Ten Commandments in the Garden of Eden

[fhansen]

I found this interesting article about the Ten Commandments in the Garden of Eden.


Many Christians, including myself a while ago, believe that God first made His Ten Commandments known on mount Sinai. However, in this blog post, we are going to show that God ‘covertly’ revealed the Ten Commandments in the beginning, in the Garden of Eden to Adam and Eve, our first parents. It is a Revelation by Grace!

But how was this discovery made? Ironically, we discovered it in the last book of the Bible, in the book of Revelations 3:14-22, the letter to the church of Laodicea.

In the letter to the church of Laodicea, Jesus Christ addresses the church of today, the last church period in church history, the church of Laodicea, and states that it is naked and needs to buy of Him white raiment to cover the shame of its nakedness.

So the question we have to ask is, how did the church of Laodicea become naked in the first place, and what is this white raiment Jesus Christ strongly recommended as the remedy to our state of nakedness?

After going through the Bible, we discover there’s a similar situation of nakedness and white raiments in the book of Genesis in the story of Adam and Eve. Meaning if we study what occurred in the Garden of Eden that caused Adam and Eve to become naked, we can understand why the church of Laodicea is naked today. But wait a minute? How were Adam and Eve clothed at their creation in the first place before they became naked? From Psalm 8:5 and Isaiah 61:10, we learn that at their creation, God clothed Adam and Eve with glory and honor in garments of light (white), which represented the righteousness of God. So basically, God clothed Adam and Eve just as He and the angels were, in garments of white or light.

So the next logical question is that what then is the Righteousness of God? From Psalm 119:172, Isaiah 51:6-7, 1 John 5:17 and 1 John 3:4, we learn that the Righteousness of God is His everlasting covenant, the Ten Commandments, which is His Holy law. Not the Mosaic law! There’s a difference between the two.

This means that in the Garden of Eden, God clothed Adam and Eve with His Holy Law, which was represented by the white garments, and when they sinned and disobeyed Him, they lost that robe of righteousness and became naked! By eating the fruit of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, which God commanded them not to eat, Adam and Eve sinned and broke the Ten Commandments in the Garden of Eden, therefore losing the garment of white, which is the righteousness of God.


Now that we are on the same page, we can now proceed to tackle the question, which of the Ten Commandments did Adam and Eve break? The answer is the full monty, all the ten at once!

“Thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,” cannot be found in the 10 Commandments, however, in the simple statement, “But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die,” God places all the principles of the 10 Commandments.

The purpose of this blog post is to show by eating of that fruit, Adam and Eve broke all the ten commandments.

The first point we have to consider is the Bible’s definition of sin found in 1 John 3:4 “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law,” meaning whenever we sin, we transgress an element of the Ten Commandments.

The second point to note is that the law of God is spiritual, according to Romans 7:14, where Paul states, “For we know that the Law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.” Why is the Law of God spiritual? We find the answer in Jesus’s conversation with the Samaritan woman in John 4:24, “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” Since the Creator of the universe and author of the 10 Commandments is Spirit, it is just natural that the document He authored is also in Spirit.

Usually, when we think of the 10 Commandments, we look at it literally as a list of 10 to do things. However, when we look at it from a spiritual point of view, we see that it’s more than ten and more profound than we can imagine. The number 10 in the Bible symbolizes ordinal perfection in the totality of God’s government. Psalm 119:96 states, “I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad.” It is limitless and encompasses every sin under the universe, and the angels are also subject to it just as we are. It is similar to the parables of the ten virgins (Matt 25:1-13), the ten lepers (Luke 17:11-19), the ten talents (Matt 25:14-30), and the ten minas (Luke 19:12-27). The number ten used in all these parables are prophetic and symbolic of the totality of the faithful.

Also, the law being Spirit should not be surprising because even laws written by humans is said to be in letter and Spirit. Constitutions of nations and governments are argued both in letter and spirit, so how much more the law that was written by God, who is Spirit? The Spirit of the law is the profound purpose, intention, and reasoning behind the letter of the law that we see. It is the part of the law that we do not see, but the more critical component of the law. Whenever we change the letter of the law it means that we have also changed the reason and original intent, which is the foundation upon which the law sits, which is the most critical aspect of the law. That is why the Lord warned us in Proverbs 22:28, “Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set.” An example between letter and spirit of the law at home when your parents tell their teenagers not to have premarital sex until they are responsible adults. The teenager may not be happy and understand because they want to experience it. However, the spirit behind the law is that the parent is protecting their adolescent child from getting teenage pregnancy, which could derail their education and future stability or contracting an STD, which could end their life.

Part 2 to follow…

I tend to think that until they made the first break with God, by denying His authority- His right to determine morality for them-with their act of disobedeince, they had no need for laws against specific sins. They sort of created relative morality, where every man would do what's right in his own eyes, acting as his own "god" now, so to speak, while before then it wouldn't even occur to them to sin in the ways that the commandments banned.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I tend to think that until they made the first break with God, by denying His authority- His right to determine morality for them-with their act of disobedeince, they had no need for laws against specific sins. They sort of created relative morality, where every man would do what's right in his own eyes, acting as his own "god" now, so to speak, while before then it wouldn't even occur to them to sin in the ways that the commandments banned.

I mean, that's what Paul says, the Law was given on account of the trespass.

Without sin, there's no reason to say, "Don't sin".

It would be like making a commandment saying, "Human beings shouldn't absorb oxygen through their gills", we don't have gills, we literally can't do that so why make a commandment prohibiting it?

The commandment only exists, and can only exist, because of sin.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[SabbathBlessings]

"This is what I mean: The Law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the Law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

Why then the Law? It was added because of transgressions, until the Offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Now and intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.

Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not. For if the Law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the Law. But the Scriptures imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe." - Galatians 3:17-22

Paul here is contrasting condemnation and justification- see Galatians 3:11. The argument is not whether the law operates or not, but whether as a justifier of guilty sinners. Paul clearly spells out the law is necessary as it reveals sin Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7 but not as a justifier from sin.

The Law was given after Abraham, that includes the Decalogue. It did not exist before Moses, it was not in the Garden. The Law and the covenant by the Law, is after Abraham. Paul looks to before the giving of the Law, to the promises of the Gospel made beforehand, to Abraham, which is Christ.

Scripture indicates this is not true.

Genesis 26: 5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws

Without law there is no transgression Romans 4:15 Sin is the transgression of the law 1 John 3:4 which is why it was a sin when Cain killed Abel. Which is why it was a sin when Adam and Eve placed the forbidden fruit above God which broke many of the commandments.

By saying that the Decalogue preceded Moses Paul's entire theology becomes nothing.

Only for those who try to make an argument against keeping God's law. Paul said God's commandments are holy and just and good. Romans 7:12 and it is what matters 1 Cor 7:19 so Paul does not teach against God's law.

The promise was made before the Law was given, the Law does not annul the promise, but the Law is not the promise.

The law is what reveals sin and without the law, there is no transgression, which is why there has always been God's law and God's law remains eternally. Revelation 11:19

Christ is the promise, the Gospel is before the Law, the Law exists on account of sin, but the Gospel is the everlasting promise of God. The Law reveals sin, but the Gospel gives life.

The law reveals sin so we know what not to do. Christ is of course the Promise, and no one said anything different. Christ said If you love Me, keep My commencements so not sure why so many people fight this. We are not saved by law-keeping we are saved by grace through faith. Faith shows one believes the teachings of Jesus and does what He asks of us because we trust that its for our own good. People with faith uphold the law Romans 3:31 Revelation 14:12 and keep through love. 1 John 5:3, John 14:15, Exodus 20:6

And which commandments did God personally speak beside the Decalogue? That's quite simple,

That wasn't the question I asked you- which ones did God personally speak and God personally write and are placed inside the ark of the covenant in God's Most Holy of His Temple where He dwells?

"You shall love your enemy as yourself" "If someone strikes you on the one cheek, turn and offer the other as well" "Love the Lord your God" "Love your neighbor as yourself" "A new commandment I give you, that you love each other even as I have loved you".

Yes, Jesus quoted lots of scripture from the OT this is one of them and we cannot show love to God or neighbor by breaking His commandments. 1 John 5:2-3

Each of those spoken by the very lips of the Incarnate Almighty God, Jesus Christ. He who is Greater than Moses for He is before Moses and above Moses in every way. Moses was His servant, through which came the Law to increase the trespass and declare everyone captive to sin, in order that through the promise of God in the Gospel Christ would come and redeem the world by His blood.

Did Moses write the Ten Commandments?

This is what Jesus said about Moses- which is a type of Christ in the scriptures and there are many parallels to Moses and Jesis in scripture that is very powerful for us today.

These are the very words of Jesus:

John 5: 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

And a warning in Hebrews.

Hebrews 10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

I hardly believe you will care what the Scriptures actually teach on this subject. But in order that none be taken captive by your sect's doctrines of demons, it is necessary to preach the truth of Christ and His Word.

-CryptoLutheran

Jesus will be our righteous Judge and we will all find out soon enough who is teaching Truth and who is not. All of God's commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151 and those who keep not His commandments there is no truth 1 John 2:3-5 My trust is in God.

Take care.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I tend to think that until they made the first break with God, by denying His authority- His right to determine morality for them-with their act of disobedeince, they had no need for laws against specific sins.

Without it being "law" it would not be sin, so therefore there had to be law. Romans 4:15, 1 John 3:4 We have a righteous God and without law there is no standard of judgement. Disobeying God breaks the very first commandment.

They sort of created relative morality, where every man would do what's right in his own eyes, acting as his own "god" now, so to speak, while before then it wouldn't even occur to them to sin in the ways that the commandments banned.

Without any measurement it would be meaningless, which is why the commandments shows us our sin 1 John 3:4 and Paul points right to the Ten to define sin Romans 7:7- God's version, not what was changed by man that God warned us in doing so. Deut 4:2

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I mean, that's what Paul says, the Law was given on account of the trespass.

Without sin, there's no reason to say, "Don't sin".

It would be like making a commandment saying, "Human beings shouldn't absorb oxygen through their gills", we don't have gills, we literally can't do that so why make a commandment prohibiting it?

The commandment only exists, and can only exist, because of sin.

-CryptoLutheran

But man can break the commandments and they did so you are comparing apples to oranges. There are many laws in the books in our government, just because we are not breaking them, doesn't mean they cease to exist, or we won't be held accountable if we do break.

 

[fhansen]

With it being "law" it would not be sin, so therefore there had to be law. Romans 4:15, 1 John 3:4 We have a righteous God and without law there is no standard of judgement. Disobeying God breaks the very first commandment.

Yes, the law would be written in their hearts already, but in their innoence this means that they'd have no need to even be aware of it. They weren't designed to covet, to commit adultery, or incest, etc, to lie, to steal, to kill. It would require a break from God, as their God, in order for them to begin to question, and determine, right and wrong for themselves. The serpent introduced the first and most basic question. "Did God really say that...?"

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes, the law would be written in their hearts already, but in their innoence this means that they'd have no need to even be aware of it. They weren't designed to covet, to commit adultery, or incest, etc, to lie, to steal, to kill. It would require a break from God, as their God, in order for them to begin to question, and determine, right and wrong for themselves. The serpent introduced the first and most basic question. "Did God really say that...?"

Of course, they were aware of the law are you suggesting God would judge on something one knows nothing about? That does not seem like a fair judge, all of God’s judgements are righteous. Romans 2:1-11 Lucifer was not designed to sin (break God's law), but he did and his sin deceived a third of the angles, just like Adam and Eve, because God gIves everyone free will. He did not make us robots; He wants us to love and obey Him freely.

 

[GenemZ]

Thanks for the book references, I am more interested in scripture through.

Click on link C.)... Without Form and Void - Frontpage

Link C.) is a free book online.

You will see plenty of Scripture. And references to Bible scholars.

grace and peace .........

 

[Dah'veed]

Paul here is contrasting condemnation and justification- see Galatians 3:11. The argument is not whether the law operates or not, but whether as a justifier of guilty sinners. Paul clearly spells out the law is necessary as it reveals sin Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7 but not as a justifier from sin.

The law reveals sin so we know what not to do. Christ is of course the Promise, and no one said anything different.

Indeed, now that faith has come you are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:25-29

Jesus will be our righteous Judge and we will all find out soon enough who is teaching Truth and who is not.

For the Lord is our Judge, The Lord is our Lawgiver, The Lord is our King; Who saves us. Isaiah 33:22

 

[ViaCrucis]

But man can break the commandments and they did so you are comparing apples to oranges. There are many laws in the books in our government, just because we are not breaking them, doesn't mean they cease to exist, or we won't be held accountable if we do break.

We have laws because people can break them, and thus the laws exist to curb evil and to protect our general well-being. I have to stop at a red light because without those traffic laws someone could get seriously hurt. Would we need a law to say stop at red if we didn't have automobiles? No.

God didn't need to tell Adam not to worship any other gods, because the very idea of "other gods" couldn't have existed until after the Fall, when suddenly the estrangement of man from God meant idolatry suddenly became possible.

Before the invention of the automobile the idea of "running a red light" didn't, and couldn't, have existed--and so that law did not exist until it became possible.

So what does Paul say? The Law was given on account of the trespass. Without the trespass, no commandment was necessary; but when sin came, so the Law became necessary.

But then what? Did the Law have the power to change man from sinner to righteous? No, again what did Paul say? When the Law came the trespass increased because of sin.

The Law was given to show us sin, because of our sin.

Did God have commandments before the giving of the Law? Sure, "Be fruitful and multiply" is an example of that, as is "Do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil".

But the Decalogue did not come until Moses along with the rest of the Torah. Does that mean murder was okay before Moses, obviously not. But the Decalogue itself did not exist until Moses.

Because the Law was given on account of sin, that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment we might be be found sinful without measure; in order that, by the kindness and forbearance of God, He might show forth His mercy through the Gospel. Just as it is written, all have been consigned to disobedience in order that God might have mercy on all.

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God; but the free gift is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

You want to place the Decalogue in the Garden of Eden, when you should find Christ there.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Freth]

When Adam and Eve sinned they lost their spiritual clothes, it is not referring to human clothes. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, they allowed sin to enter into this world. Romans 5:12 which is when they realized they were naked Genesis 3:7 because they were no longer clothed in God's righteousness. Clothes in scripture has a deeper meaning than literal clothes. and we can see examples of this in Isaiah 64:6, Isaiah 61:1- Job 24:14 All of God's commandments are righteous Psalms 119:172 and too many people depend on their own works or righteousness instead of the works of God. Exodus 32:16

One of the last scriptures in the bible says:

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city

another translation says this

Revelation 22:14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.

We must have clean robes, which is not literal, but clean of sin, which is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7. we can only do this through Jesus Christ for those who wants to obey He enables us with the power to do so. John 14:15-18

You brought up something here that I wanted to touch on.

• Adam and Eve sinned and broke the commandments of God.
  • They lost their right to the tree of life and were expelled.
• The saints keep the commandments of God.
  • They gain the right to the tree of life and will enter.

This is a chiastic structure that spans the entirety of earth's history from beginning to end and further shows that the Ten Commandments were there from the beginning, and will be there in the end. Of course, we know that obedience of God was before creation, in heaven (as evidenced by the angels of heaven who did not fall), and we know that obedience of God will continue after the new heaven and new earth (Isaiah 66:23, et al).

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We have laws because people can break them, and thus the laws exist to curb evil and to protect our general well-being. I have to stop at a red light because without those traffic laws someone could get seriously hurt. Would we need a law to say stop at red if we didn't have automobiles? No.

Yes, we would need the law to stop at the stop sign becuase most people wouldn’t- we have a law for this now, yet still many people choose not to, can’t image what it would be like if there was no law, thus no consequences. God’s commandments were given to us because they are for our own good. We are blessed when we keep them and it unites us with God. Revelation 22:14. When we sin (break God’s law) it separates us from God and that is not good for us. Isaiah 59:2

This thinking that we can depend on our own righteousness is what got us in trouble- that we don’t need God’s law to know what is right or wrong- we can depend on our own righteousness instead of God’s. Psalms 119:172, our truth instead of God’s Truth Psalms 119:151 our works instead of God’s works Exodus 32:16

God didn't need to tell Adam not to worship any other gods, because the very idea of "other gods" couldn't have existed until after the Fall, when suddenly the estrangement of man from God meant idolatry suddenly became possible.

A god can be anything you place above our Heavenly Father- it could be money, sports, family, friends, a job. When you place that above God you are breaking commandment number 1 Exodus 20:3. Adam and Eve placed the teachings of the serpent, over the teachings of God thus breaking the very first commandment and many others as demonstrated in the OP.

Before the invention of the automobile the idea of "running a red light" didn't, and couldn't, have existed--and so that law did not exist until it became possible.

No government can survive on lawlessness- there was law in heaven first Revelation 11:19 which is what the earthy Temple was a replica of the heavenly Temple. In God’s Most Holy are the Ten Commandments- this is what Lucifer was guarding until he decided he did not need God’s law. This deception took a third of the angles and he and his angles have been deceiving people ever since saying we do not need God’s law, or it was altered despite God saying no one can alter His commandments Deut 4:2 and we are warned about changing one of God’s Word Proverbs 30:5-6

So what does Paul say? The Law was given on account of the trespass. Without the trespass, no commandment was necessary; but when sin came, so the Law became necessary.

Many misunderstand Paul- Paul clearly says without the law he would not know what sin is and points right to the Ten Commandments Romans 7:7

But then what? Did the Law have the power to change man from sinner to righteous?

It sure does…

Psalms 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul;
The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple

You can’t change something that is perfect- God’s law reflects God’s character, we are told to be more like God.

Paul tells us this:

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Not every “law” in scripture is the Ten Commandments- but God’s Ten Commandments are PERFECT they are written personally by God and is in His Most Holy Temple where He dwells and what we all will be judged by James 2:10-12

The Law was given to show us sin, because of our sin.

The Ten Commandments was given so we would live holy lives breaking these laws separated us from God- the commandments are what reveals sin Romans 7:7 so we know what not to do and keeping these commandments will once again unite us with God Revelation 22:14 because its a reflection we have been changed by Jesus.

Because the Law was given on account of sin,

Sin is the transgression of the law 1 John 3:4 and without law there is no transgression Romans 4:15 so therefore there has always been law- which is why the earthy Temple was replicated from God’s Heavenly Temple.

that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment we might be be found sinful without measure; in order that, by the kindness and forbearance of God, He might show forth His mercy through the Gospel. Just as it is written, all have been consigned to disobedience in order that God might have mercy on all.

God did not give us commandments that are optional. They are not multiple choice. Do you make an effort not to steal, murder or covet? You can easily apply that to the other commandments. For those who wish to obey-Jesus provides us the Holy Spirit so we don’t have to do it alone. John 14:15-18. What is impossible to do on our own is possible through Jesus Christ. The other spirit wants us to think he is more powerful to keep us in sin than Jesus is to keep us from sin. Jesus came to save us from our sins Matthew 1:21 not in them.

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God; but the free gift is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

Amen and through Jesus Christ we have a Mediator and can go directly to Him if we slip and fall and through Him we can keep His commandments through love and faith. Romans 3:31 Revelation 14:12, 1 John 5:3, John 14:15, Exodus 20:6

You want to place the Decalogue in the Garden of Eden, when you should find Christ there.

-CryptoLutheran

Jesus is everywhere. Our Lord asks us to walk in the light:

Eph 5:8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.

God’s commandments are light- they are Good Romans 7:12, Righteous Psalms 119:172 and Truth Psalms 119:151, just like God. Disobedience to God is not walking in the light. Eph 5:6

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You brought up something here that I wanted to touch on.

• Adam and Eve sinned and broke the commandments of God.
  • They lost their right to the tree of life and were expelled.
• The saints keep the commandments of God.
  • They gain the right to the tree of life and will enter.

This is a chiastic structure that spans the entirety of earth's history from beginning to end and further shows that the Ten Commandments were there from the beginning, and will be there in the end. Of course, we know that obedience of God was before creation, in heaven (as evidenced by the angels of heaven who did not fall), and we know that obedience of God will continue after the new heaven and new earth (Isaiah 66:23, et al).

The biggest deception ever is the teachings from most churches that we no longer have to keep the Ten Commandments, or it was altered. It really is this simple as you demonstrated. Happy Sabbath!

 

[Dah'veed]

This is a chiastic structure that spans the entirety of earth's history from beginning to end and further shows that the Ten Commandments were there from the beginning, and will be there in the end.

The biggest deception ever is the teachings from most churches that we no longer have to keep the Ten Commandments, or it was altered. It really is this simple as you demonstrated. Happy Sabbath!

Spoken like a zealous SDA.

"All things were created by the Son of God. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God. . . . All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made." John 1:1-3. And since the Sabbath is a memorial of the work of [redemption], it is a token of the love and power of Christ.​

"Wherefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath."​

"Come unto Me, all ye that labor and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." Matt 11:28. DOA, whiteestate.org​

​

"Let it be understood that merely refraining from work is not God’s idea of Sabbath-keeping. It may be Sunday-keeping; it may be Saturday-keeping; it may be Friday-keeping; it may be Monday-keeping; but it is not Sabbath-keeping. It is not Sabbath-keeping, because the idea of Sabbath is spiritual rest.​

The one who is converted, in whom the power of God through Jesus Christ has been manifested to create him anew, ... it is therefore impossible for one to keep the Sabbath unless Christ, whose presence gives rest, dwells in his heart by faith." CAS,writings.org​

​

"In the rainbow above the throne is an everlasting testimony that "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Whenever the law is presented before the people, let the teacher of the truth point to the throne arched with the rainbow of promise, the righteousness of Christ." #whitedefendsthefaith​

 

[GDL]

You were an anointed guardian cherub,
and I placed you on God’s holy mountain;
you walked in the midst of stones of fire.
You were blameless in your ways
from the day when you were created,
until wickedness was found in you." Ezek 28:14-15

Does anyone think their ideas through?

Blameless and wicked according to what standard?

 

[GenemZ]

Blameless and wicked according to what standard?

You were an anointed guardian cherub,
and I placed you on God’s holy mountain;
you walked in the midst of stones of fire.
You were blameless in your ways
from the day when you were created,
until wickedness was found in you." Ezek 28:14-15

Who created Lucifer? God.

Are you saying that any angel that God created.... As God originally created that angel?
Could be wicked and worthy of blame in any way? That God can create wickedness?

Likewise, before his fall, Adam was faultless and not wicked. Only after his fall did he become sinful by nature.

Negative volition is what transformed both Satan and Adam after they chose to rebel.

The standard you ask about was set by God.

grace and peace ....................

 

[GenemZ]

This is my understanding of God's law, that it has always existed. Lucifer was a covering cherub, meaning he watched over the law in heaven.

Lucifer watched over and guarded the Lord's Throne when the Lord was not there.

Its why he wanted to replace the Lord and sit on his throne.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Lucifer watched over and guarded the Lord's Throne when the Lord was not there.

Its why he wanted to replace the Lord and sit on his throne.

Exodus 25:19 Make one cherub at one end, and the other cherub at the other end; you shall make the cherubim at the two ends of it of one piece with the mercy seat. 20 And the cherubim shall stretch out their wings above, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and they shall face one another; the faces of the cherubim shall be toward the mercy seat. 21 You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you.

 

[GDL]

You were an anointed guardian cherub,
and I placed you on God’s holy mountain;
you walked in the midst of stones of fire.
You were blameless in your ways
from the day when you were created,
until wickedness was found in you." Ezek 28:14-15

Who created Lucifer? God.

Are you saying that any angel that God created.... As God originally created that angel?
Could be wicked and worthy of blame in any way? That God can create wickedness?

Likewise, before his fall, Adam was faultless and not wicked. Only after his fall did he become sinful by nature.

Negative volition is what transformed both Satan and Adam after they chose to rebel.

The standard you ask about was set by God.

grace and peace ....................

I'm asking what standard God used to determine blamelessness vs. wickedness. You say God did set the standard. So, what standard did God set that specified what would determine one to be blameless or wicked?

Negative volition and rebellion concerning what, specifically?

Blameless in ways, and wickedness are words that carry through to more Scripture. They have to do with things that are opposed to a standard and are used in correlation to law and sin.

 

[GenemZ]

I'm asking what standard God used to determine blamelessness vs. wickedness. You say God did set the standard. So, what standard did God set that specified what would determine one to be blameless or wicked?

Negative volition and rebellion concerning what, specifically?

Blameless in ways, and wickedness are words that carry through to more Scripture. They have to do with things that are opposed to a standard and are used in correlation to law and sin.

I will have to come back to you later....

When you have enough Bible knowledge to think with.