Ten Commandments in the Garden of Eden

GDL

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You are approaching this in a manner that is foreign to how my thinking works.

In the manner you express yourself? To me is like a group lawyers discussing an issue. They approach it in a manner which another not trained in their discipline (regardless of his own IQ) will not be able to relate back to them as they ask.



God was using His own standard.

A standard that we as believers must study the Word and learn to grow in grace to understand.

One more time. What do you mean by ":standard?"

When you asked, "by what standard?" I was perplexed. Its obviously God's standard.

Ezekiel 28 is to be understood to have been expressed according to God's standard.

Now, when you stated "standard?" You may have chosen a wrong word. That is possible.

Maybe? Try another term, and please ask me again if you wish.


grace and peace .............................
This thread is entitled "Ten Commandments in the Garden of Eden" and is a discussion as to when God's Law was made known. When I say "standard" I'm speaking of God's Law - His standard of righteousness. My apology for not being clearer.

When I looked at your referenced Scripture from Ez28, I looked quickly at the words "blameless" and "wickedness." Here is a lexical definition of the Hebrew word translated as wickedness (the bold highlight is mine):

)1580b) עַוְלָה (±awlâ( injustice, unrighteousness.

)1580c) עַוָּל (±aww¹l( unjust, unrighteous one.

)1580d) עֲוִיל (±¦wîl( unjust one.

The Arabic cognate ±wl means "to deviate." Likewise in Hebrew the basic meaning of this root means to deviate from a right standard, to act contrary to what is right. The root occurs sixty times, with forty of these found in Job (sixteen times); Psalms (thirteen times) and Ezekiel e*leven times): The rest are distributed throughout the prophetic and legal literature.


Here is a lexical definition of the Greek word used in the LXX (again, bold highlighting is mine):

[BDAG] ἀδίκημα
• ἀδίκημα, ατος, τό (Hdt.+; ins, pap, LXX, En; TestJob 37:6; Philo, Joseph., Just., Ath.; Mel., P. 73, 534; 81, 597)

1. a violation of norms of justice, a wrong, crime, misdeed (Aristot., EN 5, 7 τὸ ἄδικον … ὅταν πραχθῇ, ἀ. ἐστιν; Appian, Bell. Civ. 4, 69 §292; Jos., Ant. 3, 321; 5, 234) Ac 18:14; 24:20; Rv 18:5.

2. that which causes harm or injury, mistreatment, pl. (En 13:2; Diod. S. 14, 2, 2; PHal 1, 193) IRo 5:1.—DELG s.v. δίκη. M-M. TW.


My question to you concerned why we're told that this anointed cherub was once seen as blameless and then with wickedness? These are words frequently used in relation to being in conformity or non-conformity with God's Law. You can see in the Hebrew root the main sense of deviating from a right standard.

God's standard is a good catch-all, but what standard: His Law or???? There is extensive published exegetical research discussing when exactly God's Law was made known. Those who go with Moses and Paul's instruction regarding the Law coming 400+ years after the Abrahamic promise have trouble with Genesis 26:5 and Abraham keeping God's Law way before Moses. Others have detailed how 9 or 10 of the 10 Commandments can be seen in Genesis. The work @SabbathBlessings is detailing seems to be similar to some of this work I mention.

IMO it's very difficult to consider God's Righteous standards based in God's righteous character not being made known to His creatures from the beginning. I and others I've read who study and ponder such things do acknowledge that some of this is argued from silence.

I appreciate your continuation. I assure you I can keep up with you if I choose to continue. I can also ask questions if I'm not certain I understand you. I'm also not adverse to acknowledging someone having greater understanding than I do. As I continue to draw breath, I continue to desire to learn His Word. Some topics are more important to me than others.
 
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GenemZ

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This thread is entitled "Ten Commandments in the Garden of Eden" and is a discussion as to when God's Law was made known. When I say "standard" I'm speaking of God's Law - His standard of righteousness. My apology for not being clearer.

When I looked at your referenced Scripture from Ez28, I looked quickly at the words "blameless" and "wickedness." Here is a lexical definition of the Hebrew word translated as wickedness (the bold highlight is mine):

)1580b) עַוְלָה (±awlâ( injustice, unrighteousness.

)1580c) עַוָּל (±aww¹l( unjust, unrighteous one.

)1580d) עֲוִיל (±¦wîl( unjust one.

The Arabic cognate ±wl means "to deviate." Likewise in Hebrew the basic meaning of this root means to deviate from a right standard, to act contrary to what is right. The root occurs sixty times, with forty of these found in Job (sixteen times); Psalms (thirteen times) and Ezekiel e*leven times): The rest are distributed throughout the prophetic and legal literature.


Here is a lexical definition of the Greek word used in the LXX (again, bold highlighting is mine):

[BDAG] ἀδίκημα
• ἀδίκημα, ατος, τό (Hdt.+; ins, pap, LXX, En; TestJob 37:6; Philo, Joseph., Just., Ath.; Mel., P. 73, 534; 81, 597)

1. a violation of norms of justice, a wrong, crime, misdeed (Aristot., EN 5, 7 τὸ ἄδικον … ὅταν πραχθῇ, ἀ. ἐστιν; Appian, Bell. Civ. 4, 69 §292; Jos., Ant. 3, 321; 5, 234) Ac 18:14; 24:20; Rv 18:5.

2. that which causes harm or injury, mistreatment, pl. (En 13:2; Diod. S. 14, 2, 2; PHal 1, 193) IRo 5:1.—DELG s.v. δίκη. M-M. TW.


My question to you concerned why we're told that this anointed cherub was once seen as blameless and then with wickedness? These are words frequently used in relation to being in conformity or non-conformity with God's Law. You can see in the Hebrew root the main sense of deviating from a right standard.

God's standard is a good catch-all, but what standard: His Law or???? There is extensive published exegetical research discussing when exactly God's Law was made known. Those who go with Moses and Paul's instruction regarding the Law coming 400+ years after the Abrahamic promise have trouble with Genesis 26:5 and Abraham keeping God's Law way before Moses. Others have detailed how 9 or 10 of the 10 Commandments can be seen in Genesis. The work @SabbathBlessings is detailing seems to be similar to some of this work I mention.

IMO it's very difficult to consider God's Righteous standards based in God's righteous character not being made known to His creatures from the beginning. I and others I've read who study and ponder such things do acknowledge that some of this is argued from silence.

I appreciate your continuation. I assure you I can keep up with you if I choose to continue. I can also ask questions if I'm not certain I understand you. I'm also not adverse to acknowledging someone having greater understanding than I do. As I continue to draw breath, I continue to desire to learn His Word. Some topics are more important to me than others.
Without there being any law... Before Lucifer fell? God's righteousness and integrity was always manifested in God as the standard for angels to emulate.

When Lucifer deviated and stepped outside of doing what is righteous? God did not instantly condemn Lucifer. Instead, God condemned Lucifer's actions. Then began the process of God disciplining Lucifer as a son. God disciplined Lucifer as a father would a son.

He made Lucifer hurt to show Lucifer that he was not as powerful as he assumed he was. God disciplined while reasoning, as to why Lucifer needed to repent. To "change his thinking."

Only after sins became defined could any law be made manifest. To Satan and the angels apparently God's law was given orally.....


Will gladly explain if interested.



Grace and peace!
 
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GDL

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Without there being any law... Before Lucifer fell? God's righteousness and integrity was always manifested in God as the standard for angels to emulate.

When Lucifer deviated and stepped outside of doing what is righteous? God did not instantly condemn Lucifer. Instead, God condemned Lucifer's actions. Then began the process of God disciplining Lucifer as a son. God disciplined Lucifer as a father would a son.

He made Lucifer hurt to show Lucifer that he was not as powerful as he assumed he was. God disciplined while reasoning, as to why Lucifer needed to repent. To "change his thinking."

Only after sins became defined could any law be made manifest. To Satan and the angels apparently God's law was given orally.....


Will gladly explain if interested.



Grace and peace!
No explanation needed based upon your last sentence as this is all I was asking for. God's Law being God's standard of righteousness for His creation based upon God's perfectly righteous character that God constantly and perfectly manifests, was apparently given to Satan and the angels orally. This in essence is the premise of those who do focused studies on God's Law and the reason applied to Abraham keeping God's Law before Moses, most or all of the 10 Commandments being seen in Genesis, and God warning Cain about sin - God gave His Law to His creation orally well before Sinai. The discussion among the studiers of God's Law is what the actual content was before Sinai.

Now, without going back and rereading the @SabbathBlessings OP, it seems there may be a basis for its premise.

Thanks for the discussion.

Does anyone think their ideas through?
Yes, many of us do.
 
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GenemZ

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I found this interesting article about the Ten Commandments in the Garden of Eden.


Many Christians, including myself a while ago, believe that God first made His Ten Commandments known on mount Sinai. However, in this blog post, we are going to show that God ‘covertly’ revealed the Ten Commandments in the beginning, in the Garden of Eden to Adam and Eve, our first parents. It is a Revelation by Grace!

But how was this discovery made? Ironically, we discovered it in the last book of the Bible, in the book of Revelations 3:14-22, the letter to the church of Laodicea.

In the letter to the church of Laodicea, Jesus Christ addresses the church of today, the last church period in church history, the church of Laodicea, and states that it is naked and needs to buy of Him white raiment to cover the shame of its nakedness.

So the question we have to ask is, how did the church of Laodicea become naked in the first place, and what is this white raiment Jesus Christ strongly recommended as the remedy to our state of nakedness?

After going through the Bible, we discover there’s a similar situation of nakedness and white raiments in the book of Genesis in the story of Adam and Eve. Meaning if we study what occurred in the Garden of Eden that caused Adam and Eve to become naked, we can understand why the church of Laodicea is naked today. But wait a minute? How were Adam and Eve clothed at their creation in the first place before they became naked? From Psalm 8:5 and Isaiah 61:10, we learn that at their creation, God clothed Adam and Eve with glory and honor in garments of light (white), which represented the righteousness of God. So basically, God clothed Adam and Eve just as He and the angels were, in garments of white or light.

So the next logical question is that what then is the Righteousness of God? From Psalm 119:172, Isaiah 51:6-7, 1 John 5:17 and 1 John 3:4, we learn that the Righteousness of God is His everlasting covenant, the Ten Commandments, which is His Holy law. Not the Mosaic law! There’s a difference between the two.

This means that in the Garden of Eden, God clothed Adam and Eve with His Holy Law, which was represented by the white garments, and when they sinned and disobeyed Him, they lost that robe of righteousness and became naked! By eating the fruit of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, which God commanded them not to eat, Adam and Eve sinned and broke the Ten Commandments in the Garden of Eden, therefore losing the garment of white, which is the righteousness of God.


Now that we are on the same page, we can now proceed to tackle the question, which of the Ten Commandments did Adam and Eve break? The answer is the full monty, all the ten at once!

“Thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,” cannot be found in the 10 Commandments, however, in the simple statement, “But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die,” God places all the principles of the 10 Commandments.

The purpose of this blog post is to show by eating of that fruit, Adam and Eve broke all the ten commandments.

The first point we have to consider is the Bible’s definition of sin found in 1 John 3:4 “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law,” meaning whenever we sin, we transgress an element of the Ten Commandments.

The second point to note is that the law of God is spiritual, according to Romans 7:14, where Paul states, “For we know that the Law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.” Why is the Law of God spiritual? We find the answer in Jesus’s conversation with the Samaritan woman in John 4:24, “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” Since the Creator of the universe and author of the 10 Commandments is Spirit, it is just natural that the document He authored is also in Spirit.

Usually, when we think of the 10 Commandments, we look at it literally as a list of 10 to do things. However, when we look at it from a spiritual point of view, we see that it’s more than ten and more profound than we can imagine. The number 10 in the Bible symbolizes ordinal perfection in the totality of God’s government. Psalm 119:96 states, “I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad.” It is limitless and encompasses every sin under the universe, and the angels are also subject to it just as we are. It is similar to the parables of the ten virgins (Matt 25:1-13), the ten lepers (Luke 17:11-19), the ten talents (Matt 25:14-30), and the ten minas (Luke 19:12-27). The number ten used in all these parables are prophetic and symbolic of the totality of the faithful.

Also, the law being Spirit should not be surprising because even laws written by humans is said to be in letter and Spirit. Constitutions of nations and governments are argued both in letter and spirit, so how much more the law that was written by God, who is Spirit? The Spirit of the law is the profound purpose, intention, and reasoning behind the letter of the law that we see. It is the part of the law that we do not see, but the more critical component of the law. Whenever we change the letter of the law it means that we have also changed the reason and original intent, which is the foundation upon which the law sits, which is the most critical aspect of the law. That is why the Lord warned us in Proverbs 22:28, “Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set.” An example between letter and spirit of the law at home when your parents tell their teenagers not to have premarital sex until they are responsible adults. The teenager may not be happy and understand because they want to experience it. However, the spirit behind the law is that the parent is protecting their adolescent child from getting teenage pregnancy, which could derail their education and future stability or contracting an STD, which could end their life.

Part 2 to follow…
There was only one law in the Garden of Eden. Only one.

And, they broke it. They were not even told to keep the sabbath.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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There was only one law in the Garden of Eden. Only one.

And, they broke it. They were not even told to keep the sabbath.
The scripture in the OP disagrees and you have not made a compelling argument to dispute it, but we are entitled to our opinions.
 
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GenemZ

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I found this interesting article about the Ten Commandments in the Garden of Eden.


Many Christians, including myself a while ago, believe that God first made His Ten Commandments known on mount Sinai. However, in this blog post, we are going to show that God ‘covertly’ revealed the Ten Commandments in the beginning, in the Garden of Eden to Adam and Eve, our first parents. It is a Revelation by Grace!

But how was this discovery made? Ironically, we discovered it in the last book of the Bible, in the book of Revelations 3:14-22, the letter to the church of Laodicea.

In the letter to the church of Laodicea, Jesus Christ addresses the church of today, the last church period in church history, the church of Laodicea, and states that it is naked and needs to buy of Him white raiment to cover the shame of its nakedness.

So the question we have to ask is, how did the church of Laodicea become naked in the first place, and what is this white raiment Jesus Christ strongly recommended as the remedy to our state of nakedness?

After going through the Bible, we discover there’s a similar situation of nakedness and white raiments in the book of Genesis in the story of Adam and Eve. Meaning if we study what occurred in the Garden of Eden that caused Adam and Eve to become naked, we can understand why the church of Laodicea is naked today. But wait a minute? How were Adam and Eve clothed at their creation in the first place before they became naked? From Psalm 8:5 and Isaiah 61:10, we learn that at their creation, God clothed Adam and Eve with glory and honor in garments of light (white), which represented the righteousness of God. So basically, God clothed Adam and Eve just as He and the angels were, in garments of white or light.

So the next logical question is that what then is the Righteousness of God? From Psalm 119:172, Isaiah 51:6-7, 1 John 5:17 and 1 John 3:4, we learn that the Righteousness of God is His everlasting covenant, the Ten Commandments, which is His Holy law. Not the Mosaic law! There’s a difference between the two.

This means that in the Garden of Eden, God clothed Adam and Eve with His Holy Law, which was represented by the white garments, and when they sinned and disobeyed Him, they lost that robe of righteousness and became naked! By eating the fruit of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, which God commanded them not to eat, Adam and Eve sinned and broke the Ten Commandments in the Garden of Eden, therefore losing the garment of white, which is the righteousness of God.


Now that we are on the same page, we can now proceed to tackle the question, which of the Ten Commandments did Adam and Eve break? The answer is the full monty, all the ten at once!

“Thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,” cannot be found in the 10 Commandments, however, in the simple statement, “But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die,” God places all the principles of the 10 Commandments.

The purpose of this blog post is to show by eating of that fruit, Adam and Eve broke all the ten commandments.

The first point we have to consider is the Bible’s definition of sin found in 1 John 3:4 “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law,” meaning whenever we sin, we transgress an element of the Ten Commandments.

The second point to note is that the law of God is spiritual, according to Romans 7:14, where Paul states, “For we know that the Law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.” Why is the Law of God spiritual? We find the answer in Jesus’s conversation with the Samaritan woman in John 4:24, “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” Since the Creator of the universe and author of the 10 Commandments is Spirit, it is just natural that the document He authored is also in Spirit.

Usually, when we think of the 10 Commandments, we look at it literally as a list of 10 to do things. However, when we look at it from a spiritual point of view, we see that it’s more than ten and more profound than we can imagine. The number 10 in the Bible symbolizes ordinal perfection in the totality of God’s government. Psalm 119:96 states, “I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad.” It is limitless and encompasses every sin under the universe, and the angels are also subject to it just as we are. It is similar to the parables of the ten virgins (Matt 25:1-13), the ten lepers (Luke 17:11-19), the ten talents (Matt 25:14-30), and the ten minas (Luke 19:12-27). The number ten used in all these parables are prophetic and symbolic of the totality of the faithful.

Also, the law being Spirit should not be surprising because even laws written by humans is said to be in letter and Spirit. Constitutions of nations and governments are argued both in letter and spirit, so how much more the law that was written by God, who is Spirit? The Spirit of the law is the profound purpose, intention, and reasoning behind the letter of the law that we see. It is the part of the law that we do not see, but the more critical component of the law. Whenever we change the letter of the law it means that we have also changed the reason and original intent, which is the foundation upon which the law sits, which is the most critical aspect of the law. That is why the Lord warned us in Proverbs 22:28, “Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set.” An example between letter and spirit of the law at home when your parents tell their teenagers not to have premarital sex until they are responsible adults. The teenager may not be happy and understand because they want to experience it. However, the spirit behind the law is that the parent is protecting their adolescent child from getting teenage pregnancy, which could derail their education and future stability or contracting an STD, which could end their life.

Part 2 to follow…
One can make up any theory they wish with just using a key word.
Which is what this OP is.

Here is Revelation 3:14-22

“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation.
I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other!
So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that
you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in
the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful
nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. Here I am! I stand at the
door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that
person, and they with me.
To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was
victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. Whoever has ears, let them hear what
the Spirit says to the churches.”


Gadzooks! That went way off topic to think the Ten Commandments were in the Garden because someone later was called naked!

Tell me? Were the 10 Commandments also in Job's mother's womb?

At this, Job got up and tore his robe and shaved his head.
Then he fell to the ground in worship and said:
“Naked I came from my mother’s womb,
and naked I will depart.
The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away;
may the name of the Lord be praised.”

In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing."

Job 1:20-22


:coffee:


:coffee: :coffee:
 
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SabbathBlessings

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One can make up any theory they wish with just using a key word.
Which is what this OP is.

Here is Revelation 3:14-22

“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation.
I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other!
So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that
you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in
the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful
nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. Here I am! I stand at the
door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that
person, and they with me.
To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was
victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. Whoever has ears, let them hear what
the Spirit says to the churches.”


Gadzooks! That went way off topic to think the Ten Commandments were in the Garden because someone later was called naked!

Tell me? Were the 10 Commandments also in Job's mother's womb?

At this, Job got up and tore his robe and shaved his head.
Then he fell to the ground in worship and said:
“Naked I came from my mother’s womb,
and naked I will depart.
The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away;
may the name of the Lord be praised.”

In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing."

Job 1:20-22


:coffee:


:coffee: :coffee:
Are you claiming this is your proof that God's Ten Commandments have not always been? Lucifer was a covering cherub, meaning he watched over the Ten Commandments- God's law is in heaven Revelation 11:19 and the earthy temple was an exact replica of God's heavenly Temple where God dwells and where God's eternal law resides. If you believe Adam and Eve were free to worship other gods, vain God's holy name, bow to images or break God's holy Sabbath, that's your choice, but Adam and Eve both sinned and broke the very first commandment when they placed their desires (their god) over worshipping God first and man has been following the same path of disobedience ever since. This path separated man from God, God blesses those who keep His commandments at His Second Coming and are reconciled with God Revelation 22:14 while those who choose to place their will over God's we are told are left outside Revelation 22:15, Matthew 7:21-23. I find it amazing that so many people take objection to God's Commandments that God keeps in the Most Holy of His Temple, His will and Testimony written by His own finger, but claim to be followers of God.
 
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GenemZ

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Are you claiming this is your proof that God's Ten Commandments have not always been? Lucifer was a covering cherub, meaning he watched over the Ten Commandments- God's law is in heaven Revelation 11:19 and the earthy temple was an exact replica of God's heavenly Temple where God dwells and where God's eternal law resides.


There have been more than one Cherub.

What was guarded in heaven by Lucifer is not the same as to what was guarded in the Ark in Israel.

There are TWO Cherubs over the Ark. Not one. Lucifer is not two angels.

"You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones."
Ezekiel 28:14​


Note: It says he was "a" guardian cherub.

It does not say, "the" guardian cherub!

The Ark had two guardian cherubs to guard the Ark.

If it were to represent the ark in heaven? Only one cherub could be presented.

Why would Lucifer have to guard the Ten Commandments? When the fact, he was that he was a guardian angel before man was created?????

No sin? = no Law.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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There have been more than one Cherub.

What was guarded in heaven by Lucifer is not the same as to what was guarded in the Ark in Israel.

There are TWO Cherubs over the Ark. Not one. Lucifer is not two angels.

"You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones."
Ezekiel 28:14​


Note: It says he was "a" guardian cherub.

It does not say, "the" guardian cherub!

The Ark had two guardian cherubs to guard the Ark.

If it were to represent the ark in heaven? Only one cherub could be presented.

Why would Lucifer have to guard the Ten Commandments? When the fact, he was that he was a guardian angel before man was created?????

No sin? = no Law.
I‘m not sure where you get I said there was only one cherub covering the ark of the covenant, I never stated that, but Lucifer was one of them until he sinned (broke God’s law) 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7 Ezekiel 28:16 and was thrown out of heaven.
 
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GenemZ

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I‘m not sure where you get I said there was only one cherub covering the ark of the covenant, I never stated that, but Lucifer was one of them until he sinned (broke God’s law) 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7 Ezekiel 28:16 and was thrown out of heaven.

All Cherubim were guardians. Not only for the ark.

When Satan was thrown out of heaven he fell like lightning to the earth.....
It does not say he was thrown down right after he rebelled.


Ezekiel 28:16

In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned;
so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and I destroyed you, O guardian
cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."


The Hebrew indicates that Lucifer spread slander and lies against the Lord among the angels! He was selling them his lies!

` By your far-flung enterprises/commerce, you {Satan} were filled with violence/lawlessness
and you sinned."


grace and peace ...........
 
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SabbathBlessings

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All Cherubim were guardians. Not only for the ark.

When Satan was thrown out of heaven he fell like lightning to the earth.....
It does not say he was thrown down right after he rebelled.
I never said Lucifer was zapped out of heaven the moment he sinned, but his sin resulted in him being cast out of heaven. We have a fair God and I trust that. There is a theory that man was created to judge the angels so God could be fair, but that topic is for another thread.
Ezekiel 28:16

In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned;
so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and I destroyed you, O guardian
cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."


The Hebrew indicates that Lucifer spread slander and lies against the Lord among the angels! He was selling them his lies!

` By your far-flung enterprises/commerce, you {Satan} were filled with violence/lawlessness
and you sinned."

grace and peace ...........
Your commentary does not match the scripture you posted- I do not see where it says all angles were covering the ark. Ezekiel 28:16 is referring to Lucifer.
 
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GenemZ

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Your commentary does not match the scripture you posted- I do not see where it says all angles were covering the ark. Ezekiel 28:16 is referring to Lucifer.
So? Now the Ark was fiery stones?


"So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you,
guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones."

:scratch: fiery stones = ark?
 
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Richard.20.12

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Here is the problem with the premise of this thread......

There was only one commandment in the Garden. Only one.

If that one commandment had been obeyed?

There would be no ten commandments later on.
But do we know there was only one commandment in the Garden of Eden? They were new on the Earth. God must have had to explain so many things to them as they didn't "grow up" but arrived as full grown adults. Many of those "things" must have been rules and guidelines. Like don't walk near cliffs??? Watch where you walk? Sharp things can hurt you? Heavy things can crush your feet? Basic stuff we take for granted because of our life experience (of walking off cliffs).

We really don't know anything much about the Garden. We don't even know how long they were there. They could have been there for 129 years before they gave in to that fruit. Because Abel had his first child at age 130. Of course we don't know how long pregnancy lasted back then either. They lived about 10 times longer than today and they had their first child at about 5 times older than we do. We just don't know much of anything of life back then.

The original post mentioned Adam and Eve being clothed in white after they realized they were naked (and ashamed of their mistake). Yet Genesis mentions God clothing them in animal skins. Not many animal skins are white as white animals find it exceedingly difficult to hide from predators if there's no snow around.

It's important to separate the literal from the figurative. The Bible has much symbolism which teaches us much. But it's also literal at times. When God says animal skins that's literal. When something is "clothed in light" that is obviously figurative and symbolic. It's also important not to "fill in the blanks" with our own assumptions as facts. They're just possibilities. Nothing more. They may be true and they may not be true. Humility is important when reading the Word.
 
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But do we know there was only one commandment in the Garden of Eden? They were new on the Earth. God must have had to explain so many things to them as they didn't "grow up" but arrived as full grown adults. Many of those "things" must have been rules and guidelines. Like don't walk near cliffs??? Watch where you walk? Sharp things can hurt you? Heavy things can crush your feet? Basic stuff we take for granted because of our life experience (of walking off cliffs).

They had no need for any knowledge of Good and Evil.

They would roll down nice hills, not off cliffs. No thorns and thistles existed before the fall.
No cuts and bruises. It was a 24 hour "Paradise."

The single command was one for obedience to God. The same test that Satan and his angels failed while in their perfect state.

Without there being any evil existing? There would be zero need to any normal command. Evil would mean anything that could hurt or destroy.

That is how the word is used when God says "He creates evil." When God creates evil it could be some disaster used in judgment.
Or a bee hive someone walks into. :angel:
 
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I found this interesting article about the Ten Commandments in the Garden of Eden.


Many Christians, including myself a while ago, believe that God first made His Ten Commandments known on mount Sinai. However, in this blog post, we are going to show that God ‘covertly’ revealed the Ten Commandments in the beginning, in the Garden of Eden to Adam and Eve, our first parents. It is a Revelation by Grace!

But how was this discovery made? Ironically, we discovered it in the last book of the Bible, in the book of Revelations 3:14-22, the letter to the church of Laodicea.

In the letter to the church of Laodicea, Jesus Christ addresses the church of today, the last church period in church history, the church of Laodicea, and states that it is naked and needs to buy of Him white raiment to cover the shame of its nakedness.

So the question we have to ask is, how did the church of Laodicea become naked in the first place, and what is this white raiment Jesus Christ strongly recommended as the remedy to our state of nakedness?

After going through the Bible, we discover there’s a similar situation of nakedness and white raiments in the book of Genesis in the story of Adam and Eve. Meaning if we study what occurred in the Garden of Eden that caused Adam and Eve to become naked, we can understand why the church of Laodicea is naked today. But wait a minute? How were Adam and Eve clothed at their creation in the first place before they became naked? From Psalm 8:5 and Isaiah 61:10, we learn that at their creation, God clothed Adam and Eve with glory and honor in garments of light (white), which represented the righteousness of God. So basically, God clothed Adam and Eve just as He and the angels were, in garments of white or light.

So the next logical question is that what then is the Righteousness of God? From Psalm 119:172, Isaiah 51:6-7, 1 John 5:17 and 1 John 3:4, we learn that the Righteousness of God is His everlasting covenant, the Ten Commandments, which is His Holy law. Not the Mosaic law! There’s a difference between the two.

This means that in the Garden of Eden, God clothed Adam and Eve with His Holy Law, which was represented by the white garments, and when they sinned and disobeyed Him, they lost that robe of righteousness and became naked! By eating the fruit of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, which God commanded them not to eat, Adam and Eve sinned and broke the Ten Commandments in the Garden of Eden, therefore losing the garment of white, which is the righteousness of God.


Now that we are on the same page, we can now proceed to tackle the question, which of the Ten Commandments did Adam and Eve break? The answer is the full monty, all the ten at once!

“Thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,” cannot be found in the 10 Commandments, however, in the simple statement, “But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die,” God places all the principles of the 10 Commandments.

The purpose of this blog post is to show by eating of that fruit, Adam and Eve broke all the ten commandments.

The first point we have to consider is the Bible’s definition of sin found in 1 John 3:4 “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law,” meaning whenever we sin, we transgress an element of the Ten Commandments.

The second point to note is that the law of God is spiritual, according to Romans 7:14, where Paul states, “For we know that the Law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.” Why is the Law of God spiritual? We find the answer in Jesus’s conversation with the Samaritan woman in John 4:24, “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” Since the Creator of the universe and author of the 10 Commandments is Spirit, it is just natural that the document He authored is also in Spirit.

Usually, when we think of the 10 Commandments, we look at it literally as a list of 10 to do things. However, when we look at it from a spiritual point of view, we see that it’s more than ten and more profound than we can imagine. The number 10 in the Bible symbolizes ordinal perfection in the totality of God’s government. Psalm 119:96 states, “I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad.” It is limitless and encompasses every sin under the universe, and the angels are also subject to it just as we are. It is similar to the parables of the ten virgins (Matt 25:1-13), the ten lepers (Luke 17:11-19), the ten talents (Matt 25:14-30), and the ten minas (Luke 19:12-27). The number ten used in all these parables are prophetic and symbolic of the totality of the faithful.

Also, the law being Spirit should not be surprising because even laws written by humans is said to be in letter and Spirit. Constitutions of nations and governments are argued both in letter and spirit, so how much more the law that was written by God, who is Spirit? The Spirit of the law is the profound purpose, intention, and reasoning behind the letter of the law that we see. It is the part of the law that we do not see, but the more critical component of the law. Whenever we change the letter of the law it means that we have also changed the reason and original intent, which is the foundation upon which the law sits, which is the most critical aspect of the law. That is why the Lord warned us in Proverbs 22:28, “Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set.” An example between letter and spirit of the law at home when your parents tell their teenagers not to have premarital sex until they are responsible adults. The teenager may not be happy and understand because they want to experience it. However, the spirit behind the law is that the parent is protecting their adolescent child from getting teenage pregnancy, which could derail their education and future stability or contracting an STD, which could end their life.

Part 2 to follow…
i got this far into your theology

you state ... "we learn that at their creation, God clothed Adam and Eve with glory and honor in garments of light (white), which represented the righteousness of God. So basically, God clothed Adam and Eve just as He and the angels were, in garments of white or light."

the scrip does not say this .... by adding to the scrip you by doing so take away from it ...
 
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SabbathBlessings

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i got this far into your theology

you state ... "we learn that at their creation, God clothed Adam and Eve with glory and honor in garments of light (white), which represented the righteousness of God. So basically, God clothed Adam and Eve just as He and the angels were, in garments of white or light."

the scrip does not say this .... by adding to the scrip you by doing so take away from it ...
Not in Genesis, but like most books, we don't find every little detail of an entire book on the first page. All of God's Word is for our learning and correction 2 Tim 3:16

Clothing in scripture means righteousness. A few examples:

Job 29:14 “I put on righteousness, and it clothed me;
My justice was like a robe and a turban.

Isa 59:17 He put on righteousness like a breastplate,
And a helmet of salvation on His head;
And He put on garments of vengeance for clothing
And wrapped Himself with zeal as a mantle.

Isa 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord,
My soul shall be joyful in my God;
For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation,
He has covered me with the robe of righteousness,
As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments,
And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

Isa 11:5 Also righteousness will be the belt about His loins,
And faithfulness the belt about His waist.

Psa 132:9 Let Your priests be clothed with righteousness,
And let Your godly ones sing for joy.

When Adam and Eve were created there didn't need clothes because they did not sin they were clothed in God's righteousness but when they sinned is when they realized they were naked as they were no longer clothed in God's righteousness

Gen 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

For those in Christ- when Jesus comes He will take away our fifthly rags

Zac 3:4 He spoke and said to those who were standing before him, saying, “Remove the filthy garments from him.” Again he said to him, “See, I have taken your iniquity away from you and will clothe you with festal robes.”

Which is why before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ washing our robes is the same as those who do God's commandments because those will be clothed in God's righteousness


Rev 3:5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Rev 22:14
New International Version
Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.


New King James Version
Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
 
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Part 2
Also, the difference in the letter and spirit of the law can be found in the criminal code in most countries where you can be charged with conspiracy to commit a crime, whether murder or stealing or any other crime under the criminal code.

Having explained the Letter and Spirit of the law, we can now move on to examine what occurred in the Garden.

From Genesis 3:6 “And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”

The Tenth Commandment

From the above quote, we see that Eve coveted or lusted after the fruit when “she saw that the tree was good for food, and “it was pleasant to the eyes” as well as “a tree to be desired to make one wise.” Eve coveted God’s fruit and broke the tenth commandment which says “17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbor’s.” (Exodus 20:17)

Eve did not only covet the fruit of God, but she also wanted the knowledge which belonged to God, which is the knowledge of Good and Evil. Adam and Eve sinfully lusted after what was not theirs and sinfully desired to be like God themselves. Even though they were tempted and deceived by the Serpent, which is the devil and Satan, to take the fruit and eat, we also learn from James, that every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his lust and enticed. James 1:13-15 “13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.” So before Satan’s deception, he had probably observed their own desires of the fruit before hatching his plan to cause their fall.

Coveteousness or the sin of lust is the primary basis of all other sins committed by man. In Romans 7, Paul states that he was first convicted of sin, the sin of lust by the law, which said Thou shalt not covet. It is from covetousness that people steal, kill, and commit adultery. It is from coveteousness that we find greed or selfishness, envy, and jealousy. We fall into the sin of covetousness or lust when we are not content with what our Creator God has already given us. 1 Timothy 66 “But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. 9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.” When we show discontent, we become ungrateful to God, who has provided us with everything and also tells us to be anxious about nothing but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, we should make our requests be made known to Him. (Philippians 4:6)


Adam and Eve were not content with all the fruit trees of the Garden of Eden, which God had given them to eat for food. They became blinded in their lust and desire for the fruit and knowledge of God and thus broke the tenth commandment, which says Thou shalt not covet.

The Second Commandment

From Colossians 3, we learn that coveteousness is idolatry, therefore by breaking the tenth commandment, Adam and Eve automatically broke the second commandment, which speaks of idolatry. Paul states in Colossians 3, “Put to death, therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.”

How is covetousness idolatry someone might ask? It is easy to see how Adam and Eve were blinded by desire and lust for the fruit of God. The fruit became the object of desire and attention. Anything that becomes our object of extreme admiration, love, desire, and attention is an idol. It becomes an idol because it replaces the role of God in our lives. As creation and children of God, He must be our object of admiration and desire and worhsip. Adam and Eve became blinded to everything else God had provided for them in the Garden, and their only focus and object of desire became the fruit of God and the knowledge of good and evil. The second commandment states “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.” (Exodus 20:4-6).

God considers anyone who commits idolatry to hate him. Most Christians know that idolotry in the form of bowing down an object is a sin. However, many of us are oblivious to the more critical aspect of committing spiritual idolatry when we make other objects or entities the center of our desire or attention or admiration. It can be our children, wives or loved ones, favorite artiste, or a coveted position or any inanimate object.

A perfect example of how coveteousness leads to idolatry is the fall of Lucifer or Satan, which found in Isaiah 14: 12 “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.”



Satan, formerly Lucifer, a creation of God, coveted the throne of God and also wanted to be worshipped like God. He was a beautifully created mighty angel who covered the throne of God (anointed cherub). His was not satisfied with his position in heaven and desire to be like God. His desire, selfishness, and greed blinded him to all the gifts God had already endowed him. His selfishness shows in verse above where everything was about him, I, I, I, I, I…..5 I’s, he failed to see anything else but the throne of God in his sight. This desire led Lucifer to rebel against God, causing him to be cast out of heaven and become Satan, the adversery. He is the chief Idolator who desires worship and control everything else, and now he’s deceived fallen human race to worship him instead of our Creator God. The reason why we worship God is that He is our Creator and provider in all things. However, when we commit idolatry, we worship the creation instead of the Creator himself. Adam and Eve committed idolatry because the object of their desire and worship become the fruit of God instead of God, their Creator, who gave them everything.

The First Commandment

Whenever we commit idolatry, we automatically break the first commandment which states that “thou shalt have no other gods before me” (Exodus 20:3)

By listening to the Serpent, Adam and Eve put their faith in Satan, the god of this world, instead of the Lord, who made Heaven and Earth and created them in His image and provided them everything. They put another god ahead of their Creator; they chose another god. Moreover, through unbelief Adam also put himself before God, desiring to be wise “like God,” knowing good and evil. He put the Serpent, his Wife, and Himself before God. Triple error!

The Third Commandment

The third commandment states, “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.” God’s name (YHVH) is Holy and reflects his character. He is the Lord, our Provider (Jireh), our Shalom (Peace), He is Lord Almighty (El Shaddai), He’s Healer (Rapha), Most High God (El Elyon), etc., etc., the characteristics of God are innumerable.

When we take God’s name in vain, we fail to acknowledge God for who he is. When we take God’s name in vain, we treat God, his Word, or his work in the world in a way that demeans him and robs him of his infinite glory. Adam and Eve took the name of God in vain when they portrayed their Creator to be mean and ungenerous. “And the woman said unto the serpent; We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.”


God was generous as He provided Adam and Eve with all the fruit trees in the garden and only left one to himself. However, Eve portrayed the Lord as a wicked Father who even did not want them to touch his fruit. They mischaracterized God in front of Satan, who capitalized on it to deceive her.

The Fifth Commandment

The fifth commandment states that “Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.” (Exodus 20:12) When Adam and Eve broke the third commandment taking the name of the Lord in Vain, they dishonored their Father and Creator in front of the Serpent. God never told them not to touch of the fruit of the tree, by mentioning that Eve portrayed God to be a wicked Father who did not want His children even to touch his fruit. As a result of that, their days in the land (garden of Eden) were not long but cut short. Even though Adam and Eve lived long, their lives were full of toil and hardship due to their sin.

The Ninth Commandment

“Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.” (Exodus 20:16) As a result of using God’s name in vain, Adam and Eve also bore false witness to God. Adam and Eve misquoted their father as God never told them even not to touch the fruit. As witnesses of God, we have to be witnesses to the truth. Whenever we misquote, misinterpret, or misrepresent any portion of God’s Word, we bear false witness to God and become false witnesses or false prophets, which is sin.

The Six Commandment

“Thou shalt do no murder.” (Exodus 20:13) Adam and Eve brought death into the world by their act of eating the fruit of the tree. First, Adam had to kill a lamb, then later, Cain murdered Abel, etc.

The Seventh Command ent

“Thou shalt not commit adultery.” (Exodus 20:14) God’s children, Adam and Eve, were also the bride of God. From Isaiah 54, scripture tells us that “For thy Maker is thine husband.” Being the wife of God, Adam and Eve should have been faithful to God, their husband. However, by listening to Satan, they entertained another entity and listened to the commands of another ‘man’ who was not their husband and became unfaithful committing adultery spiritually against God. The Serpent, Satan, who is the adversary of God, had his way with God’s bride. How does that make God look? Very very bad and very weak. Whenever we listen to another entity besides our Creator God, we commit adultery or fornication.



Adam and Eve, therefore, lusted after another, the word of the Serpent and his ways, and by eating a piece of the forbidden fruit, they violated the seventh commandment. Whenever we forsake the Word of God and follow after commandments outside the Word of God, we commit adultery or fornication, which the Bible in the book Revelation says will be the greatest sin of the church.

The Eighth Commandment

“Thou shalt not steal.” (Exodus 20:15) By eating from God’s tree, Adam and Eve stole from God. They intended to take the knowledge that belonged to God. Adam and Eve became thieves when they ate God’s fruit, violating the eighth commandment.

The Fourth Commandment

The final commandment Adam and Eve broke was the fourth commandment, the seventh-day Sabbath commandment. The commandment to keep the Seventh-day day Holy, like all the other nine commandments, has a literal interpretation and a spiritual element to it. The commandment states the following: “8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it, thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days, the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it.” (Exodus 20:8-11) It is the longest commandment covering four verses.

The reason God commanded us to keep holy the Sabbath day is stated in verse 11, pointing towards His six-day creation work and Yahweh’s position as the Creator or Maker of Heavens and the Earth. The reason we worship Yahweh is that He Created us as stated in Psalm 95, “O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker.” (Psalms 95:6)

The Word Sabbath contains the name of our father ABBA; it is the day of our father. Abba in Hebrew stands for foundation, Source, sustainer, protector, all characteristics of God (Strong's Hebrew: 1. אָב (ab) -- father). The entire planet originated from God, which makes him the foundation of everything. Everything comes from God, which makes him the Source. He sustains and upholds everything that comes out of his mouth, which makes him Sustainer and Protector.



When we give Him reverence and worship by obeying his Word, we affirm His role as the Creator, Foundation, Source, Sustainer, and Protector of our lives. Adam and Eve instead gave reverence to the Serpent and followed his word against the Word of God. Adam and Eve, in effect, gave the role of Creator, Foundation, Source, Sustainer and Protector to the Serpent and thus broke the Sabbath Commandment, which shows that Yahweh is our Abba Father.

That is a long piece, but we can see from the preceding that Adam and Eve’s sin of disobeying God’s command not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was very grievous in the sight of the Lord and was not simply the eating of a forbidden fruit. The sin led God to drive them out of the garden of Eden and away from the tree of life.

If the Ten Commandments were in existence from the Garden of Eden, then it is still applicable today and was not only given to the Jews on Mount Sinai. It is the Righteousness of God from the beginning of the world; it is the righteousness of God in heaven; it is the righteousness of God now and will be the Righteousness of God in heaven and earth made new. Do not be deceived by anyone who says God has changed any part of it or removed any part of it. God does not change; He is the same yesterday today and forever. Amen!

revelationbygraceministries.wordpress.com

The Garden of Eden and the Ten Commandments

Many Christians, including myself a while ago, believe that God first made His Ten Commandments known on mount Sinai. However, in this blog post, we are going to show that God ‘covertly&#8217…
revelationbygraceministries.wordpress.com
revelationbygraceministries.wordpress.com
I am posting this so I don't forget to read this thread. Looks like it might be interesting SabbathBlessings, thanks for posting
 
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