Supersessionism and Antisemitism

[BobRyan]

I'm saying that for Noah, what was clean to sacrifice had NO RELATIONSHIP to what was clean to eat.

And your proof for that speculation?

Recall that Noah could not even know about clean/unclean without reading Leviticus 11 or knowing about its teaching. Moses' readers when reading about those terms in Genesis 7 and 9 would have to turn to Lev 11 to have it defined for them.

Moses does not indicate that Noah was doing as you speculate. He only gives us Lev 11 for the definition of the terms.

so... I am going to stick with the Bible on this one.

 

[BobRyan]

Any time the 613 conflict with the Noahide covenant, the 613 take precedence, as a New Covenant overrides an old one so long as both parties agree.

both parties? who would that be?

God and Israel.

New Covenant "if Israel agrees"?

Are you saying Christians cannot be under the New Covenant? ... again?

 

[BobRyan]

"Now that we have the Bible" we know that Israel was set apart."

It was.. .but you said it was set apart in having access to the Bible.... of course now... we all have access to the Bible and worship the one true God. That is no longer a unique condition for Israel.

 

[Open Heart]

And your proof for that speculation?

The following were true at the same time:
1. He was to sacrifice only clean animals.
2. Although originally he was vegetarian (as mankind was from the time of Adam) after the flood God gave him ALL THINGS that moved on the earth for food. Nothing was mentioned of clean/unclean.

You look at those to simultaneous things, and you can see that the rules of which animals for sacrifice had nothing to do with the rules for which animals he could eat.

 

[Open Heart]

New Covenant "if Israel agrees"?

The New Covenant: when we turn to God in belief, repentance, and baptism, we are agreeing to the New Covenant.

This New Covenant does not REPLACE the Mosaic Covenant, since Israel did not agree to any replacement.

 

[BobRyan]

The New Covenant: when we turn to God in belief, repentance, and baptism, we are agreeing to the New Covenant.

This New Covenant does not REPLACE the Mosaic Covenant, since Israel did not agree to any replacement.

The nation covenant with Israel - has value "as Paul points out in Romans 3" in that they have the Word of God "the oracles of God".

But now.. they are no longer God's evangelists. The entire nation only existed for the sake of evangelism "God blesses us so that ..." what?

Psalms 67:7 "May God bless us still, so that all the ends of the earth will fear him."

 

[Open Heart]

But now.. they are no longer God's evangelists. The entire nation only existed for the sake of evangelism "God blesses us so that ..." what?

Evangelists for what? Please be specific.

And why do you say we existed only for evangelization? That's so not true. We exist as a blessing to Abraham.

 

[BobRyan]

Evangelists for what? Please be specific.

And why do you say we existed only for evangelization? That's so not true. We exist as a blessing to Abraham.

Already answered in the post before yours

The nation covenant with Israel - has value "as Paul points out in Romans 3" in that they have the Word of God "the oracles of God".

But now.. they are no longer God's evangelists. The entire nation only existed for the sake of evangelism "God blesses us so that ..." what?

Psalms 67:7 "May God bless us still, so that all the ends of the earth will fear him."

Psalms 67:7 "May God bless us still, so that all the ends of the earth will fear him."

Isaiah 45:22 "Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other."


A. Is 42:6-7 Israel “a light to the nations” Is 49:6 so my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth (Acts 13:46-47)

B. Is 45:22-23 Turn to Me and be saved ALL the ends of the Earth…that to Me EVERY knee should bow

C. 2Chron 6:32-33 Dedication of Solomon’s temple – prayer for gentiles prayer for their worship at the temple who are not Jews who are still among other nations 1Kings 8:41-43 “That ALL people may fear Thee AS do Thy people”

D. Ps 67:ALL God blesses Israel to reach all the ends of the earth – that all should fear Him

E. Deut 10:18 God loves Gentile Nations

F. God’s salvation and glory to be proclaimed among the nations – they are to come before Him … worship the Lord in Holy Array 1Chron 16:23-31

G. Zech 8:20-23 Nations will come to the Lord’s House in prayer to seek His favor

H. Micah 4:2 Nations will come and say “come let us go up to the mountain of the Lord…that He may teach us His ways that we may walk in HIS paths”

I. Hence even in Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath...shall ALL MANKIND come before Me and worship" - in the New heavens and New Earth.

 

[Open Heart]

Already answered in the post before yours

If you are using evangelists as another word to mean oracles of God, I would remind you that God has a new message he wants spread -- the gospel. Israel is still spreading the same message of ethical monotheism that it has always spread.

 

[Open Heart]

Already answered in the post before yours

If you are using evangelists as another word to mean oracles of God, I would remind you that God has a new message he wants spread -- the gospel. Israel is still spreading the same message of ethical monotheism that it has always spread.

 

[Open Heart]

Already answered in the post before yours

If you are using evangelists as another word to mean oracles of God, I would remind you that God has a new message he wants spread -- the gospel. Israel is still spreading the same message of ethical monotheism that it has always spread.

 

[Open Heart]

But now.. they are no longer God's evangelists.

If you are using evangelists as another word to mean oracles of God, I would remind you that God has a new message he wants spread -- the gospel. Israel is still spreading the same message of ethical monotheism that it has always spread.

 

[BobRyan]

If you are using evangelists as another word to mean oracles of God, I would remind you that God has a new message he wants spread -- the gospel. Israel is still spreading the same message of ethical monotheism that it has always spread.

God so Loved the WORLD that He gave... not "just the Jews" -- that has been "the message"... the "good news"

Already answered in the post before yours

Psalms 67:7 "May God bless us still, so that all the ends of the earth will fear him."

Isaiah 45:22 "Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other."


A. Is 42:6-7 Israel “a light to the nations” Is 49:6 so my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth (Acts 13:46-47)

B. Is 45:22-23 Turn to Me and be saved ALL the ends of the Earth…that to Me EVERY knee should bow

C. 2Chron 6:32-33 Dedication of Solomon’s temple – prayer for gentiles prayer for their worship at the temple who are not Jews who are still among other nations 1Kings 8:41-43 “That ALL people may fear Thee AS do Thy people”

D. Ps 67:ALL God blesses Israel to reach all the ends of the earth – that all should fear Him

E. Deut 10:18 God loves Gentile Nations

F. God’s salvation and glory to be proclaimed among the nations – they are to come before Him … worship the Lord in Holy Array 1Chron 16:23-31

G. Zech 8:20-23 Nations will come to the Lord’s House in prayer to seek His favor

H. Micah 4:2 Nations will come and say “come let us go up to the mountain of the Lord…that He may teach us His ways that we may walk in HIS paths”

I. Hence even in Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath...shall ALL MANKIND come before Me and worship" - in the New heavens and New Earth.

The "Gospel" or merely "ethical monotheism"??

F. God’s salvation and glory to be proclaimed among the nations – they are to come before Him … worship the Lord in Holy Array 1Chron 16:23-31

G. Zech 8:20-23 Nations will come to the Lord’s House in prayer to seek His favor

H. Micah 4:2 Nations will come and say “come let us go up to the mountain of the Lord…that He may teach us His ways that we may walk in HIS paths”

I. Hence even in Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath...shall ALL MANKIND come before Me and worship" - in the New heavens and New Earth.[/QUOTE]


Is that the "Gospel" or merely "ethical monotheism"...

I. Hence even in Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath...shall ALL MANKIND come before Me and worship" - in the New heavens and New Earth.[/QUOTE]

The "Gospel" or merely "ethical monotheism"??

F. God’s salvation and glory to be proclaimed among the nations – they are to come before Him … worship the Lord in Holy Array 1Chron 16:23-31

G. Zech 8:20-23 Nations will come to the Lord’s House in prayer to seek His favor

H. Micah 4:2 Nations will come and say “come let us go up to the mountain of the Lord…that He may teach us His ways that we may walk in HIS paths”

I. Hence even in Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath...shall ALL MANKIND come before Me and worship" - in the New


======================================
It is "The Gospel" -- "preached to us JUST as it was to them also" Hebrews 4:2

 

[Open Heart]

God so Loved the WORLD that He gave... not "just the Jews" -- that has been "the message"... the "good news"

It is absolutely true that God loves all of mankind -- enough that he sent his only Son to die for the world. But he has an special love for Abraham, and because of that, for all of Israel. That does NOT mean he loves Israel more, but he certainly loves Israel in a qualitatively different manner, since he has set Israel apart forever.

 

[BobRyan]

but he certainly loves Israel in a qualitatively different manner, since he has set Israel apart forever.

Christ explains it this way in John 4 "salvation is of the Jews".

That is why in Rev 12 it is the church of God - in the form of the Jewish church - that gives birth to Christ.

 

[Open Heart]

That is why in Rev 12 it is the church of God - in the form of the Jewish church - that gives birth to Christ.

The woman clothed in the sun is Mary, not the church. The Church did not give birth to Christ. It's the other way around -- Christ established the Church.

 

[BobRyan]

The woman clothed in the sun is Mary, not the church.

no it is the Church .. in this case the OT nation-church of Israel. As Jesus said "Salvation is of the Jews" John 4.

Which is specifically a reference to the fact that the Messiah comes from the Jewish nation. Since there is actually nothing else salvific for the world about Jews other than that.

Hence when efforts to are made to exalt Mary as the 'Mother of Jesus' - Jesus Himself says "on the contrary".

Luke 11
28 But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.”

The people of God.
The church of God --- in Luke 11 before the cross - Jews who followed scripture.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The New Covenant: when we turn to God in belief, repentance, and baptism, we are agreeing to the New Covenant.

This New Covenant does not REPLACE the Mosaic Covenant, since Israel did not agree to any replacement.

No people can be under two covenants. So to choose the Mosaic covenant is to not choose the New Covenant. Big mistake IMHO.

The Mosaic Covenant (Ie Old Covenant) does save anyone. So that is a BIG mistake.

But God said that the Jewish people did not believe Him when He was here and still do not believe. That is to their own detrement. He is right there and they would rather go back to the Old that saves no one.

 

[Open Heart]

No people can be under two covenants. So to choose the Mosaic covenant is to not choose the New Covenant. Big mistake IMHO.

Says who??????? I think you are just making this up.

 

[Open Heart]

The Mosaic Covenant (Ie Old Covenant) does save anyone. So that is a BIG mistake.

Of course it doesn't. It was never intended to give eternal life. The reward of the Mosaic covenant was the Promised Land.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Says who??????? I think you are just making this up.

Hebrews 8


1Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. 3For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. 4Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “SEE,” He says, “THAT YOU MAKE all things ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN WHICH WAS SHOWN YOU ON THE MOUNTAIN.” 6But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.



A New Covenant

7For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

8For finding fault with them, He says,
“BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD,
WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT
WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;

9NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS
ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND
TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT;
FOR THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT,
AND I DID NOT CARE FOR THEM, SAYS THE LORD.

10“FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS,
AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS.
AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD,
AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

11“AND THEY SHALL NOT TEACH EVERYONE HIS FELLOW CITIZEN,
AND EVERYONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, ‘KNOW THE LORD,’
FOR ALL WILL KNOW ME,
FROM THE LEAST TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.

12“FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES,
AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE.”

13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.