy where God dwells and is also revealed in Heaven. Revelation 22:19

    The Ten Commandments are repeated in the New Covenant and is part of every day Christian living. James tells us you break one of these commandments it is like breaking them all. James 2:10-12

    The Ten Commandments repeated in the New Covenant:

    1. "You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Matthew 4:10).
    2. "Little children, keep yourselves from idols" (1 John 5:21). "Since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising" (Acts 17:29).
    3. "That the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed" (1 Timothy 6:1).
    4. "He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: 'And God rested on the seventh day from all His works.' There remains therefore a rest ["keeping of a sabbath," margin] for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His" (Hebrews 4:4, 9, 10).
    And on the Sabbath day, they rested according to the commandment Luke 23:56
    5. "Honor your father and your mother" (Matthew 19:19).
    6. "You shall not murder" (Romans 13:9).
    7. "You shall not commit adultery" (Matthew 19:18).
    8. "You shall not steal" (Romans 13:9).
    9. "You shall not bear false witness" (Romans 13:9).
    10. "You shall not covet" (Romans 7:7).
     
  19. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    References for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant. (Colossians 2:16-17)

    1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
    2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
    3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; 5:12
    4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
    5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
    6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
    7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
    8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
    9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
    10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

    Don’t confuse the believers Sabbatismos rest in Christ in Hebrews 4:9 with keeping the weekly Sabbath day under the law.
     
  20. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I see, it seems like your claim now is God writes all in laws in our hearts except the one commandment He asked us to "remember" the one commandment that uses the word "holy" and blessed" Scripture tells us once God blesses something man cannot reverse Numbers 23:20 so your teaching is not lining up with scripture.

    Lets take a look at Colossians 2:14-17 and see what it says.

    Colossians 2:14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

    The Ten Commandments is God-written (finger of God), the law of Moses is handwritten so right there you have your proof this is not talking about any of God's Ten Commandments.

    We can continue...
    Having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us

    This is most certainly not referring to any of the Ten Commandments.

    1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and His commandments are not grievous. So there appears to be a contradiction to Col 2:14 and the Ten Commandments. Since there are no contradictions in scripture, it must be referring to another law. The law of Moses was placed outside the ark of the covenant, written by Moses in a book as a witness against you, Deuteronomy 31:24 God's law is not grievous 1 John 5:3. The law of Moses was added because of sin Galatians 3:19, the law of God points out sin, Romans 7:7, Romans 3:20. The law of Moses contained curses Deuteronomy 29:20-21, Galatians 3:10 and made nothing perfect Hebrews 7:19. The law of God is perfect Psalms 19:7 and brings blessings and peace Proverbs 29:18, Psalms 119:165 the law of Moses in the book of ordinances ended with Jesus being our Perfect sacrifice. Ephesians 2:15, Col 2:14-16, Hebrews 8:13 not God's law which is ETERNAL and UNCHANGING Matthew 5:17-19

    So there is 100% proof Colossians 2:14-16 is not referring to the Ten Commandments it is referring to the law of ordinances, not the COMMANDMENTS of God. Is there a sabbath(s) in the law of ordinances? Yes, and fits Colossians 2:16 to a tee as is about food and drink and holy days called sabbath(s) in scripture which has nothing to do with the commandments of God that was before sin Genesis 2:1-3 and is a memorial to God's Creation "Remember" the Sabbath day to keep holy Exodus 20:8. The sabbath(s) feast days (animal and food offerings) is what ended, that is in the ordinances in the law of Moses, that was contrary to us and ended with Jesus our Sacrifice -See Hebrews 10 which is what Colossians 2:14-16 is referring to.

    One more proof Colossians 2:14-16 is not referring the seventh day Sabbath

    Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. The Sabbath is not a shadow of anything, it points back to Creation "Remember" the Sabbath day, remember means it was something that happened in the past which points back to Creation on the Sabbath day that God rested from all of His works, blessed the seventh day and sanctified it Genesis 2:1-3 so the weekly Sabbath points to Creation not Christ on the cross.

    Further proof, the Sabbath day continues to be God's chosen day of worship for eternity: Isaiah 66:23 just like God promised Exodus 31:1
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2022
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